1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I would not want to be in the back of the Zoe for more than an hour if both front seats were most the way back as I have it when driving.  Press say the very popular PSA 208 platform is slightly less generous for space but these are Fabia sized vehicles and not Gold sized.

 

Being 5'11, I don't need the seat all the way. With the Mk1 Fabia I have, I can fit in the back with plenty legroom, but due to my longer back, I struggle for headroom, hitting the roof or the bit where the roof comes down on my hatchback. Therefore, I always put the shortarses in the back of the Fabia.

 

My question, however, was why Renault advertise it as a family car even if having a family in it would exceed the weight limit? 

10 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

If there's an event that pierces the tank, then it will very quickly vent and be gone

I have only one thing to say to this premise.

1 hour ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

Being 5'11, I don't need the seat all the way. With the Mk1 Fabia I have, I can fit in the back with plenty legroom, but due to my longer back, I struggle for headroom, hitting the roof or the bit where the roof comes down on my hatchback. Therefore, I always put the shortarses in the back of the Fabia.

 

My question, however, was why Renault advertise it as a family car even if having a family in it would exceed the weight limit? 

 

It is a similar load weight capacity to most cars in the segment ie half a tonne or a little bit less than that.  A standard family seems to be assumed to have two adults at 75 kgs each and say 3 kids at rough half weights so say 300 kgs leaving 150 kgs for luggage which is all about what I expect.

 

What surprised me is no tyre pressure increase for putting some quarter of a tonne extra in to the car over the driver.  I normally see that in the tyre pressure sticker.

25 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

A standard family seems to be assumed to have two adults at 75 kgs each and say 3 kids at rough half weights so say 300 kgs leaving 150 kgs for luggage which is all about what I expect.

 

Thank you. That was what I was looking for.

Bl00dy worrying to think of all these Hydrogen Airships that are going to be travelling about the UK roads sometime if Elon Musk takes us back to the future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Elon is not going with Hydrogen until after everyone else has done because he is not.

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

11 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Bl00dy worrying to think of all these Hydrogen Airships that are going to be travelling about the UK roads sometime if Elon Musk takes us back to the future.

 

Can't wait to see the Volkswagen Hindenburg come out. Lead balloons and all that...

An even more useful chart which includes the charging losses in the consumption for 15 vehicles.  From Chris at Batterylife........

Chris was using a powerful Ionity DC charger. Sometimes the car has to slow the charging as the battery/system temps get to high. 

 

Consumption in Wh/km											°C				kWh charged	at these	speeds	below	km driven
		90 km/h	Charger	Difference	110 km/h	Charger	Difference	130 km/h	Charger	Difference	Month	Temp	Weather	comment		90	110	130	km
1	VW eUp 2020	128	140,43	9,71%	165	181,47	9,98%	187	203,33	8,73%	March 2020	7	Dry	Winter tires, not gps		8,426	10,888	12,2	60
2	Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh	104	121,83	17,15%	134	142,80	6,57%	207	228,33	10,31%	May 2020	23	Dry			7,31	8,568	13,7	60
3	Reanult Zoe ZE50	122	140,05	14,80%	158	169,92	7,54%	202	223,85	10,82%	June 2020	24	Dry	AC		8,403	10,195	13,431	60
4	VW eGolf	116	121,92	5,10%	147	158,33	7,71%	192	206,67	7,64%	August 2020	30	Dry	AC		7,315	9,5	12,4	60
5	Mini Cooper SE	117	120,96	3,38%	152	159,77	5,12%	204	217,30	6,52%	September 2020	17	Dry			8,6	11,36	15,45	71,1
6	VW Id.3 Pro	133	139,24	4,69%	170	179,16	5,39%	218	231,55	6,21%	October 2020	12	Dry	19 inch tires		9,9	12,738	16,463	71,1
7	Nissan Leaf e+	159	160,00	0,63%	189	207,50	9,79%	234	266,67	13,96%	October 2020	12	Dry	Winter tires, Not Ionity		9,6	12,45	16	60
8	BMW i3s	150	150,63	0,42%	188	198,33	5,50%	249	265,83	6,76%	March 2021	1	Dry	Winter tires		9,038	11,9	15,95	60
9	Polestar 2	194	206,33	6,36%	208	222,83	7,13%	258	278,33	7,88%	April 2021	7	Bit wet			12,38	13,37	16,7	60
10	Mercedes EQA 250	154	160,80	4,42%	195	205,98	5,63%	248	265,30	6,97%	April 2021	14	Dry	20 inch		9,23	11,823	15,228	57,4
11	Kia eNiro	143	172,32	20,50%	179	193,61	8,16%	213	234,84	10,25%	May 2021	13	Dry	17 inch		11,08	12,449	15,1	64,3
12	VW Id.4 Max	137	146,19	6,71%	170	181,96	7,04%	205	221,52	8,06%	June 2021	21	Dry	21 inch		9,4	11,7	14,244	64,3
13	Fiat 500e	119	128,62	8,08%	156	163,61	4,88%	192	206,84	7,73%	July 2021	25	Dry	17 inch		8,27	10,52	13,3	64,3
14	Volvo XC40	164	176,84	7,83%	217	231,31	6,59%	240	257,95	7,48%	August 2021	23	Dry	19 inch Allseason		11,371	14,873	16,586	64,3
15	Tesla Model Y	123	143,17	16,40%	155	180,33	16,34%	187	215,89	15,45%	September 2021	17	Dry	19 inch		9,206	11,595	13,882	64,3

 

Which change the ranking somewhat.....

 

Consumption in Wh/km
			90 km/h				110 km/h				130 km/h			90	110	130	km
	1	Mini Cooper SE	120,96		1	Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh	142,80		1	VW eUp 2020	203,33			8,426	10,888	12,2	60
	2	Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh	121,83		2	VW eGolf	158,33		2	VW eGolf	206,67			7,31	8,568	13,7	60
	3	VW eGolf	121,92		3	Mini Cooper SE	159,77		3	Fiat 500e	206,84			8,403	10,195	13,431	60
	4	Fiat 500e	128,62		4	Fiat 500e	163,61		4	Tesla Model Y	215,89			7,315	9,5	12,4	60
	5	VW Id.3 Pro	139,24		5	Reanult Zoe ZE50	169,92		5	Mini Cooper SE	217,30			8,6	11,36	15,45	71,1
	6	Reanult Zoe ZE50	140,05		6	VW Id.3 Pro	179,16		6	VW Id.4 Max	221,52			9,9	12,738	16,463	71,1
	7	VW eUp 2020	140,43		7	Tesla Model Y	180,33		7	Reanult Zoe ZE50	223,85			9,6	12,45	16	60
	8	Tesla Model Y	143,17		8	VW eUp 2020	181,47		8	Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh	228,33			9,038	11,9	15,95	60
	9	VW Id.4 Max	146,19		9	VW Id.4 Max	181,96		9	VW Id.3 Pro	231,55			12,38	13,37	16,7	60
	10	BMW i3s	150,63		10	Kia eNiro	193,61		10	Kia eNiro	234,84			9,23	11,823	15,228	57,4
	11	Nissan Leaf e+	160,00		11	BMW i3s	198,33		11	Volvo XC40	257,95			11,08	12,449	15,1	64,3
	12	Mercedes EQA 250	160,80		12	Mercedes EQA 250	205,98		12	Mercedes EQA 250	265,30			9,4	11,7	14,244	64,3
	13	Kia eNiro	172,32		13	Nissan Leaf e+	207,50		13	BMW i3s	265,83			8,27	10,52	13,3	64,3
	14	Volvo XC40	176,84		14	Polestar 2	222,83		14	Nissan Leaf e+	266,67			11,371	14,873	16,586	64,3
	15	Polestar 2	206,33		15	Volvo XC40	231,31		15	Polestar 2	278,33			9,206	11,595	13,882	64,3

 

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

18 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

That doesn't solve the problem of how long it takes to charge - it's just a sticking plaster to keep *some* (business?) people distracted - but for those with young children (I see no mention of a creche) or pets it's of no benefit.

 

I still say the EV & infrastructure solution needed by families is range at least equal to the average family petrol vehicle (i.e. 400 miles or more) and a recharge time of less than 10 minutes.

 

18 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

This would be fitting for our family car, was once a Mk1.5 Toyota Auris TR 1.6 which could go to Manchester, Blackpool or other places (and scoot about various places down there) and back on a single tank of Tesco's cheapest without any fuss. Our Dacia Duster 1.0 does slightly less than that, but is capable nevertheless of around 450 miles to a tank of fuel. In order for us to be able to effectively travel to places, we'd need quick charging and substantial range of 450+ miles in an ideal world.

 

I disagree with the above. If you have kids or dogs, do you really drive 400 miles without stopping? Even a good motorway run will only average around 65mph, so 400 miles will take 6 hours, a more realistic average of 50mph for a journey is 8 hours. No child or dog can be expected to sit and hold 'it' for that length of time. So you will stop, to walk the dog and toilet / feed the children and for everyone to stretch their legs. So a 30 minute stop when the car is charging 'while you get on with your day'. Using a 50kW charger and getting 3 miles per kWh will give you an extra 75 miles - these are deliberately conservative figures. In an 8 hour drive I would be making 4 such stops, so a total of 300 extra miles could be added without any inconvenience. Seems pretty effective travel to me.

For context, I'll be driving my ID.4 to a cottage north of Inverness in exactly the same manner as I drove there in my Karoq - a drive of around 450 miles. I will be stopping at the same places for the same amount of time to walk dogs (only this time charging while doing it) as previously and expect to arrive with 20% remaining battery which I can then top up overnight while sleeping. In the 8 months / 7500 miles I've had the car, charging has not been an issue and certainly has not impacted on travel.

The sad thing about the 69p per kWh is that that's about £20 more than buying diesel for the same range (at only 50mpg and £1.40/l).

 

Of course if the over range journeys are not too much and you can charge cheaply at home at a lower rate, then it's still going to work out in your favour due to tax, ULEZ etc.

Insurance is a sore one though as EV insurance is a lot more than a diesel/petrol equivalent.

Add in the high purchase/lease prices and it's not clear cut.  I'd say it's getting there, but not there yet.

 

I can see a future of short range (Sub 300 mile) vehicles are battery and HGV, Vans and longer range cars are hydrogen Fuel Cell.

Bit like the early days of diesel you'll have to fill up and the firty pump, outside away from the cover etc

 

1 minute ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Insurance is a sore one though as EV insurance is a lot more than a diesel/petrol equivalent.

 

So this would also be a slap to the face to young 'uns like myself who buy a small engined car for insurance purposes?

 

As a side note, where and how are you getting diesel for 1.40/l, if so, how much is your petrol and can you send some my way?

10 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

I disagree with the above. If you have kids or dogs, do you really drive 400 miles without stopping? Even a good motorway run will only average around 65mph, so 400 miles will take 6 hours, a more realistic average of 50mph for a journey is 8 hours. No child or dog can be expected to sit and hold 'it' for that length of time. So you will stop, to walk the dog and toilet / feed the children and for everyone to stretch their legs. So a 30 minute stop when the car is charging 'while you get on with your day'. Using a 50kW charger and getting 3 miles per kWh will give you an extra 75 miles - these are deliberately conservative figures. In an 8 hour drive I would be making 4 such stops, so a total of 300 extra miles could be added without any inconvenience. Seems pretty effective travel to me.

 

Good point, yes. In the case of us going to Blackpool, we do stop, but not for too long, maybe 5-10 minutes for toilet breaks at Southwaites Services at most. We leave early in the morning so we can get there early enough to spend the day in Fleetwood. Depending on range (and the calls of nature from the wee yin, the dog doesn't come to Blackpool, but did to the bit outside of London) will, of course, depend how often we stop the car etc.

 

I, however, am up for testing an electric car for a trip as laid out above. Just to get a taste, if you will.

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

13 hours ago, KenONeill said:

I have only one thing to say to this premise.

 

Which was held in an unpressureised, essentially open tank made of fabric.

As opposed to double walled, resilliant tanks with suitable pressure release valves and consideration of the problem due to the above.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/viral/fire-bursts-out-of-car-when-motorist-fills-it-up-with-petrol-in-central-china/vi-BB1cX25N

 

 

 

Because no petrol car ever caught fire....

29 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

I disagree with the above. If you have kids or dogs, do you really drive 400 miles without stopping?

 

Yes and no.

 

I drove 500 miles yesterday in 9 hours (should have been 8 but for Paris congestion), first 3 hours on RN's & RD's (A & B roads) with one detour for a 5 minute stop at a Lidl to get sustenance and a pee at the side of the road before regaining the motorway, I had made up a flask of coffee before leaving.

 

On the journey down the Paris congestion at the start of the journey and the slow boring 3 hours at the end caused me to take multiple stops to sleep & pee, that journey took 10.5 hours because of a mistake when setting out, I was on autopilot and heading for the Dieppe ferry

 

I can do the journey in under 8 hours if I pick my times but getting up earlier invariably means I stop more on the route.

 

Editted, no kids, no dogs but I do have an aged weakened bladder.

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by J.R.

12 hours ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

Can't wait to see the Volkswagen Hindenburg come out. Lead balloons and all that...

 

Will it have bodywork of fabric stiffened with highly inflammable dope?

 

The hydrogen vented off and burnt above the passenger car, even wartime gasbag conversions put the gas bladder on the roof, the opposite of an EV and probably any hydrogen vehicle.

 

I recently traced the site of the R101 airship disaster in a forest south of Beauvais l'Oise, all but forgotten to the majority in the shadow of the Hindenburg.

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Will it have bodywork of fabric stiffened with highly inflammable dope?

 

I see what you're getting at here, but; 1. there'd be an audible groan from the VW Marketing Team if they called it the Hindenburg, 2. I'm not against hydrogen powered cars, it is an interesting concept that I'd like to see go somewhere as I'm interested in the advancements of cars, within reason, 3. It was merely a vague attempt at humour from me in potentially poor taste.

 

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I recently traced the site of the R101 airship disaster in a forest south of Beauvais l'Oise, all but forgotten to the majority in the shadow of the Hindenburg.

 

This sounds quite interesting. I shall research this in my free time.

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

42 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Insurance is a sore one though as EV insurance is a lot more than a diesel/petrol equivalent.

 

My ID.4 cost me the same as for my previous Karoq to insure.

10 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

I shall research this in my free time.

The Wikipedia makes a good place to start.

59 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Insurance is a sore one though as EV insurance is a lot more than a diesel/petrol equivalent.

 

15 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

My ID.4 cost me the same as for my previous Karoq to insure.

 

I did a comparison insurance check for myself between a 89ps 2014 Renault Zoe (worth £7k) and a PD100 2007 Skoda Fabia Ambiente (worth about £1,400). Both insurance policies are the same, 17 y/o passed in August '21, named driver driving since 1999 no accidents, 11k a year in mileage, no modifications, £50 excess. Those policies include a telematics box

 

Here are my findings.

 

Renault Zoe:

 

Fabia:

 

 

That price difference is £675.66 in a year between the Fabia and the Zoe. This is not something, like other young people paying similar for current ICE cars, that I could afford to pay in terms of insurance for a car of this nature, even monthly. So even if it doesn't affect those with NCB and more driving experience, it will penalise those just starting out into the world of motoring, such as myself. In this case, it still makes more sense to operate the diesel, especially since some councils (area dependant) are introducing fees, as @roottoot has outlined in previous posts.

 

Anyway, I shall crawl back into the hole from whence I came unless to provide further information

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

9 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

The Wikipedia makes a good place to start.

 

Cheers Ken, I've hopefully got free time at the end of this week for frivolous things like researching topics outside of university etc.  

I'm old enough now that a diesel costs £250-300 and an EV was £350 if you were lucky, but more like £550-600.
These are prices for long range EV.

 

What I found interesting was that the excess on EV was more like £250-400 mandatory excess vs £0-£100 on a diesel.

 

  

21 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

My ID.4 cost me the same as for my previous Karoq to insure.

 

Interesting, we're driving an ID3 shortly so shall compare, but anything on the longer range or AWD bracket seems to jack the prices up high.

Was it an ID4 max or just an ID4 with the standard battery if you don't mind me asking?

Edited 10 November, 20214 yr by cheezemonkhai

I found that the excess is greater for the diesel Furby, but it doesn't go over the cost of the EV for insurance overall however.

 

 

Different EV's are in various Insurance Groups and not just by the Power of the motors.

Ones with the same power can fall into very different bands.

Even ones of the same value.

 

There are ones that have the Power / Performance figures from the Manufacturer that put them in a pretty low insurance band.

Ones can be the same power / performance but lower trim and in a lower band.

 

A low priced EV can be a nippy car compared to the ICE version, but not cost more to insure.

Just seen that supermarket branded insurance quote on the EV...

 

      

Just now, roottoot said:

Different EV's are in various Insurance Groups and not just by the Power of the motors.

Ones with the same power can fall into very different bands.

Even ones of the same value.

 

There are ones that have the Power / Performance figures from the Manufacturer that put them in a pretty low insurance band.

Ones can be the same power / performance but lower trim and in a lower band.

 

A low priced EV can be a nippy car compared to the ICE version, but not cost more to insure.

 

I hear you George...

I actually phone up the insurance and found similar across all models I asked about.

 

Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic 5, VW ID4, Volvo XC40 Recharge, Skoda Enyaq (All long range versions mind).

 

I guess it's just a case of sucking it up or finding an EV that works on that front.

 

 

3 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Just seen that supermarket branded insurance quote on the EV...

 

      

 

I just about died when I saw it. Anything over £1,300 at this point is too much for me 

 

If I were to buy an EV then I'd like one of a Mk1 Fabia size. The Corsa-e does appeal to me in that regard but it's well out of my budget sadly.