DIY air con re-gas

[Raycross]

Hello all,

 

I was wondering if anyone here has ever used those DIY air con re-gas tanks and gauges that are on the market? I have recently purchased an SEL 2015, and feel that the air con could be colder ( its OK at the moment but not as cold as I think it has the potential to be).

 

If so, any recommended kits better than others?

 

Thanks as always 👍,

 

Ray

[KenONeill]

12 hours ago, Raycross said:

if anyone here has ever used those DIY air con re-gas tanks and gauges

Doing this is illegal. In any event you can get a regas from a mobile service for around £70.

[Raycross]

Didn’t know it was illegal, I wonder how they get away selling these kits?

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, Raycross said:

Didn’t know it was illegal, I wonder how they get away selling these kits?

Well, one method is to fill them with something other than refrigerant, butane is common (and also potentially turns your car into a rolling bomb).

[rum4mo]

Look closely at any DIYer refill cans and make sure that it is advertised as being R134A as there are a few about that are not willing to name their product in terms of being an F-Gas.

 

Maybe I'm behind the times, but when I was involved with fridge gases, mobile HVAC systems were not included in much F-Gas restrictions mainly as (a) they will leak and (b) they spread their leaks around so never the owner's fault while not being the repair/regas outlet's problem as long as the system tested as being "good" prior to recharging.  Fixed fridge plant had far higher regulations placed on them,  I had some systems that used fridge gases/fluid only once, ie equipment being tested was fitted empty, flooded after attached to a test set up then emptied prior to removal, all fridge fluid was logged onto the site by me by weighing all new sealed delivery cylinders, empty delivery cylinders weighed prior to returning to supplier and the same for all recovery cylinders arriving under vacuum and leaving loaded with used fridge fluid - no funny/fancy/lazy accepting cylinder stamped weights and/or quoted delivered weights of fridge fluid/gas, a horrible burden to carry, but needs must

 

At one time it looked to me that on temperature test chamber we were going to end up needing to being greener by moving to butane etc drop in replacements but I managed to keep things going until that danger passed and more suitable but less desirable greener fridge gases appeared - thankfully.

[rum4mo]

7 hours ago, Raycross said:

Didn’t know it was illegal, I wonder how they get away selling these kits?

 

Maybe better and cheaper to find a mobile air con operator.

[J.R.]

Its been illegal to sell the kits containing R134a in the EU for a very long time, even Ali-express sellers had to knock it on the head, some got inventive by describing the contents as air freshener or leak test gas but they quickly got shut down, I had to bite the bullet in the end and buy a 13kg cylinder from Lithuania & even that was dodgy as they should have insisted on seeing that I had the correct installer accreditation.

 

The ones that are sold now have R134a in great big lettering and equivalent or alternative in tiny lettering, and they are dodgy as hell as they dont print that the contents are really butane gas.

 

I very much doubt that it will mix with R134a as a top up and as has been said it would make your vehicle into a ticking bomb.

[J.R.]

7 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Well, one method is to fill them with something other than refrigerant, butane is common (and also potentially turns your car into a rolling bomb).

 

I believe that butane, or probably propane is a regrigerant gas and if the system is vacuumed down as it should be then it would actually work, well at least for a while before sending you off to meet your maker.

 

Fire & explosion risks aside, having a different specific heat capacity it would be very incompatible.

[rum4mo]

Another "amusing" thing to add into fridge systems used to be Penta(?), if was used in mainly big stationary systems to get rid of waxes formed when fridge systems still used dinosaur oils, now that could waken up anyone doing any repair work that involved a brazing torch, smart fridge guys tagged the system at the fill points so they were sort of protected.

 

What really concerned me was running an area that had lots of big old contactors flashing/crashing away both in the temperature heaters/compressors/fans circuits, but also having big old power amplifiers for air cooled shakers in the same area, a horrible mixture, but as I said I kept the brake on the trend to go green long enough for better/safer F-Gases to become available.

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

butane, or probably propane is a refrigerant gas

Sort of. Yes, I have seen frost forming on external LPG tanks, without there being a visible ground frost at the time. That said, the pressure in said tanks was falling (slowly but steadily) as we burned the gas in heaters in our site office.

[Eccles]

£70 for a re-gas? That's very pricey, my local garage did mine for £45 and they are not the cheapest.

[Ootohere]

@Ecclesis that a cash in hand job?

It is quite amazing how some places can cover the cost of their labour, materials, overheads and pass on 20% VAT to HMRC. 

[xman]

Tyres on the drive (Halfords mobile service) currently do an R134a regas for £50, Kwikfit and F1 autocentres are just under £60 with occasional vouchers appearing reducing it to £50. Often, out of season, i.e. Winter time it will be £40 or even less. An F1 autocentre manager confided a couple of years ago that due to US patents expiring, R134a gas now costs peanuts and they could still make a profit at half the price. 

 

R1234yf gas as mandated in cars after 2015 is much more expensive (thanks to EU and US patent king Honeywell), the cheapest I've seen is £114 iirc, kwikfit is £130

 

Iso-Butane is called R600a gas in fridge land. Many modern fridges use this, is up to 50% more efficient and more ECO friendly than R134a but obviously highly flammable and not approved in automotive applications and potentially dangerous if it leaks.

 

R600a will mix with R134a according to this paper and is more efficient than R134a on its own.

[Ootohere]

ATS Euromaster say 'most cars registered before Jan 2017 on the gas that the recharge for £60 and then £130 on the later stuff.  500 yards down the road from me McConnecheys is now a Halfords Auto Centre and no Mobile Service comes up with them, 50 yards further on are ATS and Tyre City sitting facing each other.  All are busy at all times and there are 3 other places that are tyre fitting centres.  Small rural town with lots of agricultural and commercial customers. 

[xman]

My mistake, R1234yf became mandatory in new cars from 2017. Also the culprits responsible for the excessive prices are Honeywell and Dupont, the patent holders. Convenient that EU insist we need the new gas just as Duponts patents on R134a expire.

[skomaz]

My understanding is that R1234yf isn't as good a refrigerant as R134a and is more prone to leaks and hence more is needed and more fuel is used to drive the system as well.??

[Breezy_Pete]

^ Sounds like the typical direction of progress in automotive tech.

[skomaz]

10 minutes ago, Wino said:

^ Sounds like the typical direction of progress in automotive tech.

 

And beurocratic / government decision making processes...

[xman]

Just read that mercedes now use CO2 (R744) air conditioning systems in some of their models. They are well known to be anti R1234yf, mainly as they consider it a flammable risk.

 

https://polar-aircon.co.uk/r744-air-con-gas-replacement/