Anyone available to code a new (AGM) battery in Northampton please?

[nta16]

Hi, I've just joined, generally I like to give and not just take from sites and forums but I only know a bit about old cars not modern, though I have lots of car 'experiences' - and I need help please.

 

I've ordered a new (AGM) battery for my wife's Fabia totally forgetting about all the coding required for modern cars,  I'm old and my own car is old (1973 MG Midget).

 

Is there anyone in Northampton that could code the new battery for me please?

[TerFar]

Try Halfords. You can book and pay online selecting a day and time that suits you. When they did my battery, the were prompt at starting the work (they had the new battery ready waiting) and it took 15 mins to replace the battery and plug in the programmer to change the codes. A little more expensive than buying online, but the convenience is worth the extra when you're old and grumpy like me. 

[nta16]

HI TerFar, thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately I'd already ordered the battery before I remembered, or thought about, these modern things like the battery needing coding.

 

I'm old, grumpy and forgetful, plus obviously in a complete panic at my wife not being able to use her car to for fill her very busy work and more importantly social life.  

 

The current battery is I assume (but don't know) the original as it has all the marking as such and is a EFB type but a AGM is replacing it as my wife often only has very short journeys but needs the car for them.

 

Having a British (made) classic car for myself my metal and physical health can't take another car that needs too much attention.

 

It's annoying as the coding really is little more than keying in data entries but it does need to be exact and generally mechanics aren't known for their attention to detail as far as admin goes so I'd sooner be looking over their shoulder, difficult now, or have a print out of their input to reassure myself as unfortunately I have lots of experience with our cars of things not being done well, or as well as they should have, and even very badly.

 

[TerFar]

I know exactly where you're coming from. I often reminisce about how much simpler it all was back when I started out motoring.  I did most of my servicing and have rebuilt several A series engines.

I've been a big enthusiast about many of the modern improvements such as power steering and power brakes with all the handling, safety and economy improvements. But all this electronic jiggery pokery is far too much.  Now if you get a fault, if it doesn't show up on the diagnostic system, most garages are clueless what to do.

When a friend and I drove an ancient Reliant Kitten estate on the Mongol Rally, it was a pleasure to find that once we had left 'modern' Europe and drove into Ukraine and Russia, though the roads were ghastly, every little village had its little garage/workshop setup and they really were traditional mechanics. We had a generator burn out: no problem. A guy took it off, stripped it and rewound it in less than three hours. When two wheel studs broke, they removed a good stud, jumped onto an old scooter and disappeared for a couple of hours, coming back with two newly machine replacements! Here they'd right off your 5-year old car for a broken stud!  

[nta16]

Your skills are well beyond mine, I only do the work now because I have to, but nothing too mechanical or technical.  And your adventures a bit more exotic than mine.  I remember Reliant being the third(?) biggest British car manufacturer at one time but must admit I had to look up the Kitten to remind myself which model that was.

 

I live in the county of motor racing and engineering (formerly) yet unless you're in the know, and I'm not, it's very difficult to find places that do more than plug and play (around).  Those that live in places like the USA or Australia area often say about nipping into a "shop" and asking for this or the other engineering or other stuff to be done (and for beer money) or to borrow(!) this tool or other, which many of the big car parts stores do in America for free.

 

A chap from Tasmania was suggesting on-the-car wheel balancing and I put that I'd not seen the machines for that for very many years so he suggested an adjustable stud frame (rather than centre hole)  and I put I'd not seen these so he looked up on the internet and found a place in Northampton that had such a thing but when I rang them it was for 4x4 vehicles and he wasn't sure if it'd fit the wheel that'd been the topic, but he' did say he'd give it a try if the wheel was brought in.

 

The problem is that the internal combustion engine is very old technology, A-series from 1948 (IIRC), but all engines like the Skoda/VW aren't really that far advanced from that, though better built, it's all the very complicated interconnected electronics and computer programming that gets the extra efficiency out of the engine and all these are really add-ons to each other rather a complete system designed from scratch.  Not that we ever get problems from computers and their programming ... 

[Warrior193]

Hi Nat, welcome to the forum, phone Halfords and ask the manager if they will code your new, customer-supplied battery. Charge will probably be reasonable as a pretty quick job. Otherwise try a local auto electrician. All that needs to be coded is new battery serial number (to tell charging system to ignore any previous defects recorded) Battery type change (EFB to AGM) and Amp-hour rating (if different) 

[inspectorman]

There is a map of VCDS owners. Unfortunately no-one in Northampton has signed up but MK, Bedford and Kettering all have people who may or may not wish to help. A 5 minute job.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yn6mmtyk

[nta16]

Hi Warrior, thanks.

 

If I could borrow the equipment I could do it myself - but I don't see that happening.  

 

I've watched the videos so now I'm an expert!  

 

I've also seen on here where the AGM setting is to be fleece rather than AGM spiral (IIRC).

 

In the past I've had the simplest jobs balls'd-up and not always been told about it or had it covered up or bodged to be discovered later when something else has gone wrong, so standing outside near someone from Halfords who's perhaps more open than a can't be told or bothered mechanic or technician might be best if it can be arranged.

 

I don't know any auto-electricians so have no idea who can be reliable and trusted and I've yet to ask around but will if required.

 

My wife has asked her boss to ask her husband but I'm not sure how well that'll work out as I've not heard back yet.

[nta16]

inspectorman, thanks a lot, just the type of thing I was hoping for.

 

I've contacted the nearer person as I stand more chance of knowing the area and finding them with my MG SatNavs as photo (revisions not shown).

 

I understand nothing's for certain and can be taken for granted but always worth at least asking.

 

Cheers.

[rum4mo]

Yes, with VCDS the "fleece" option is the one to go for, some other scan tools like Carista only seem to offer "AGM" - when and if my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI needs a new battery I'll be able to check out by changing to "AGM" from "EFB" what that equates when reading the settings using VCDS.

 

Unfortunately, I seem to have misread the probably urgent need for me to set the wheels in motion concerning that Polo's EFB battery, while taking the worst scenario situation, I checked up on Tayna battery site and discovered that the slightly bigger AGM battery was cheaper than the "same size" one, so I ordered in a new battery plate and battery insulator - and now as that Polo approaches its 6th birthday in mid August, the battery heath is still "very good"!

 

The way you re-code these batteries in more modern cars is very easy, for my good old 2011 Audi S4, the setup was a bit different, both VW Group and BMW seemed to have a "wonderful" way of doing things back in the early days of "car needs battery coding" - they used the official part number, that system was later drummed out by the aftermarket trade as it was far too restrictive, so  DIYer owners like me have had to do a bit of leg work making sure that we know the VW Group P/N of many AGM batteries so that we can help out friends by replacing their either smaller AGM batteries or same size EFB batteries with AGM versions!  Thank goodness that way of doing things was forced to change, still it passes the time and keeps the brain working for someone that has become retired!

Edited 20 June, 2021 by rum4mo
Corrected spelling of Tayner to Tayna!

[BigEjit]

Has anyone actually done this on a Fab III? I swapped the original EFB out for an AGM on ours and had the local VW specialist plug in to update it. Got told there was nothing to change and not charged for the 20 mins or so messing with it.

 

Its been flawless for the last 8 months...

[nta16]

An ex-VCDS user from this site has kindly offered to help me, he's now on OBD2 so I don't know if that's where this "fleece" comes into it, I read AGM spiral (IIRC) is wrong setting for AGM.

 

I'm waiting for deliver of the AGM battery from Tayna, a Bosch S5 A05. - https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/bosch/s5a05/

 

I've had  a couple of batteries from Tayna before and they're been a good price and quick delivery.  I had a new battery in the past that wasn't quite fully charged when I got it (can't remember if that was from Tayna or not) so I always check before fitting.

 

As my wife has just returned with the car I now get the chance to try a longer charge on it to tied us over and I've risked it and disconnected it , I've not even bothered with a plug-in battery back up my neighbour has lent me, I might regret that though if it rains all day tomorrow as we don't have a garage or cover for the cars.  And I'll be right in it if it's not running early Monday morning. 

[nta16]

Hi BigEjit,

I was talking with my wife's boss's husband who was formerly a BMW technician and he's of the same view, he fitted a very cheap standard battery his his son's VW even though it was stop/start as for whatever reason they wanted the cheapest battery and he didn't do a battery code for it and said it ran find.  I can't recall now if he said he disconnected the battery management plug, it was a "bad line" from handsfree car phone (as they often are, progress?).

 

I will report back on all the results of my actions and inactions.

[TerFar]

I've had my BCM disconnected for 3 years (except the days it's been in for a service), mainly to defeat start/stop but also because it stops the battery from fully charging. It's only necessary to disconnect the BCM sensor lead from the battery negative terminal and tuck it away. 

[Warrior193]

4 hours ago, nat16 said:

Hi Warrior, thanks.

 

If I could borrow the equipment I could do it myself - but I don't see that happening.  

 

I've watched the videos so now I'm an expert!  

 

I've also seen on here where the AGM setting is to be fleece rather than AGM spiral (IIRC).

 

In the past I've had the simplest jobs balls'd-up and not always been told about it or had it covered up or bodged to be discovered later when something else has gone wrong, so standing outside near someone from Halfords who's perhaps more open than a can't be told or bothered mechanic or technician might be best if it can be arranged.

 

I don't know any auto-electricians so have no idea who can be reliable and trusted and I've yet to ask around but will if required.

 

My wife has asked her boss to ask her husband but I'm not sure how well that'll work out as I've not heard back yet.

I can relate to what you're saying!

[nta16]

Thanks TerFar you reminded me to discuss this with my wife.

 

Does a warning light stay illuminated on the dash?

 

And I'm confused, which doesn't fully charge the battery and what's the benefit of not fully charging the battery?

 

Most of the journeys my wife makes in the Fabia are now very short and very rarely at standstill long enough to give a lot of effect to the engine being off and most times it's in open areas.  

[nta16]

57 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

I can relate to what you're saying!

I see your, er, wotsit, is of a Mini so another long term supporter of the motor parts business and contributor to the country's economy. 

 

[BigEjit]

12 hours ago, nat16 said:

Thanks TerFar you reminded me to discuss this with my wife.

 

Does a warning light stay illuminated on the dash?

 

And I'm confused, which doesn't fully charge the battery and what's the benefit of not fully charging the battery?

 

Most of the journeys my wife makes in the Fabia are now very short and very rarely at standstill long enough to give a lot of effect to the engine being off and most times it's in open areas.  

Not fully charging the battery saves energy otherwise taken from fuel. Stop Start batteries particularly AGM operate fine at 80% charged so there is no point using fuel to drive the alternator to charge to 100%.

 

Off throttle coasting switches the alternator on to charge the battery above 80% so that it’s a ‘free’ charge that can be used for a while before the voltage drops and the alternator has to be engaged again.

 

A standard flooded battery can’t handle the duty cycle as well as an EFB or AGM and wear out quicker. 

Edited 20 June, 2021 by BigEjit

[nta16]

BigEjit, thanks, I see, now you've pointed it out, and it might explain even more why the battery is low, off throttle coasting, good job I've got the tyres pumped up to eco mode at 35psi but I don't see much of this off throttle coasting you talk of, I'll have to watch the pedals when my wife is driving. 

 

[nta16]

The story so far (anyone remember Peyton Place or Soap), I've now got both batteries fully charged in the shed, I hope the old battery doesn't hold its charge too long or I might have been premature with its replacement, something I always advise against.

 

I'm going to put the new battery on this morning and see what happens, I think I'll keep the BCM connected to start with and disconnect it later this week when the rare event of my wife not using the car and I can experiment with it (if only I had somewhere to go with it).

 

I'll post the next update of the continuing story when I get there.

 

[TerFar]

1 hour ago, BigEjit said:

Not fully charging the battery saves energy otherwise taken from fuel. Stop Start batteries particularly AGM operate fine at 80% charged so there is no point using fuel to drive the alternator to charge to 100%.

 

Off throttle coasting switches the alternator on to charge the battery above 80% so that it’s a ‘free’ charge that can be used for a while before the voltage drops and the alternator has to be engaged again.

 

A standard flooded battery can’t handle the duty cycle as well as an EFB or AGM and wear out quicker. 

 

That's precisely what is wrong with the system.

90% of our journeys are short journeys; supermarket, gym, town for various reasons, gallery where wife works, etc. all round an extremely busy roads with queues of traffic and roundabouts, start/stop nearly all the way.

 

So with the BCM sensor connected, we have start/stop in action at every stop draining the battery that's only at 80% to start with (until it it is too low and the BCM overrides it), very little overrun to do any charging whatsoever. I've plugged in a battery voltage gauge and watched the voltage to see when it is charging and it's not often on short runs. If you take it for a long run to 'top up the battery' at a steady 70mph, it simply charges back to just 80% because there are no opportunities for overrun at a steady 70mph (unless you want to drive erratically and drive other motorists bonkers).

 

I think the whole idea is a complete EU legislative mess in the pretense of saving fuel. But just how much? Insignificant in my experience. Just annoyance of the delay waiting for the engine to restart at busy junctions and constant low battery warnings. So I disconnect the BCM sensor which enables me to pull away at our local busy roundabouts and junctions and it eliminates low battery problems.

 

[rum4mo]

Just remember that BCM stands for Body Control Module in VW Group and others world, it is the BMS term that best suits that dongle and its lead, I'm not trying to be pedantic, just making sure that term is not used incorrectly in case it causes amusement or red face at dealership!

 

No warning lights will come on if it is left disconnected, I only discovered that my wife's VW dealership had disconnected it and forgotten to reconnect it when they did some warranty work (replacing the upper gearbox end  mounting) - and I became aware that stop/start was not working - ever.

 

If leaving these cars unsupported while replacing the battery, you will get some warning lights on when next starting the car, driving it a short way should extinguish them, also maybe check the functioning of the electric windows, at least older cars "lost" the top/bottom stored values so needed the windows wound fully down and held for a few seconds and the same when wound fully up - though maybe not now an issue with these later cars, I don't know and would probably always support my car's systems if removing the battery.

Edited 20 June, 2021 by rum4mo
Correct "not not" to "maybe not".

[rum4mo]

18 hours ago, BigEjit said:

Has anyone actually done this on a Fab III? I swapped the original EFB out for an AGM on ours and had the local VW specialist plug in to update it. Got told there was nothing to change and not charged for the 20 mins or so messing with it.

 

Its been flawless for the last 8 months...

 

That is a strange thing, though when I've dug deeply into things/facts, I have a couple of CTEK smart chargers and while at least one of them has a dedicated AGM setting/program, when you read the owner's manual fully, this AGM setting is only for "other" types of AGM and not for AGM drop ins as most people tend to be using if changing from EFB to AGM.

 

I still have a nagging feeling that I should get an ex-work mate to bring his 2018 Audi A6 TDI out to me so that I can have another look at the settings, his friendly all makes garage replaced his dying EFB VW Group battery for a Yuasa AGM but did nothing else, so after finding that out, I offered to make any other necessary changes - on his car like my 2011 Audi S4, there is no easy dropdown menu to be looked at that includes battery technology, as I said earlier the car gets that info from the battery's VW Group part number that has been inputted,  now I did not think that Audi fitted EFB batteries to TDI cars, especially the bigger cars, but I might be wrong. So the options are that if I look at the channel that has the battery part number listed, I can work out from built up knowledge, if that car was set up at factory for EFB or AGM and alter to an AGM part number if necessary, I did alter the serial number though to alert the BMS that a new battery had been fitted.

 

I do understand while there are "facts" there does seem to be, at least to the enquiring mind, a certain amount of smoke and mirrors - basically to protect the motor trade, most cars on their second battery get "moved on" soon after so nothing really matters to the owner changing the battery, but for the rest of us, why on try to maximise the new battery life if only to do, or try to do what is meant to be done.

[TerFar]

26 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

Just remember that BCM stands for Body Control Module in VW Group and others world, it is the BMS term that best suits that dongle and its lead, I'm not trying to be pedantic, just making sure that term is not used incorrectly in case it causes amusement or red face at dealership!

 

No warning lights will come on if it is left disconnected, I only discovered that my wife's VW dealership had disconnected it and forgotten to reconnect it when they did some warranty work (replacing the upper gearbox end  mounting) - and I became aware that stop/start was not working - ever.

 

If leaving these cars unsupported while replacing the battery, you will get some warning lights on when next starting the car, driving it a short way should extinguish them, also maybe check the functioning of the electric windows, at least older cars "lost" the top/bottom stored values so needed the windows wound fully down and held for a few seconds and the same when wound fully up - though not not now an issue with these later cars, I don't know and would probably always support my car's systems if removing the battery.

 

My Skoda dealer describes the BCM is the battery control module. It's not a physical module but part of the msnsgement is software. 

There is no downside to disconnecting it: no errors or such like, just all upsides (no start/stop and a fully charged battery). 

[xman]

Agm batteries require a slightly higher charging voltage to EFB.

 

I believe you need to change the battery type setting from EFB to Fleece (not AGM)* using a diagnostic tool to take this into account. Changing the serial no. resets the SOH so that the battery manangement assumes a new battery has been fitted.

 

*Fleece is another name for AGM+ which uses modified construction and requires even higher charging voltages than traditional AGM.

Edited 20 June, 2021 by xman