I believe (but am not an expert) that it is more about some componenets being alcohol soluable but not hydrocarbon soluable.

Using meths/acetone as a solvent will disolve different things.

 

As such it appears that ethanol vs petrol disolve different parts faster.

I'd take a guess as gaskets, hoses and seals etc in the fuel system being the primary problem.

 

Back when ULSD was first introduced there were issues with fuel pumps that had relied on the suplhur to lubricate their internals.

However here we are, with ULSD being the only fuel option for diesels.

I'm not sure who, if anyone, is saying the problem is anything other than what you've suggested there cheezemonkhai?

Never seen one of these catching fire to be honest.

 

And there are many like it where I live. There is absolutely no way of getting anything other than E10 where I live. I remember they recommended renewing/replacing petrol filters and cleaning tanks just in case, and carburettors do suffer a little, though in no greater frequency than before the introduction of E10.

 

Ethanol does not like sitting for long periods of time. I owned a 1961 VW Beetle which I had parked for two years. When cleaning the carburettor before starting it again, there was a dark green mossy goo inside the fuel bowl. It was quite hard to get rid of, but otherwise the car worked fine and started at the first try. Ethanol is known to cause issues if left sitting for long periods of time, but that's the only issue I can think of. 

10 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Just found this:

 

https://www.acea.auto/files/130329_revised_ALL_ACEA_SAAB_JAMA_E10_COMPATIBILITY.pdf

 

Via here:

 

https://www.acea.auto/publication/vehicle-compatibility-with-new-e10-b7-fuel-standards/

 

It states for the 1.3 OHC engine there is a retrofit so it can use e10 and to contact the dealer. 
I’d suggest contacting a dealer to see if it’s already on the 1.4 or if it can be purchased 👍

 

 

FWIW the 1.4 in at least some versions of the fox is an 8v (bkr)
 

 

Thanks for the help! I’ll contact a Skoda dealer and investigate further  

7 hours ago, Wino said:

I'm not sure who, if anyone, is saying the problem is anything other than what you've suggested there cheezemonkhai?

People were talking about big problems and corrosion. I probably just did 2+2=5

 

😂👍

8 hours ago, Wino said:

I'm not sure who, if anyone, is saying the problem is anything other than what you've suggested there cheezemonkhai?

Also @cheezemonkhai - Certain, all I was suggesting was issues with dissolving fuel lines and maybe gaskets.

I've just read through this thread and it's clear that it's not clear if/what could/would get damaged by E10.  I have a 2010 Yeti 1.8TSi which should be OK, but everything on .gov.uk is based on the year a car was made - not the year the engine was first designed and produced - plus every other component on it of course.  I think the 1.8TSi actually began life in 2006.

 

So:

 

On 02/09/2021 at 12:45, cheezemonkhai said:

As such it appears that ethanol vs petrol disolve different parts faster.

I'd take a guess as gaskets, hoses and seals etc in the fuel system being the primary problem.

And my question is - is there a known antidote? 

 

Can the E10 be "watered down" by occasional fills of E5?  Is there a fuel additive that would nullify the effects of the ethanol - eg Redex?  Has anyone read anywhere some sensible advice for a routine which would at least at reduce the effects of the extra ethanol?

 

(The fact that there's a disclaimer on the government website makes me think that - as with everything else - they probably haven't a clue:  "DfT and its partners will not be liable for any damage to your vehicle as a result of you using this service.")

 

 

1 hour ago, aka_pseudonym said:

I've just read through this thread and it's clear that it's not clear if/what could/would get damaged by E10.  I have a 2010 Yeti 1.8TSi which should be OK, but everything on .gov.uk is based on the year a car was made - not the year the engine was first designed and produced - plus every other component on it of course.  I think the 1.8TSi actually began life in 2006.

 

So:

 

And my question is - is there a known antidote? 

 

Can the E10 be "watered down" by occasional fills of E5?  Is there a fuel additive that would nullify the effects of the ethanol - eg Redex?  Has anyone read anywhere some sensible advice for a routine which would at least at reduce the effects of the extra ethanol?

 

(The fact that there's a disclaimer on the government website makes me think that - as with everything else - they probably haven't a clue:  "DfT and its partners will not be liable for any damage to your vehicle as a result of you using this service.")

 

 

Can't remember where I read it (much googling has been done) but I have read that if an accidental tank of E10 is used in an incompatible car, just fill it up with E5 when the time comes. No harm should (SHOULD!) come to the car. 

 

Also.... E10 (and E5) means up to 10% (5%)... 

Nothing catastrophic happens by just filling up with E10. Yes, in this part of the third world where I live there are 70 year old trucks still working all day every day with plain old carburettors, old fuel lines, neglected maintenance (only the bare minimum to keep them running) and guess what... They suffer more brake failures than they do engine fires or fuel leaks of any sort. And we have no choice, E10 is in every grade of fuel we use. In fact it is touted as beneficial because it "oxygenates" petrol and boosts its octane rating. If the base fuel is 95 RON it is theorised (by gov agencies anyway) that the 10% ethanol content elevates its rating to 97. 

 

In short, the best way to get rid of E10 is using it... no, really. That's the antidote. Burn it as quick as you possibly can, use your car. Don't leave it sitting there in the tank for months. That's it. That's what we do. 

 

Yetis were sold here too, nothing goes particularly wrong except the usual valvetrain problems which come as a result of using low octane fuels more than anything. 

 

This whole E10 scare is a first world problem if I've ever seen one. If you're a car collector with dozens or even hundreds of very valuable, rare cars that you don't have the time to move around your private racetrack or around the estate, this is actually a non-issue because you can afford the premium stuff anyway. If you're a normal citizen with normal cars using them for normal chores going to and from your normal job and doing the routine maintenance your normal car demands... relax. Just use the normal stuff.

 

"bUt gUvMinT wAnTs Me CaR oFf ThE rOaD tHaTs wHy TheY'Re sHoViNg E10 DoWn oUr ThRoAts"...

 

Set up your very own petrol refinery then.

E10 gas been available here in Germany since 2011.

 

So basically people have been filling up for 10 years with it and there's no horror stories of cars being damaged by it.

 

The difference being is that there are still 2 pumps to choose from. Either E5 95 or E10 95. So you have the choice of which to use if you have an older car.

 

Then of course you have the choice of all the premium 97+ fuels too which are all still E5.

So E10 is costing the retailers about 1.5 pence a litre less than E5 according to the AA article.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1492381/e10-fuel-changes-petrol-cost-price-aa

 

Is this being passed on  ???

 

Considering the fuel could well be giving 2 or 3 % less mpg due to its lower calorific value ?

 

Anybody on a regular commute done back to back comparisons yet in their cars ??

 

My cousin asked about using E10 and I told her not to worry as wonderful stuff.  She was only asking because her 54 plate Ka he as never felt so good.  That really is just as it should be.      My 2010 Suzuki has had 2 tank fills of E10 now, but tomorrow will be the first I will drive it and be able to check how it feels and what the average mpg is showing but that is usually 46 mpg as it does the same trips of 6 miles each way 5 or 6 days a week.  Any change then I will know. 

Edited 17 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Might be talking out of the top of my head here, But I'm sure I read somewhere that E10 froths more and therefore aerates more improving ignition.

 

I've switch to E10 in my 1.4TSI Octavia and have to say that performance is no worse and in fact I think could be marginally better and I haven't really noticed a drop in MPG. 

8 minutes ago, FrankNicklin said:

Might be talking out of the top of my head here, But I'm sure I read somewhere that E10 froths more and therefore aerates more improving ignition.

 

I've switch to E10 in my 1.4TSI Octavia and have to say that performance is no worse and in fact I think could be marginally better and I haven't really noticed a drop in MPG. 

 

The Ethanol can boost the octane rating and if one was running a bit too rich it makes the mixture a bit leaner by having more oxygen in the air/fuel mix.

 

Cars with lambda sensors should self adjust but there is always a bit of sensor/fuel mapping guessing there so it could go the right way or go the wrong way.

 

Less calorific value is a fact though.

 

It could tempt so fuel companies to buy even poorer quality fuel that might knock but mix it with the 10% Ethanol and it ups the octane rating up to 95 so one starts to see poorer quality fuel than we would normally see in the UK.

 

E10 is just another one of a hundred nails being put in the ICE coffin ie make diesel/petrol cars worse and worse to own so EVs increasingly become the logical choice.

 

'we' do not know who has actually got 10% bio in.  That is the max that they can have.  Is it required to actually be 10% always?  @lol-lol have you not done your own comparison pre and post E10?

1st tankfull our Fabia has done on Tesco's boggo E10 was a very rare >50mpg average; but I'll monitor it for 6 months or more before pronouncing any significant change. 

4 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

'we' do not know who has actually got 10% bio in.  That is the max that they can have.  Is it required to actually be 10% always?  @lol-lol have you not done your own comparison pre and post E10?

 

Indeed as it is up to 10% ethanol but one would expect if ethanol is a cheaper ingredient then the oil refineries will use as much ethanol they can up to the 10 % allowed.  As I said I think it will be interesting if some fuel companies bring in some of the worse quality America, North or South, fuel and use the bio-ethanol to bring the fuel up in octane.

 

I pick up the Zoe R135 tomorrow morning, it will good to know that electricity is electricity is electricity. I have got Octopus Energy to change me over to Octopus Go tariff from tonight, 5p per kWh I think from 0000 to 0430, and I will probably order my Pod Point 7.2 kWh home charger over the weekend.

 

I pickup one of my daughter cars, a Mk 4 Zoe with the 0.9 TCE engine in it, this engine was one that one of the car mags reported a 9% or so increase in fuel consumption so I will see how that goes on the E10 as I use to get 55 mpg or so out of that engine on E5 or even mid 60 mpg when set in Eco mode and sticking to 55-60 mph, but that is painful.

 

With the world going crazy on resources, prices get unstable, diversifying the types of fuels one can use seems wise and keeping fairly full tanks and batteries.  Next stop static battery store.  

 

Referring to mpgs in anything other than brim-to-brim calculated values is really pointless.

Lots of 'if's'. But if supplies are good and prices are cheap then they might well be filling their boots as people fill their tanks.    Gas is expensive and electricity is getting expensive. Not helped by those that can produce from renewables being charged more to move it as long the grid or not being connected to the grid.   Coal being used to generate electric just now while wind farms are paid to not generate yet the reason given is the wind is not blowing.   So much kidology going on in the Green UK. 

We do there has been little wind in August and September so far.  Wind usually pick up closer to the equinoxes, Vernal or Autumnal.

 

All areas of Green agenda need to keep moving forward, more wind turbines and more battery power storage as well as a big exercise to insulate people's homes.

 

Some perfect storm elements at the moment, low wind but also the fire at the 2 GWh France-UK Interconnector is bad news as we currently rely in the French nuclear base load stations for up to 7% of our electrical consumption.

 

Diversity in supply, weighing up all the changing parameters, whether that is the type of power for out transport or the power for out homes. 

 

  

I have always used E5 premium petrol (Sainsburys best!) in my 2017 1.2 Tsi DSG Yeti and have averaged 44.5 MPG since new, MPG measured on brimful-to-brimful basis over 39,000 miles. I thought I would try the E10 petrol when introduced, both for green credentials and price saving. After 2 full tankfuls MPG increased to 39.2 MPG with a noticeable difference in smoothness and power, particularly torque on hills. That is a drop of over 10% so have converted back to E5 and although more expensive to buy on a miles per gallon basis it is still slightly cheaper than the E10 with better performance, smoothness and driveability.

Has anyone else any similar experience?

53 minutes ago, Expatman said:

I have always used E5 premium petrol (Sainsburys best!) in my 2017 1.2 Tsi DSG Yeti and have averaged 44.5 MPG since new, MPG measured on brimful-to-brimful basis over 39,000 miles. I thought I would try the E10 petrol when introduced, both for green credentials and price saving. After 2 full tankfuls MPG increased to 39.2 MPG  

Shome mishtake shorely, Mish Moneypenny?  

Your E10 fuel delivers a decreased mpg

Decrease MPG being bad, increased being better.

@Expatman

Thats how it can go with the E10 is a the lower  ron/ octane being 95,  and the Super Unleaded E5 being 97 or 99 minimum in the UK.   

(Sainsbury's best being 97 ron min usually but maybe sometimes higher octane if they got a good deal from Shell or Greenergy at some time so 99 min.)

 

There is nothing better than running the fuels keeping accurate records and knowing what your particular engines likes.  

 

There never was anything green other than spin from the government if emissions are not lower with people actually needing to buy more fuel and fuels are delivered by diesel or marine fuel oil tankers. 

 

Greener if they manage to kill older cars and put them off the road but not if then drivers buy new ones.

 

.......................

Super Unleaded / E5 as you get it in the UK since September 2021.

 

Edited 5 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

Things might come out in the wash. Eventually.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/climate-change-appg-mps-lobbied-e10-petrol-funded-bioethanol-industry-fuel

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

It's always been the case, from knowingly adding poison (lead) into petrol, to denying/creating doubt/creating sense of hopelessness about climate change.

 

Never trust anything to do with fossil fuels, it's a dishonest industry at heart.