Tiers, Lockdowns & Vaccinations

[@Lee]

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

This is a car forum.

Then why bother wasting your own time in the non car discussions in the non car related sub fora?

As for the rest, we've been over that many times. I have, if you recall from those many times, made many contributions to this site elsewhere. 

Bon soir 👍

[J.R.]

Because I get to see the viewpoints of others and I sometimes contribute, hardly a waste of time.

 

I genuinely regret that I was not a user of the forum back in the days when I could have read your considerable contributions which you once took the time to explain to me, I think its such a shame that you limit your contributions now in the way you do, I do see and appreciate some of your non political postings in the joke section.

[KenONeill]

9 hours ago, john999boy said:

there are a lot of political undertones in some of your posts

I practice a lot of self-censorship on this forum, particularly in this thread, but I do tend to agree more with @Lee than with the names he cites.

[mandp]

52 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I practice a lot of self-censorship on this forum, particularly in this thread, but I do tend to agree more with @Lee than with the names he cites.

The name of this thread....

`Tiers`.....which we currently don't have.

`Lockdowns`....which we are currently not in.

`Vaccinations`...yeah very high on the agenda currently. Lets talk about them...the vaccinations and please keep away from endless negative political rants.

I'm having my booster on Sunday.

 

[edbostan]

I have had two vaccinations and have had covid last year so according to statistics with the Pfizer jab I am 94% immune. Is this jab a true vaccine as I have had a pneumonia jab which lasts a life time, tetanus jab last 10 years and a shingles jab which is a one off? I am not an anti-vaxxer but it sounds suspicious that the covid jab remains effective only for months not years.

[@Lee]

25 minutes ago, edbostan said:

I have had two vaccinations and have had covid last year so according to statistics with the Pfizer jab I am 94% immune. Is this jab a true vaccine as I have had a pneumonia jab which lasts a life time, tetanus jab last 10 years and a shingles jab which is a one off? I am not an anti-vaxxer but it sounds suspicious that the covid jab remains effective only for months not years.

I think you answered your own question in there, Ed with your Tetanus jab lasting ten years. Vaccine efficacy can wane over time plus new variations/ strains. 
e.g. new flu jabs yearly. 
One of the four approved vaccines in the UK only needs one dose (Janssen/ Johnson & Johnson) I don't know if that requires a booster jab.

Edited 21 October, 2021 by @Lee

[KenONeill]

38 minutes ago, edbostan said:

Is this jab a true vaccine

Did you happen to notice the bit where other mutating virii (eg influenza) tend to be refreshed annually?

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, mandp said:

Lets talk about them...the vaccinations and please keep away from endless negative political rants.

I'm having my booster on Sunday.

 

Ah, OK. I understand. Let's talk about the good bits but bury our heads in the sand when it comes to the bad bits such as having the worst public health failure ever. Cool.
Shame those who died unnecessarily  didn't just learn to live with the virus like they were told, eh.

Quote

The UK's failure to do more to stop Covid spreading early in the pandemic was one of the country's worst public health failures, a report by MPs says.

The government approach - backed by its scientists - was to try to manage the situation and in effect achieve herd immunity by infection, it said.

This led to a delay in introducing the first lockdown, costing thousands of lives, the MPs found.

But their report highlighted successes too, including the vaccination rollout.

It described the approach to vaccination - from the research and development through to the rollout of the jabs - as "one of the most effective initiatives in UK history".

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58876089

Good luck with your booster. My dad's having his tomorrow.

[skomaz]

12 hours ago, @Lee said:

Even Skomaz and I facepalm each others replies once in a while but at least we engage. This is a forum for discussion after all.

I forgot to add; even the Commons report found the Governments response was one of the UK's 'worst ever' public health failures.
 

 

Indeed we do engage Lee - usually from different viewpoints with me trying to temper and bring some balance to the ever present political undertones   😃.

 

Which reminds me...   'one of the UK's worst ever public health failures'...   yes - to a pandemic of a type never seen before in this country in recent / modern times -  so it's probably not surprising that things didn't go as well as we all might have wanted?

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, @Lee said:

Ah, OK. I understand. Let's talk about the good bits but bury our heads in the sand when it comes to the bad bits such as having the worst public health failure ever. Cool.

 

I believe the point being made was stick to the title of the thread...   we've all been asked to do that on many occasions previously by both posters and moderators when threads wander off-topic.

[Chorlton]

37 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Indeed we do engage Lee - usually from different viewpoints with me trying to temper and bring some balance to the ever present political undertones   😃.

 

Which reminds me...   'one of the UK's worst ever public health failures'...   yes - to a pandemic of a type never seen before in this country in recent / modern times -  so it's probably not surprising that things didn't go as well as we all might have wanted?

But not unprecedented in other countries  in recent times, I'm thinking SARS and MERS.  Additionally, I believe the UK Govt carried out some pandemic preparedness exercises, based on an outbreak of an avian influenza variant, which they presumably learned some things from.

 

Even more damning is the fact that they could see the approach of the virus via other countries, and still very little was done initially. 

 

So whilst the Govt cannot be expected to have forseen every nuance of the pandemic, they cannot claim complete ignorance about what they should have done and how things would pan out.  That is unforgivable.  So, yes, the early response to the virus was a horrendous public health failure resulting in many deaths.

[@Lee]

37 minutes ago, Chorlton said:

But not unprecedented in other countries  in recent times, I'm thinking SARS and MERS.  Additionally, I believe the UK Govt carried out some pandemic preparedness exercises, based on an outbreak of an avian influenza variant, which they presumably learned some things from.

 

Even more damning is the fact that they could see the approach of the virus via other countries, and still very little was done initially. 

 

 

There was exercise Cygnus and exercise Alice. Alice was using the MERS as a model but an FOI request found that was hidden from Parliament.
The same things for flu such as masks and handwashing would have also been effective against Covid. It's almost like saying we got the wrong type of leaves on the line! 

Yup, there was a few weeks warning from Italy. Even parents could see what was coming and pulled their kids out of school before the Government had the genius idea of closing schools. Oh, and five skipped COBRA meetings. 

Let's not forget, this is their own report.
 

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, Chorlton said:

But not unprecedented in other countries  in recent times, I'm thinking SARS and MERS.  Additionally, I believe the UK Govt carried out some pandemic preparedness exercises, based on an outbreak of an avian influenza variant, which they presumably learned some things from.

 

Even more damning is the fact that they could see the approach of the virus via other countries, and still very little was done initially. 

 

So whilst the Govt cannot be expected to have forseen every nuance of the pandemic, they cannot claim complete ignorance about what they should have done and how things would pan out.  That is unforgivable.  So, yes, the early response to the virus was a horrendous public health failure resulting in many deaths.

 

59 minutes ago, @Lee said:

There was exercise Cygnus and exercise Alice. Alice was using the MERS as a model but an FOI request found that was hidden from Parliament.
The same things for flu such as masks and handwashing would have also been effective against Covid. It's almost like saying we got the wrong type of leaves on the line! 

Yup, there was a few weeks warning from Italy. Even parents could see what was coming and pulled their kids out of school before the Government had the genius idea of closing schools. Oh, and five skipped COBRA meetings. 

Let's not forget, this is their own report.
 

 

Absolutely on all counts - I agree - I was just adding some perspective that people sometimes forget...   that whilst there was MERS and SARS etc. these were primarily in other countries, so the UK had never, in over 100 years, experienced a pandemic of the same nature / extent.

 

Clearly we should all have learnt from experiences in other countries and realised what was coming down the line towards us but even that would have been nothing like the first-hand experience we now have, and that Governments (and the population generally), now and in the future, will hopefully learn from.

[@Lee]

12 minutes ago, skomaz said:

and that Governments (and the population generally), now and in the future, will hopefully learn from.

Sajid Javid's obviously not learnt anything. Yesterday he said the UK's on track for 100,000 new infections PER DAY yet they still won't enforce masks on public transport and in shops etc etc.
Surely the time to apply the brakes is before you go over the cliff rather than after it?

[mandp]

55 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Sajid Javid's obviously not learnt anything. Yesterday he said the UK's on track for 100,000 new infections PER DAY yet they still won't enforce masks on public transport and in shops etc etc.
Surely the time to apply the brakes is before you go over the cliff rather than after it?

Whilst I agree 100% with that last line, still nowt about `Tiers`, nowt about `Lockdowns` and nowt about Vaccinations.

Should we not have a new thread where all this negative political bile can be better placed?

[skomaz]

40 minutes ago, mandp said:

Whilst I agree 100% with that last line, still nowt about `Tiers`, nowt about `Lockdowns` and nowt about Vaccinations.

Should we not have a new thread where all this negative political bile can be better placed?

 

Fair point - the post / point could easily have been made starting at 'The UK's on track...' etc.

[@Lee]

49 minutes ago, mandp said:

Whilst I agree 100% with that last line, still nowt about `Tiers`, nowt about `Lockdowns` and nowt about Vaccinations.

Should we not have a new thread where all this negative political bile can be better placed?

The report I linked to for you from the BBC literally mentioned 'lockdown' in the third sentence. 
I do find it peculiar that you haven't been able to defend a single policy of the Government during the pandemic and would rather deflect but carry on with your facepalm reactions if it makes you feel better  

[skomaz]

32 minutes ago, @Lee said:

The report I linked to for you from the BBC literally mentioned 'lockdown' in the third sentence. 
I do find it peculiar that you haven't been able to defend a single policy of the Government during the pandemic and would rather deflect but carry on with your facepalm reactions if it makes you feel better  

 

Perhaps he doesn't feel the need to or want to, as is his prerogative?  I believe you have used that  same prerogative in other threads, as have many other posters (including probably myself on occasion) 👍

[@Lee]

3 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Perhaps he doesn't feel the need to or want to, as is his prerogative?  I believe you have used that  same prerogative in other threads, as have many other posters (including probably myself on occasion) 👍

Small difference; I don't go around facepalming everything people say without discussing it  

[@Lee]

At least little Latvia's got the right idea. The UK should be doing the same IMO before the car gets to the cliff. Patrick Vallance said 'go hard, go early' back in September.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-booster-shots-to-begin-next-week-says-javid-rz08ptjm5

Quote

Latvia has announced a month-long Covid-19 lockdown after an unprecedented surge in infections, becoming the first country in Europe to reimpose far-reaching restrictions amid a new wave of cases in countries across the continent.

The Baltic country has one of the highest rates of new Covid cases relative to population in the world, according to the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), after successfully keeping the virus at bay for months.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/20/latvia-enters-month-long-covid-lockdown-as-fourth-wave-breaks
 

What was it they said about protecting the economy?
 

Edited 21 October, 2021 by @Lee

[skomaz]

2 hours ago, @Lee said:

Small difference; I don't go around facepalming everything people say without discussing it  

 

They are still allowed to 'rate' your post though regardless...   👍

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

They are still allowed to 'rate' your post though regardless...   👍

Perhaps I should go and rate their posts in return then. Mind you, last time I did that sort of thing, I was asked to remove my reactions. 

[gadgetman]

On 21/10/2021 at 11:35, @Lee said:

I think you answered your own question in there, Ed with your Tetanus jab lasting ten years. Vaccine efficacy can wane over time plus new variations/ strains. 
e.g. new flu jabs yearly. 
One of the four approved vaccines in the UK only needs one dose (Janssen/ Johnson & Johnson) I don't know if that requires a booster jab.

Tetanus is no longer given as boosters. Certainly not when I asked. Apparently its now for life? 

 

As for the lockdown part, no one wants that despite what some may claim. 

 

Masks are quite a sensible option, but only work if the majority wear them to prevent passing anything they have on to others. 

 

Quite telling the countries that have dropped them are seeing cases stay high. 

 

Before Sweden is mentioned they look great using per million as they has a small population. Change to per 10k or per 100k and suddenly they look extremely bad. 

[Ootohere]

Some want lockdown and they are people who want lockdown no matter that some might say nobody does.    Some want masks worn in public and private places like in Scotland for the next 3 weeks.   Some want the Government to own any spike that comes from COP26 being held in Glasgow.   Actually have the politicians that ignore the risks having to deal with breaking the news of the deaths of people's relatives personally in each case where it came from the 'come on down' roll up for this Spreader Event. 

Edited 25 October, 2021 by roottoot

[KenONeill]

55 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

Before Sweden is mentioned they look great using per million as they has a small population. Change to per 10k or per 100k and suddenly they look extremely bad.

Makes no difference; these "statistics" are produced by multiplying the actual number by a "required factor" to produce "cases per 100_000" (or whatever). I know of one village of 200 people where there was one case. The "official statistics" that week said that this village had "500 cases per 100_000 people".