E10 fuels

[FrankNicklin]

So this September 2021 the UK will only have E10 or Super E10 fuels available containing 10% bioethanol instead of the current 5%. Anyone any thoughts on this move.  

Edited 25 February, 2021 by FrankNicklin

[langers2k]

A MK3 Octavia should be absolutely fine on E10...

 

From https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/130329_(revised)_ALL_ACEA_SAAB_JAMA_E10_COMPATIBILITY.pdf:

Quote

Seat:
E10 petrol is cleared for use in the following Seat models with petrol engines:
 Ibiza, starting from model year 2002.
 Cordoba, starting from model 2003.
 Leon, starting from model year 1999.
 Toledo, starting from model year 1999, excluding the 110 kW 2.0 FSI BLR engine manufactured up to June 2004.
 Altea, XL, Freetrack starting from model year 2004, excluding the 110 kW 2.0 FSI BLR engine manufactured up to June 2004.
 Alhambra, starting from model year 2001.
 Ibiza, starting from model year 2008 (Ibiza V).
 All Exeo and Exeo ST models, starting from model year 2009.

 

Škoda:
E10 petrol is cleared for use in all following Škoda vehicles with petrol engines with the following exception:
 Felicia 1.3l OHV (40kw and 50kW) engines used in Felicia models in the production years 1994 to 2001 and before. A retrofit option exists for these engines to make them compatible with the use of E10 petrol – owners are advised to consult their dealer.

 

Volkswagen:
With few exceptions, E10 is cleared for use in all Volkswagen vehicles with petrol engines. The exceptions are the following models with the first generation of FSI engines:
 Lupo 1,4 (77 kW) made from August 2000 to November 2003 (model year 2001 - 2004);
 Polo 1,4 FSI (63 kW) made from February 2002 to June 2006 (model year 2002 - 2006);
 Golf IV 1,6 FSI (81 kW) made from November 2001 to May 2004 (model year 2002 - 2004);
 Golf IV Variant 1,6 FSI (81 kW) made from October 2001 to October 2006 (model year 2002 - 2006);
 Bora 1,6 FSI (81 kW) made from October 2001 to September 2005 (model year 2002 - 2005);
 Bora Variant 1,6 FSI (81 kW) made from October 2001 to September 2005 (model year 2002 - 2005);
 Golf V 1,4 FSI (66 kW) made from November 2003 to November 2004 (model year 2004 - 2005);
 Golf V 1,6 FSI (85 kW) made from August 2003 to May 2004 (model year 2004);
 Golf V 2,0 FSI (110 kW) made from January 2004 to May 2004 (model year 2004);
 Touran 1,6 FSI (85 kW) made from November 2002 to May 2004 (model year 2003 - 2004);
 Touran 2,0 FSI (110 kW) made from October 2003 to May 2004 (model year 2004).

 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by langers2k
typo

[FrankNicklin]

My understanding is that E10 will affect vehicle economy significantly and be more expensive to buy.

[langers2k]

It's slightly less energy dense so economy may drop slightly, maybe ~3% and it should be cheaper per litre.

 

Overall, it'll probably be a similar, possibly slightly higher, cost per mile. However, it should reduce CO2 per mile

 

Figures come from a few google hits but should give a rough idea.

[Ootohere]

EDIT,

I never spotted in the OP yesterday the bit about the Super E10.  There is no legislation requiring Super Unleaded to have 10% bio, and not all E5 Super unleaded has 5% bio in it.

 

Try using E10 if you are very familiar with what MPG you get with 95,97 or 99 ron and see if you are buying less energy for the same price.

 

'Economy May' drop,  but then actually May not. Even 'Does not'.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/472443-e10-petrol

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/455229-e10-fuel

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/284510-using-95ron-e10-any-issues

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/478785-e5-to-e10-petrol-are-skoda-vw-engines-ok-with-e10

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/269546-e10-fuel

 

 

Edited 28 February, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[FrankNicklin]

According recent publications it could cost more in the UK, whereas most countries using it already its cheaper. Sounds about right for the UK.

[PetrolDave]

I've use E10 fuel once in our 2015 Octavia Elegance 1.4TSI estate when we were on holiday in France, about 50 miles after filling up the MIL came on.

 

On checking with my VCDS cable (never go on holiday without it) the lambda sensor had reported an error - cleared it and it didn't come back?

 

Didn't fill up with E10 again after that - glad that by the time E10 is in the UK the Octavia will be SWMBOs problem not mine.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by PetrolDave

[Ootohere]

@FrankNicklin?

Which Publications, would they be the Daily Mail or Express or Autocar / Auto Express?

 

@PetrolDave

It would be handy if you said what car and what year of car that was.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Westbury63]

My MK1 Octavia 1.6 had many tankfulls of E10 during its many Euro trips over the years, and I didn't notice any difference at all.

[Westbury63]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fuelling-a-greener-future-e10-petrol-set-for-september-2021-launch

[FrankNicklin]

@e-RoottootIf you can find a publication that says it’s going to be cheaper, then please share it. I don’t believe for one minute it will be cheaper here. Any excuse is used to raise prices. 

[Ootohere]

As expected.  The Express.   

 

  The UK will be grinding to a halt in May due to snow chaos as well...

[Ecomatt]

Just checked and all Skodas apart from the below will run on E10

 

E10 petrol is cleared for use in all following ŠKODA vehicles with petrol engines with the following exception:

• Felicia 1.3 litre OHV (40kw and 50kW) engines in the production years 1994 to 2001
• Other ŠKODA models using the 1.3 litre OHV engines produced prior to 1994.

NOTE: If your vehicle is listed above you should continue to use E5 petrol. If you are unsure please contact your local Škoda dealer.

[langers2k]

From https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/870089/impact-assessment-measures-for-introduction-of-e10-fuel-stream.pdf

 

Quote

Introducing E10 will add to fuel costs paid by motorists. Moving from E5 to E10 is estimated to reduce pump price petrol costs by 0.2 pence per litre. However, as the energy content of the fuel will also decrease, motorists will have to buy more litres of fuel. Overall fuel costs for petrol cars are therefore estimated to increase by 1.6% as a result of moving from E5 to E10. (More details on these calculations can be found in annex C; but note that the estimated GHG saving of 1.8% already takes into account the impact of the lower energy content). 

 

Seems the gov expect it to be a similar price per litre but cost slightly more overall due to reduce economy

[Kenai]

55 minutes ago, FrankNicklin said:

So this September 2021 the UK will only have E10 or Super E10 fuels available containing 10% bioethanol instead of the current 5%. Anyone any thoughts on this move.  

 

E10 Premium and E5 Super, i've seen nothing to suggest Super grade unleaded will be changed for E10.

 

gov.uk says:

 

Availability

E10 fuel will be available at almost all petrol stations across the UK. Petrol stations that offer 2 grades of petrol will stock both E10 (‘Premium’) and E5 (‘Super’) petrol.

E10 is becoming the UK’s standard petrol grade, meaning almost all filling stations’ standard 95-octane (‘Premium’) petrol grade will be blended with up to 10% renewable ethanol.

E5 (higher-octane petrol with no more than 5% renewable ethanol), however, will remain available at filling stations that sell 2 grades of petrol.

Some rural, remote or very small filling stations may sell only E5 petrol as standard.

[Ootohere]

I see the Telegraph got a recent headline on every car driver having to pay more because of the greener fuel.

So that will be the E10 increasing the Diesel & EV drivers costs.

 

97 & 99 Super unleaded will remain unaffected, and Sainsbury, or Tesco 97 or 99 ron can cost less anyway than Shell, Esso, BP, Gulf, Texaco 95 ron anyway.

 

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/government-plans-e10-petrol-roll-out-september-2021

 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[TDIum]

It may be labelled E5 or E10 but from what I've read, in the UK supply currently there is not enough of the biofuel component produced to actually make up all E5 to 5% anyway. It will take some time before it becomes a reality. 

If you are worried about running a modern German car on the stuff, try running a classic, or a motorbike. 

[shyVRS245]

Glad I bought a diesel then. Anyone seen the Joe Achilles video where he drives all over England during Lockdown (published 09/01/2021) in his soon to be returned BMW 7 Series diesel (261bhp) and fills the 78 litre (17.15 gallon) tank with Shell Premium diesel at £1.389 per litre and then drives 900 miles which works out at 52.4mpg or 12 pence per mile. He should have tried it in my Superb because I did 889 miles on less than 66 litres using Sainsbury's diesel at £1.169 per litre which works out 8.6 pence per mile. He would have saved himself £31.

[Kenai]

47 minutes ago, FrankNicklin said:

My understanding is that E10 will affect vehicle economy significantly and be more expensive to buy.

 

The economy drop is going to be marginal at best and is one of the elements of the E10 rollout that I see the most misinformation spread.

 

Consider that ethanol is generally regarded to be about a third less energy dense than petrol and we're adding just a further 5% of this to the overall blend, the total energy loss in the fuel is going to struggle to reach even 2% - this is absolutely not going to result in a 'significant' decrease in your economy. Even combined with any supposed loss in combustion efficiency, I genuinely doubt most people would have even noticed the difference if they'd simply silently rolled it out.

 

The only reason they couldn't do a silent rollout (like they did moving to E5 from E0 originally) is because E10 has enough bioethanol to present material degradation issues in older vehicles and so there's no choice but to inform people of the change, before they start ruining old cars unknowingly.

 

Will it be more expensive to buy? It shouldn't be, maybe it will be, again though if they weren't told I don't think people would notice - whichever direction it moves is going to be miniscule and petrol prices are usually up and down more than the proverbial lady of the night's knickers anyway.

[wyx087]

27 minutes ago, FrankNicklin said:

According recent publications it could cost more in the UK, whereas most countries using it already its cheaper. Sounds about right for the UK.

Perhaps time to change publication? 

 

Mass media feeds on headlines. The more shock value it's got the better. The headlines are designed to provoke emotion from potential readers so people read it. Mass media isn't interested in informing the public on through unbiased wording, they are only interested in selling paper/ads based on click counts. 

 

 

Here are a few better sources of publication, although these doesn't directly address your concerns with cost: 

https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/eur-scientific-and-technical-research-reports/effect-fuel-ethanol-content-exhaust-emissions-flexible-fuel-vehicle

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032104000784

But they do show a clear benefit to greenhouse emissions, which is important to all of us and should be a major factor in one's decisions for their energy consumption. 

[shyVRS245]

Talking of Energy Consumption from April everyone in the UK will be paying more per month for Gas and Electricity as the energy providers have been allowed to put up their consumer prices. We have already had an e-mail from British Gas with the good news (for them).

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, FrankNicklin said:

According recent publications it could cost more in the UK, whereas most countries using it already its cheaper. Sounds about right for the UK.

 

The 10% biofuel needs to come from plants that are grown

We don't really grow suitable crops in UK

And if we give fields over to it, then presumably less fields available for UK grown foods, so we pay more for fresh vegatables instead

 

 

[Ootohere]

 if E10 has a different RON / MON than other 95 Ron in the EU /Europe then the WLTP figures should be getting carried out with E5 and then E10.  No point giving figures if E10 actually reduces the efficiency or  increases fuel consumption. 

 Then if emissions are reduced on E10 that should be shown in the vehicles VED in the UK. 

   PS the UK,s biggest BIO producer has been asking the government for support for the past few years. 

The delay in introducing E10 meant they were having loss of investment and near to collapse.

The UK can produce a lot of BIO from crop waste and does in Scotland as well as producing Gas.  There are plants doing this less than 20 miles from where I am.    Tattie Shaw's and much more like sugar beet waste, mash from distilleries and brewery's Check near Coupar Angus .

 

 

http://fleetnews.co.uk/smart-transport/news/government-to-fund-building-of-bio-fuel-production-plants

 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Ttaskmaster]

1 hour ago, Kenai said:

 

The only reason they couldn't do a silent rollout (like they did moving to E5 from E0 originally) is because E10 has enough bioethanol to present material degradation issues in older vehicles and so there's no choice but to inform people of the change, before they start ruining old cars unknowingly.
 

Exactly. My bike will probably never get ridden again, as the carb diaphragms will just be ruined by E10.

 

[Ootohere]

Run it on Super Unleaded then as many have done for years with motorcycles.

 

 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by e-Roottoot