Out in the snow

[AndyC]

Took my Karoq out in the snow for the first time today. It was useless. No grip at all. Traction control light flashing madly and wheels scrabbling all over the place. Defeated by a gentle slope my old Yeti would have sailed up. OK my Karoq isn't 4x4 but I expected better. Could the Bridgestone tyres be part of the cause? Just as wsell we don't get much of this weather.

 

Andy

[VRS_White_Hatch]

Its all about the tyres. 

[Rsrob]

It's the Bridgestone tyres they are crap In the cold weather and on snow my dad got them on his SE L 1.5 DSG 

[CJJE]

Blame Skoda Marketing for not offering the choice of All-Season tyres on new cars. Guess they must get the Bridgestones at a hefty discount??

[Tim1631]

29 minutes ago, AndyC said:

Took my Karoq out in the snow for the first time today. It was useless. No grip at all. Traction control light flashing madly and wheels scrabbling all over the place. Defeated by a gentle slope my old Yeti would have sailed up. OK my Karoq isn't 4x4 but I expected better. Could the Bridgestone tyres be part of the cause? Just as wsell we don't get much of this weather.

 

Andy

 

Swap it for a Yeti? 

[Ootohere]

Just not a Yeti with the same tyres as are on the Karoq.

[DSL]

56 minutes ago, VRS_White_Hatch said:

Its all about the tyres. 

Agreed!!  Out & about with proper winters on and the traction control light has stayed off, to the point that I’ve no idea where it is.  And that’s on loose snow, compacted snow, rough ice and ice that is as slick as a slick thing that’s had extra slippiness added. I don’t think it’s the 4x4 side as SWMBO’s jazz, also on winter Contis, has been just as good.  

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, AndyC said:

Took my Karoq out in the snow for the first time today. It was useless. No grip at all. Traction control light flashing madly and wheels scrabbling all over the place. Defeated by a gentle slope my old Yeti would have sailed up. OK my Karoq isn't 4x4 but I expected better. Could the Bridgestone tyres be part of the cause? Just as wsell we don't get much of this weather.

 

Andy

 

Its not the make of tyres, it is low rolling resistance Eco summer tyres

In blunt terms they are designed to improve mpg and reduce CO2 in WLTP tests at +23c

 

Basic laws of physics, simply too hard for cold weather as not designed for it.  You will find wet grip falls off drastically below  +10c with Eco summer tyres.  They are even harder than standard summer tyres so even worse in the cold.

 

Since Yeti was on sale, two things have happened : Skoda has moved to low rolling resistance summer tyres as default (harder than old school summer tyres): and all season tyres have been introduced (ideal temperature range -5c to +25c (and ok for approx -12c to +32c) so latest summer tyres can be optimised for higher temperature range (about +8c to 38c)

 

You either need all season tyres (if keeping them on all year), or change to winter tyres November - late March/April

 

 

Yesterday morning I also went out (about 6cm new snow), a few had slid to side of road on gentle slopes.  With winter tyres (and 2wd) no problem on much steeper slopes, actually realised I was doing 45mph at one point on a snow covered B winding road as it felt so sure footed.  But with summer tyres would probably slid in ditch at half the speed.

 

 

Edited 25 January, 2021 by SurreyJohn

[DSL]

PS Pic of car on driveway yesterday when it was -6c.  Then it was positively grippy cf when the compacted snow turned to ice, then it melted slightly then froze solid.  Snow is never really an issue for me, it’s the ice that makes things interesting.   

 

[Phil-E]

It's all about the tyres.

 

I'd highly recommend some all seasons next time around.

 

A 2WD with all seasons or winters will out perform a 4WD on summers on anything icy or snowy.

 

After all 4x0=0. No grip on any of the tyres still means no grip.

 

I've passed 4x4s in the snow in my Octavia before. Wheels spinning and sliding around and I just drove passed like I was on dry tarmac 🤣😂

[DSL]

Bit of an oversimplification, it depends on the 4x4 and the nut behind the wheel.  I’ve driven Disco3s and 4s in deep snow with either mud tyres or AT tyres, deffo not winter tyres, with no problems.  Indeed the limiting factor was not the grip, it was whether the car was getting beached as the snow was getting so deep.  Not all 4x4s are born equal. 

[Delanor]

I needed to go out in my Scout (Bridgestone tyres) and got into some deeper snow in our rural lanes so into Snow Mode and it comfortably went up hill and down Dale and  after owning  4WD Shoguns, various Land Rovers, Ford`s, Toyota`s and Suzuki`s the Karoq felt extremely able - I did consider whether I really needed a 4WD when I bought the Karoq but happy now that I bought the Scout. 

 

I will add many drivers today just do not know how to drive in snow correctly due to the lack of experience they seem to think that gunning the engine and spinning the wheels is the way to get moving wrong - good throttle/clutch /gearbox control is best although any rear drive car with big fat tyres will struggle (note how many BMW`s suffer) and a lot does depend on the actual vehicle, my RX-8 with  rear wheel drive, fat tyres and light weight is absolutely hopeless in snow it will just not go in the direction you want it to hence the 4WD Karoq.

 

Just to prove my point some years ago driving in heavy snow in my MX5 (rear wheel drive but great in the snow) I had to stop going down a very slight incline due to traffic a Ford Sierra (rear wheel drive) with passengers had got stuck going up the incline on the other side of the road the engine was revving like hell wheels were  spinning but not getting anywhere then to my amazement one of the passengers got out and started throw handfuls of snow in front of the rear tyres presumably in the hope it would aid traction needless to say it didn`t help!

[Gissin]

100% all about the tyres.  I've got a stage 1 Octavia so you'd expect with all the power I'd have no grip or control but running snowtrack3's I had absolutely no issues going up a 30% hill in fairly fresh snow.  obviously you'll still need to adjust your driving accordingly 

[Delanor]

One of my first performance cars was a rear wheel drive 3 litre V6 Reliant Scimitar GTE then we had winters every year with snowfalls guaranteed - I managed to get about to work etc without any snow/all season tyres the only difference was the lower levels of traffic didn`t hinder  your progress.

 

 

[Phil-E]

I've driven for years without all seasons or winter tyres. And only once got stuck and driven through thick snow, hilly roads, back roads etc.

 

Yes you can still make progress with summer tyres if driven correctly. But after having winters and all seasons I'd never not want them again.

 

In 2018 we had booked to go to Germany as I had a job interview. And the day before I'd arranged to pick up a set of alloys for my winter tyres.

 

Was a little too late as it snowed really heavy. Drove down back country roads to pick up the wheels from some farm. Passed 3 cars crashed in ditches. And that was in a 1700kg automatic convertible with 235 wide summer tyres.

 

We then drove down south from York which took hours as there were multiple motorway closures with accidents and stuck cars etc. Ended up diverting down some tiny back country roads. But again never once got stuck or even began to loose control. Just drive steady and to the conditions.

 

The one time I got stuck was arriving at the families house in Germany and they live on a private back road that runs parallel with the main road but the access to it is up an extremely steep (30% gradient) road. Out little Peugeot 306 1.9D just couldn't make it even trying in reverse wiggling the wheels.

 

The next day we got winter tyres fitted and just drive straight up the hill with no bother.

[Delanor]

 

Snow mode can be selected when driving on slippery surfaces. Electronic assistance systems adapt to this situation straight away. The Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) allows slightly more wheelspin. As a result, snow accumulates in front of the tyres and the braking effect is increased. Traction control (TCS) allows more wheelspin so that the tyre tread grips more effectively and the gearbox selects higher gears than it normally would in the lower speed range. The accelerator reacts more smoothly and thereby prevents an undesirable increase in the amount of torque. This prevents the wheels from spinning.

 

Apparently Mr Skoda its all a waste you really only need winter tyres.

[Ootohere]

It is pretty hopeless with the tyres that are not allowing the systems to do as explained.   That being the OEM tyres that the car arrive in the UK with.

Sadly people believe they have bought a SUV, or a Crossover, even a 4x4 so they are sorted as they get the car from the dealership.

[Kenny R]

4 hours ago, Delanor said:

One of my first performance cars was a rear wheel drive 3 litre V6 Reliant Scimitar GTE then we had winters every year with snowfalls guaranteed - I managed to get about to work etc without any snow/all season tyres the only difference was the lower levels of traffic didn`t hinder  your progress.

 

 

I think everyone managed to get around during winter in the olden days, but tyre construction then was completely different to today’s fuel saving and “summer “ low profile efforts that are totally inadequate in winter conditions.

[DSL]

59 minutes ago, Delanor said:

 

Snow mode can be selected when driving on slippery surfaces. Electronic assistance systems adapt to this situation straight away. The Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) allows slightly more wheelspin. As a result, snow accumulates in front of the tyres and the braking effect is increased. Traction control (TCS) allows more wheelspin so that the tyre tread grips more effectively and the gearbox selects higher gears than it normally would in the lower speed range. The accelerator reacts more smoothly and thereby prevents an undesirable increase in the amount of torque. This prevents the wheels from spinning.

 

Apparently Mr Skoda its all a waste you really only need winter tyres.

Might well be a waste as as my 4x4 doesn’t have the selectable snow mode malarkie and is managing perfectly fine on proper snow and ice on winter tyres. I was going to look into getting the module, fitting it and getting it coded in but now not going to bother.  Not saying it’s a gimmick but it’s deffo not essential/important when it comes to winter driving.  

[SurreyJohn]

7 hours ago, Delanor said:

 

Just to prove my point some years ago driving in heavy snow in my MX5 (rear wheel drive but great in the snow) I had to stop going down a very slight incline due to traffic a Ford Sierra (rear wheel drive) with passengers had got stuck going up the incline on the other side of the road the engine was revving like hell wheels were  spinning but not getting anywhere then to my amazement one of the passengers got out and started throw handfuls of snow in front of the rear tyres presumably in the hope it would aid traction needless to say it didn`t help!

It seems with 2wd and winter tyres on DSG versions you can be as heavy footed as you like, the traction control just regulates the power.

 

I once went on an experience ride at Mercedes Brooklands, and the driver on the wet circle, he explained even though the AMG63 had about 500bhp, the traction control limited it as it slipped to about tenth of power even if you bury your right foot

 

 

[Phil-E]

When I test my all seasons the other week that certainly seemed to be the case. I test it by setting off super steady, letting it creep first and then slowly getting onto the throttle and had no wheel spin.

 

Then tested it with a heavier foot up a slight incline. There was a little bit of wheel spin but the power is regulated by the traction control. So the wheels don't spin wildly out of control with the engine bouncing off the rev counter.

 

Worked very well to be fair.

[Marchincus]

I hope this is still on topic but is the traction control use/warning light seldom seen in a Karoq?  I have a 1.5 manual and do occasionally have a little wheelspin in wet/ice, although only momentary, but never seen the dashboard light come on as it did in my Qashqai. Is it just doing its thing and not needing to completely "take over" or could it be it isn't working at all?  I hope this isn't a daft question.

Thanks

[Sanqhar]

Re winter/all season tyres whether on 2wd or 4wd.  It's not about the "going" but the "stopping" that's important.  If you can't go then you are stopped and safe (relatively). If you can't stop well you can work that out yourself.  

 

Also regarding cars being better years ago. Years ago cars were less powerful and ran on narrower, smaller wheels with more flexible higher profile tyres.  

 

Modern cars are more powerful and run on wider rims with harder lower profile tyres. That's progress.

 

tom

 

 

[Phil-E]

8 hours ago, Marchincus said:

I hope this is still on topic but is the traction control use/warning light seldom seen in a Karoq?  I have a 1.5 manual and do occasionally have a little wheelspin in wet/ice, although only momentary, but never seen the dashboard light come on as it did in my Qashqai. Is it just doing its thing and not needing to completely "take over" or could it be it isn't working at all?  I hope this isn't a daft question.

Thanks

The light should flash whenever the system intervenes. Either with wheelspin or if the ESP kicks in.

[Phil-E]

8 hours ago, Sanqhar said:

Re winter/all season tyres whether on 2wd or 4wd.  It's not about the "going" but the "stopping" that's important.  If you can't go then you are stopped and safe (relatively). If you can't stop well you can work that out yourself.  

 

Also regarding cars being better years ago. Years ago cars were less powerful and ran on narrower, smaller wheels with more flexible higher profile tyres.  

 

Modern cars are more powerful and run on wider rims with harder lower profile tyres. That's progress.

 

tom

 

 

Agreed.

 

Last winter I was driving over the hills back home. Was really thick with snow. I had to do an emergency stop coming down a hill round a slight bend at one point as there was a fallen tree in the road.

 

The ABS kicked in and obviously there was a bit of skidding but at no point did the car begin to spin or loose control.

 

And that was in a 1700kg+ convertible on 225 wide tyres.

 

Had I have been on summer tyres if have probably skidded, spun and hit the tree!