Superb IV DSG left in neutral issue?

[mandp]

Turned my `AutoHold` on 2 years ago and it's been on ever since.

Smashing bit of kit.

[aerofurb]

I just wondered if there is any definitive evidence out there that the e drive does actually ‘switch off’ when in D/B and stationary with the EPB on. 
 

To me it’s a shame there seems a lack of info about as to how the iV works - there’s more info out there on the VW GTE’s than from Skoda and that’s still not a great deal. From where do others glean the stated info?
 

I haven’t managed to find an official workshop manual yet - I had them for both my Yeti and Citigo. 
 

As for the ‘is the iV right for me’ comment - it’s perfect. Monday to Friday I drive 4.5 miles to work and 4.5 miles home - pure EV mode. Most weekends I have a 105 mile drive and then home again - hybrid mode. 
 

As an aircraft engineer I am very interested in the technical aspects of how the car works and have a shed load of mechanical sympathy. Hence my questions over what is a actually happening in the drive train when the EPB is applied and why I don’t feel the need to apply the EPB (by automation or by physically moving a switch with my digit) when the car is parked in the garage overnight. 

[ApertureS]

You’re over thinking all of this way to much...

 

VW spend millions of pounds to develop a car and not once have they ever said to put it in N when stopped. Stop trying to out smart the car and the technology involved in it. It knows what it’s doing and knows exactly how to operate it’s own gearbox.

[MarkyG82]

@aerofurb I am a mechanical engineer so share your interest in this sort of thing. You are right that there is very little information available in how or what is happening. I guess you have to trust that it's not applying any force into the gearbox when in D/B. In my experience of driving it of nearly a year I am yet to see or feel any reason to believe otherwise. There is no tug or dip like you get when doing a traditional hill start on a manual handbrake. What you do get is the release when the EHB goes on and releases the main brakes.

 

Can we know why you feel you need to not use the handbrake when parking up if you use it daily?

Edited 10 October, 2021 by MarkyG82

[aerofurb]

Re the EPB left ‘off’ overnight - if it’s ‘on’ then there’s things moving to get it there and ‘off’ again, pressure applied to the pads to grip the disc etc. The car isn’t going anywhere so P does it for me.
 

Previously, I’ve always left my cars ‘in gear’ when in a level garage with the park brake off. Pre electric EPB, it saved loading the cables etc. Back to a bit of mechanical sympathy. 
 

But then again, am I’m wearing the gear selector out by moving from D/B > N > D/B at the lights…!

 

I still don’t believe it actually damages the DSG by going to N as has been said. 
 

The iV manual says to leave it in D/B with your foot on the brake at a temporary stop at a junction. To stop it says use P. 
 

To me a temporary stop at a junction is a ‘give way’ (stop to go) junction as opposed to a stop sign junction or traffic lights (stop to stop). 
 

It’s fun to have our own ideas, thoughts and opinions..! 
 

Oh and as for VAG knowing what they’re doing - much as I love VAG products, that isn’t always the case. Look at the rubbish attempt at an EA189 ‘fix’ on many cars (my Yeti never had the ‘fix’), kangarooing 1.5 engines, Octavia IV/Golf 8 software issues etc. 
 

 

[KeteCantek]

On 08/10/2021 at 16:11, MartiniB said:

Can't agree, rews are changing, what means there is small load

That's just the engine being ready for the clutch to engage when you release the brakes so it moves off smoothly. 

 

In sport, the idle rev in D with brakes on is around 1k. That's so it can take off quicker without stalling

[Patent]

You'll find a lot of the technical information on your iV powertrain at this guide:

 

https://manualzz.com/doc/32766336/ssp-537---the-golf-gte

 

It's for the 2013 golf GTE but the mechanicals are identical

[Beanhead]

On 10/10/2021 at 09:46, aerofurb said:

 

As an aircraft engineer 

Yours isn’t the lovely iv plugged in at Marshall’s Cambridge during the day is it 👀

[aerofurb]

8 hours ago, Beanhead said:

Yours isn’t the lovely iv plugged in at Marshall’s Cambridge during the day is it 👀

‘Fraid not! Obviously someone else in the trade with good taste though!

[short1uk]

Please forgive my ignorance on this subject….. 2.0TDI 6 speed dsg. I disabled stop start every journey, when sitting in a queue at school I slip to N as I was lead to believe if I didn’t do this I was slipping the clutch so to speak as I’m not using the start stop. 
 

so that’s wrong? I can just sit with it in D and my foot on the brake or auto hold? 
 

Many thanks 

[ApertureS]

5 hours ago, short1uk said:

Please forgive my ignorance on this subject….. 2.0TDI 6 speed dsg. I disabled stop start every journey, when sitting in a queue at school I slip to N as I was lead to believe if I didn’t do this I was slipping the clutch so to speak as I’m not using the start stop. 
 

so that’s wrong? I can just sit with it in D and my foot on the brake or auto hold? 
 

Many thanks 

Id be interested to know where people get these ideas from...

 

A DSG works by in its natural state there is no clutch engagement - this is when youre in P, N, E, not moving, foot on brake stopped, start/stop and all of the above

When you then start moving pressure is applied to activate a relatively 'huge' amount of clutch plates to enable movement.

 

You are not wearing anything out by leaving it in D/R

 

Its not like an old peugeot 107 where the gearbox is a manual gearbox with an electronic motor to do the clutch and gear changes (which can burn clutches out). Its completely different.

[short1uk]

2 hours ago, ApertureS said:

Id be interested to know where people get these ideas from...

 

A DSG works by in its natural state there is no clutch engagement - this is when youre in P, N, E, not moving, foot on brake stopped, start/stop and all of the above

When you then start moving pressure is applied to activate a relatively 'huge' amount of clutch plates to enable movement.

 

You are not wearing anything out by leaving it in D/R

 

Its not like an old peugeot 107 where the gearbox is a manual gearbox with an electronic motor to do the clutch and gear changes (which can burn clutches out). Its completely different.

Ok great so from now on even with start stop disabled just sit with the auto hold on or my foot on the brake in D and it’s totally fine yeah 

[MartiniB]

14 hours ago, ApertureS said:

 

You are not wearing anything out by leaving it in D/R

not true, there is noticeable engine load change when move D<->N

i can talk only about mine DQ250 DSG6 FWD not IV

Edited 2 November, 2021 by MartiniB
DQ25->DQ250

[short1uk]

30 minutes ago, MartiniB said:

not true, there is noticeable engine load change when move D<->N

i can talk only about mine DQ25 DSG6 FWD not IV

and mine no idea what engine it is just a Mk 3 superb 6 speed dsg 2.0

[Phil-E]

So things are getting confused here as now a 6 speed DSG has been thrown into the mix.

 

The 7 speed uses dry clutches which are much more like a standard clutch. Using clutch forks being operated by the mechatronics.

 

While stationary with your foot on the brake in D or while using auto hold the clutches are completely disengaged and there is no drive being applied (from the engine or motor).

 

The 6 speed on the other hand uses multi-plate wet clutches.

 

These operate in a completely different way to the dry clutches. They are made up of multiple plates and oil pressure is applied to press the plates together. Even without pressure being applied there is always some friction between the plates. So even sat on the brake in D there is a very small amount of drive being applied.

 

But it's still not doing any harm. They're designed to cope with this. Hence why they are oil cooled/lubricated and why they have a 40k mile oil change interval.

[Ootohere]

Not all 7 speed,

Only DQ200 DSG 7 Speed Twin Dry Clutch are Dry Clutch.

 

So no 2 litres or AWD's or engines with over 250Nm from the factory have a DQ200 7 speed,

 

7 Speed Wet Clutch DSG's are obviously not Dry Clutch DSG.s.

Edited 2 November, 2021 by roottoot

[MarkyG82]

@Phil-Eyou imply that the iV has dry clutch 7 speed. Not so. The box is a derivative of dq250 with 6 speed and wet clutch. 

[kentdale]

I thought that every type of gear box suffers some type of wear though it's intended operation, I think my Superb has a dry dsg box and I know it's 7 speed I always use the auto hold hand brake, it has no obvious 'loading' sensation while stationary.

This thread does appear to be getting more confusing by the day.

[Ootohere]

@kentdale If it is your Superb sport line plus 190 scr 4x4 dsg then it is not a DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG and it requires oil changes. (& your haldex does as well)

 

PS

'Autohold' is a hold the car while stopped / stationary while driving system that holds the car with the engine running or stop / start having the engine stopped.

So doing the same job as though your foot was on the brake pedal.

 

 It  is not a hand brake / finger brake /parking brake, that is the e-Brakes job.

  the e-brake just puts the rear brakes on.  The 'Autohold' has the 4 brakes functioning.

Edited 6 November, 2021 by roottoot

[kentdale]

On 06/11/2021 at 07:10, roottoot said:

@kentdale If it is your Superb sport line plus 190 scr 4x4 dsg then it is not a DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch DSG and it requires oil changes. (& your haldex does as well)

 

PS

'Autohold' is a hold the car while stopped / stationary while driving system that holds the car with the engine running or stop / start having the engine stopped.

So doing the same job as though your foot was on the brake pedal.

 

 It  is not a hand brake / finger brake /parking brake, that is the e-Brakes job.

  the e-brake just puts the rear brakes on.  The 'Autohold' has the 4 brakes functioning.

Hi rootoot, yes our car is a 190 tdi 4x4 , I did not realise that there were both dry and wet clutch  7 speed sysytems, so could it be the DQ381 as fitted to mbq platform vehicles, not sure where I can find this out .

And yes I am aware of the dsg wet type and the haldex requires correct timely servicing.

Martin

[MarkyG82]

On 09/11/2021 at 12:41, kentdale said:

, so could it be the DQ381 as fitted to mbq platform vehicles, 

 

The superb is also mqb so yes.

[MarkyG82]

So due to the cold weather I have been using the charge mode on the short section of high speed during my commute. Just to maintain a bit of charge. When sat at the lights at the end of this stretch the engine has kicked in a couple of times. If on auto hold this engine turning has actually been applying some force through the gearbox. You can feel the car dip. Knock it into N or manually turn on the "handbrake" and it releases the tension.

[BPL]

I can feel the gearbox load being removed when I go to neutral and I don't want to blind drivers behind me as I hate those doing it to me in front particularly big SUVs. I was just wondering if there were any issues with doing this. I wouldn't leave my manual ice car in gear even witha perfectly good clutch as the release mechanism is designed for temporary operation. I wonder what you have to do on your driving test.....?

[SomethingSuperbly]

If you're worried about blinding drivers behind you, just pull the handbrake on and the rear brake lights will turn off. The green parking brake will turn red on the dash but you'll still be able to go when you put your foot on the accelerator without doing anything else.

 

I used to put my car into Neutral or even Park at stop lights but having read a few threads on this pulling the handbrake is so much easier.

 

[kentdale]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:26, aerofurb said:

Re the EPB left ‘off’ overnight - if it’s ‘on’ then there’s things moving to get it there and ‘off’ again, pressure applied to the pads to grip the disc etc. The car isn’t going anywhere so P does it for me.
 

Previously, I’ve always left my cars ‘in gear’ when in a level garage with the park brake off. Pre electric EPB, it saved loading the cables etc. Back to a bit of mechanical sympathy. 
 

But then again, am I’m wearing the gear selector out by moving from D/B > N > D/B at the lights…!

 

I still don’t believe it actually damages the DSG by going to N as has been said. 
 

The iV manual says to leave it in D/B with your foot on the brake at a temporary stop at a junction. To stop it says use P. 
 

To me a temporary stop at a junction is a ‘give way’ (stop to go) junction as opposed to a stop sign junction or traffic lights (stop to stop). 
 

It’s fun to have our own ideas, thoughts and opinions..! 
 

Oh and as for VAG knowing what they’re doing - much as I love VAG products, that isn’t always the case. Look at the rubbish attempt at an EA189 ‘fix’ on many cars (my Yeti never had the ‘fix’), kangarooing 1.5 engines, Octavia IV/Golf 8 software issues etc. 
 

 

Prior to all these electronic type brakes, I too always left what ever car we have owned only in gear whilst in the level floored garage, only used hand break when required away from home, allways put manual gear box cars in to neutral whilst  stationary  in traffic, never rode the clutch, things my late Dad showed me.

Although I use the auto hold function on the Superb, my van has hill hold but never use it as it carries quite a bit of weight and the engine boggs on release, hand brake allways with the van.

Martin