4 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

but is not valid when charging in the middle of a journey at e.g. a motorway service area or a roadside garage/charging station - where there is nothing you can do to "get on with your life" except wait for the charging to complete (or at least get far enough to complete the journey).

 

This is the point I was making, I spent about 3-5 minutes at the petrol station in Girvan, and most of that was paying for the petrol in the car. After that I was good to finish the return leg and go home. I had three passengers, and myself, of course.

Lots of Reps or 'Commercial Travellers' (Travellers) as we called them back in te 70s / 80's when they went about in mostly Fords or Vauxhalls now drive EV's and do 'Admin' work while charging.

Making calls / orders / arrangements / appointments / site visit arrangements etc. 

They can be busy busy busy and might well just sit charging Free as many do in Scotland on not very quick chargers.

£15-£20 not actually spent.

 

Now that there are more 'Quicker' more powerful chargers some only have time to grab some food, have a toilet break and then get a move on.

£20-£30 spent.

 

It was the Free to use Charge Place Scotland chargers that stopped people putting in Commercial Chargers.  

Charge Place Scotland and unreliable chargers and pathetic maintenance has more and more EV drivers totally peed off with them and getting on with life and just Splashing the cash and paying to fuel their 'Work Tool' / Transportation. 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Along with Bjorn Nyland I do like Chris from Passau Germany who does a fantastic catalogue of EV videos....  https://www.youtube.com/c/BatteryLife/videos

 

One potential useful by-product of his massive body of work is his EV spreadsheet.........

As always stunning how good the Ionic is but if it had a proper 50 kwh plus battery it would be so much better !

 

Consumption in Wh/km
					°C
	90 km/h	110 km/h	130 km/h	Month	Temp	Weather
VW eUp 2020	128	165	187	March 2020	7	Dry	Wintertyres,no gps
Hyundai Ioniq 38 kWh	104	134	163	May 2020	23	Dry
Reanult Zoe ZE50	122	158	202	June 2020	24	Dry	AC
VW eGolf	116	147	192	August 2020	30	Dry	AC
Mini Cooper SE	117	152	204	Sept 2020	17	Dry
VW Id.3 Pro	133	170	218	October 2020	12	Dry	19 inch tires
Nissan Leaf e+	159	189	234	October 2020	12	Dry	Winter tires
BMW i3s	149	186	247	March 2021	1	Dry	Winter tires
Polestar 2	194	208	258	April 2021	7	Bit wet
Mercedes EQA 250	154	198	248	April 2021	14	Dry	20 inch
Peugeot e2008	150	195	250	May 2021	11	Dry	17 inch
Kia eNiro	143	179	213	May 2021	13	Dry	17 inch
VW Id.4 Max	137	170	205	June 2021	21	Dry	21 inch
Fiat 500e	121	156	192	July 2021	25	Dry	17 inch
Volvo XC40	161	213	265	Aug 2021	23	Dry	19 inch Allseason
Tesla Model Y	123	155	187	Sept 2021	17	Dry	19 inch

 

 

 

  

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

That's a valid argument while charging at home, at work or whilst shopping - but is not valid when charging in the middle of a journey at e.g. a motorway service area or a roadside garage/charging station - where there is nothing you can do to "get on with your life" except wait for the charging to complete (or at least get far enough to complete the journey).

As I said in the post, the para you've chosen to crop out, mid-journey charging is still an issue. Double so when there's only 2 working chargers and they are both occupied (or one is broken and there's a queue, I've been there)

 

But 99.5% of my uses in my EV, I charge at home or workplace and it's vastly quicker/easier/cheaper than going to petrol station. Other 0.5% is when I miscalculated and have to suffer the public infrastructure.

 

For long journeys, I'd still use the diesel Octy for the same reason you've stated.

@lol-lol lots of facts and figures and spread sheets that show how cars are when occupied by just a driver in nearly every case.   Relevant to drivers that do drive big or small EV,s on their own with not much in them.    Putting 300 kg ballast in each time would be really useful to many wanting a family car to use carrying people and stuff. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

That's a valid argument while charging at home, at work or whilst shopping - but is not valid when charging in the middle of a journey at e.g. a motorway service area or a roadside garage/charging station - where there is nothing you can do to "get on with your life" except wait for the charging to complete (or at least get far enough to complete the journey).

 

The new format of charging station is as the Braintree one is.  There is a Costa, Smiths, Post Office, an EV area which show the latest EV, lease agreements etc.

One can spend some of that lump of cash one has saved, catch up with some emails, do that call which is a bit technical that I really should not be making on the move etc.

What is really smart is the have a 6 MWh battery storage so they should be able to buy electrically energy at 4.75 pence per kWh, or less maybe, using the super cheap overnight nuclear base load and sell it on again at their 30p a kWh, not a bad margin !  Multi-million pound investment but a sound one and one I am looking forward to trying out their 22 kw AC chargers rather than the 50 kw DC ones, the posts just to the right of the massive solar roof.........   Many of these in the planning stage include one in Plymouth.

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

Putting 300 kg ballast in each time would be really useful to many wanting a family car to use carrying people and stuff. 

 

That sounds like a good test actually.

 

I can tell you that carrying people and some items in that rough weight figure does affect the MPG in the Fabia severely, if that helps.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

The new format of charging station is as the Braintree one is.  There is a Costa, Smiths, Post Office, an EV area which show the latest EV, lease agreements etc.

One can spend some of that lump of cash one has saved, catch up with some emails, do that call which is a bit technical that I really should not be making on the move etc.

What is really smart is the have a 6 MWh battery storage so they should be able to buy electrically energy at 4.75 pence per kWh, or less maybe, using the super cheap overnight nuclear base load and sell it on again at their 30p a kWh, not a bad margin !  Multi-million pound investment but a sound one and one I am looking forward to trying out their 22 kw AC chargers rather than the 50 kw DC ones, the posts just to the right of the massive solar roof.........   Many of these in the planning stage include one in Plymouth.

That doesn't solve the problem of how long it takes to charge - it's just a sticking plaster to keep *some* (business?) people distracted - but for those with young children (I see no mention of a creche) or pets it's of no benefit.

 

I still say the EV & infrastructure solution needed by families is range at least equal to the average family petrol vehicle (i.e. 400 miles or more) and a recharge time of less than 10 minutes.

Just now, PetrolDave said:

I still say the EV & infrastructure solution needed by families is range at least equal to the average family petrol vehicle (i.e. 400 miles or more) and a recharge time of less than 10 minutes.

 

This would be fitting for our family car, was once a Mk1.5 Toyota Auris TR 1.6 which could go to Manchester, Blackpool or other places (and scoot about various places down there) and back on a single tank of Tesco's cheapest without any fuss. Our Dacia Duster 1.0 does slightly less than that, but is capable nevertheless of around 450 miles to a tank of fuel. In order for us to be able to effectively travel to places, we'd need quick charging and substantial range of 450+ miles in an ideal world.

16 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

That sounds like a good test actually.

 

I can tell you that carrying people and some items in that rough weight figure does affect the MPG in the Fabia severely, if that helps.

 

As with many vehicles, and having seized a few in my time, many driver are shocked how close they get too, or even above the max weight for the vehicle.

 

The Zoe is not allowed to be over 1988 kgs, the e-corsa even lower 1,920 kgs. As these vehicles are 1.5 or even 1.6 tonnes unladen it does not give you much to play with.

 

Just like when one looks at the lift weight it does make one do a bit of maths sometimes.  I am 6 ft 1 inch and weight 120 kgs clothed. Add a bit of business stuff, maybe the false floor as an add on and I am already at 1.75 tonnes.

 

I reckon I can take no more than two adult passengers, each with a laptop etc, and be near two tonnes.  The Zoe is not really a 5 adult car, not even a 4 adult car.

 

Fabia 2 is only allowed just over a tonne and a half, Fabia 3 only a few kilograms more.  Easily surpassed.

 

Seized one Luton and even when I had removed a tonne and half of alcohol it was still on the limit !

 

Make sure those tyres are well inflated, I run 40 psi all round as do most Zoe owners as the 36 psi recommended just shreds the tyres with the instant torque.  

 

I have only spoken with one driver of these.  He got less range than me in a car with the 50kWh battery.  No surprise there really.

 

He had the basic one but with the 75kWh battery and he got worst range than me.

With quite a lot of equipment in his van he left home charged, had to charge during the day then again before going home and then charging for the next day.

He was provided with the van and home charging and energy but expected to charge with CPS during the day or pay himself if he used a non CPS charger.

14 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Fabia 2 is only allowed just over a tonne and a half, Fabia 3 only a few kilograms more.  Easily surpassed.

 

Can't quite remember what it is for my Mk1 Fabia. Without sounding like a moron, how does one find out?

Google in your friend.  Fabia Mk1 1.2 12v Ambiente Kerb Weight.

Or the plate on the car with Max Gross Weight etc.

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

An interesting thread, of only peripheral interest to me until EVs have a range of 450 miles and can be recharged in 5 minutes even when I'm staying with friends or away on holiday in the country. 

 

For those who remember videotape recorders... EVs are like Betamax recorders, (and don't laugh but I had a V2000 recorder!) while I'm backing hydrogen cars to be like VHS recorders that came in late and then cornered the market. They also must be the only cars which get lighter as you fill the fuel tank   

 

Chris

2 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Or the plate on the car with Max Gross Weight etc.

 

 

So would it happen to be this, or similar?

1 minute ago, CJJE said:

For those who remember videotape recorders...

 

Still got a couple kicking around the house with a stash of tapes.

 

2 minutes ago, CJJE said:

They also must be the only cars which get lighter as you fill the fuel tank

 

I mean, if we used helium then we'd have flying cars...

'130 miles on a trip read out.'    Bl00dy amazing if you are on your own. 

  What we really need to know is how far you get with driver & a Rugby Sevens side in it with their kit. 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, roottoot said:

'130 miles on a trip read out.'    Bl00dy amazing if you are on your own. 

  What we really need to know is how far you get with driver & a Rugby Sevens side in it with their kit. 

 

 

 

 

UK does not get the proper 75 kwh battery spec that Europe gets, presumably because of the measly EV support bung of £2.5k compared to 2 or 3 times that over the channel. 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I reckon I can take no more than two adult passengers, each with a laptop etc, and be near two tonnes.  The Zoe is not really a 5 adult car, not even a 4 adult car.

 

I fail to understand that if it's not suitable for said use, why do Renault advertise it as such? 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

That doesn't solve the problem of how long it takes to charge - it's just a sticking plaster to keep *some* (business?) people distracted - but for those with young children (I see no mention of a creche) or pets it's of no benefit.

 

I still say the EV & infrastructure solution needed by families is range at least equal to the average family petrol vehicle (i.e. 400 miles or more) and a recharge time of less than 10 minutes.

 

To be honest a range of 320 miles and a charge time as little as 18 minutes is here.

The chargers need to improve, but it's not a million miles away.

 

How you get all the batteries, then recycle them, then make the cars affordable however....

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by cheezemonkhai

1 minute ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

I fail to understand that if it's not suitable for said use, why do Renault advertise it as such? 

 

Well even UK Auto-express say it is generously sized for a Super Mini, I just do not think so but then we are well above average heights in my family.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/zoe/practicality#:~:text=As a full five-seater,for any supermini out there.

 

As a full five-seater with a 338-litre boot, the Zoe is a wiser choice than the Volkswagen e-up! if you regularly carry passengers and luggage. In fact, the packaging is so impressive that the car’s accommodation is pretty much a match for any supermini out there.  

Leg room, head room & passenger space

There’s a decent amount of space in the Zoe for five occupants, and the rear seats will even accommodate six-footers on a short journey. However, the upright seating position means they may not be terribly comfortable for long. "

 

The UK does not get a whole heap of cars, we should be thankful to get cars made in RHD at all, even though, according to KPMG, we end up paying about 6% more than LHD cars as the smaller run of parts etc adds to the parts.  My eldest daughter's beau is 6 foot 4-ish, his brother nearly 6 foot 10, drives a Passat I think.

 

I would not want to be in the back of the Zoe for more than an hour if both front seats were most the way back as I have it when driving.  Press say the very popular PSA 208 platform is slightly less generous for space but these are Fabia sized vehicles and not Gold sized. The new EV Megane will address this space issue I expect for us who are more than one standard deviation above average UK height.   

With a 208 / Corsa with any drivetrain so not just the EV you can forget about an adult sitting behind a driver that needs the seat fully back and down unless they are a double lower limb amputee. 

@cheezemonkhai In that EV with 320 mile range how far more are you getting if you jump on a 150 kW charger for 18 minutes having gone 310 miles, 

or even on a 350kW charger?

How long on a 150kW one before you are back to having another 320 miles range?

3 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@cheezemonkhai In that EV with 320 mile range how far more are you getting if you jump on a 150 kW charger for 18 minutes having gone 310 miles, 

or even on a 350kW charger?

How long on a 150kW one before you are back to having another 320 miles range?

 

EV is the Kia EV6 with the 320 mile range .

The 18 minutes is I think from 10-80%, (using a >=250kW high power charger) so that's enough to get you well on your way over a quick stretch and a bathroom break at the services.

On a 150, I guess it's going to take 30 minutes for similar, but you know still enough if you're pulling in around 20%, adding 60% then going along again.

 

Of course the problems are the lack of the highest power chargers and the high cost of the vehicles is a big problem (It's around 50k, which is too much for a family car for most people.)

 

 

 

 

When 150kW chargers become common and there is a price to charge on them anyplace they are in the UK which is the same then things will be moving on as it should in the UK.

 

Then Automated Toilets beside all charging Hubs and not just a tree, hedge or Green Cabinet to try and hide behind. 

People will pay £1 to go spend a penny.

 

There need to be the likes of Special Constables around the country but 'Special EV Charger Maintenance Staff' that can deal with 'minor issues' or call out the 'relevant maintenance operatives' when required and in a timely manner.

Plenty 'Contractors or Trades People' even in Rural Areas that could be those 'Specials'.    This is not just something needed in Scotland. 

 

The Government / Governments know the HGV / Transport Stops / Hubs are required so they need to stop planning delays and 'Local Authority delays'  where they think that Local Services will suffer because Multi Nationals are going to build the facilities and their local Wealthy Family  who have run stuff for years at their garages will lose out.   After all they sometimes give to a local charity. 

 

70 kWh @ 69 pence = £48.30 which is OK to be able to Hypercharge on a 350 kW charger. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot