1 hour ago, 310golfr said:

ev cars are still too expensive to buy /lease  for most households though, even with the so called incentives , and what about the small matter of government fuel duty loses.

the official figure is 58% plus vat, personally i think they will already have plans in place to re-coup this loss

one things for sure, you aint getting away with it   😂

 

Well my EV is only £280 pm and I have seen Renault offer deals of £199 pm with a few less miles per year and less than a couple of K deposit and then with the massive saving one makes by only spending a fraction of fuel costs it is easy to be quids in with running costs of between 34 and 38 ppm. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/car-running-costs-calculator?Years=4&Miles=80000&CarType=&Manufacturer=renault&Model=zoe&CO2From=&CO2To=&BIKPriceFrom=&BIKPriceTo=&SortBy=IsFleetPick&SortDesc=False&FuelType=

 

Having spent a decade working for HMRC, then half a decade with pwc, another half a decade working on tax declaration and avoidance software and the last decade helping firms minimise taxation I expect there will continue to be massive opportunities to continue to pay less tax than otherwise if one understands and maximise the tax system as are many of the new Tesla and EV owners but at the same time carrying out UK and international wishes to reduce CO2 as well as get a great featured car on their company schemes of getting a work car.

 

Fuel (excise) duty is 57.95 pence per litre and then there is VAT at 20% on both the excise duty and the value of the fuel.  Very difficult to go after electricity when it can be obtained from any one of the billions of 3 pin socket, I was just using a outlet in the warehouse this afternoon, no way of knowing if it was charging a forklift or a heater or any other electrical appliance.  UK government has already planned to help its tragic balance of payments by whacking up NI for employees and employer, so that will fall on employees mainly then, unless one use lots of salary sacrifice of course for pension, car purchase and other such approved schemes where one can avoid much of the new NI hit and effectively lowering of tax allowance as they are not going up with the rocketing inflation which is running at 4 to 6 % depending on which measure one prefers.

   

12 hours ago, 310golfr said:

another thing that people dont realise with ev and you dont hear mentioned, is the batteries degrading

all batteries degrade, my laptop battery, my golf trolley battery , my power tool batteries all dont last as long as they did when new.

so if a new ev battery gives 200 mile range when new, after a few years that's going to drop and along with the drop in cold weather, you might be getting less than half the range of new

when  ev's  get to an age where expensive batteries are neeeding replaced, there valve will drop like a stone

 

Not a big concerns as Renault and the other EV manufacturers warranty the batteries typically for 8 years and that they are still holding 75% charge.  Number of ICE cars I have run on the rolling road after a few tens of thousands of miles on them and they are showing half the power at the rear wheels the engine is quoted as having when it was new.

 

EV batteries are also guarantee for quite substantial mileage ie 100k is typical and there are EVs with two and three times that mileage.

Eventually, probably after at least 10 years but probably more like 15 or more, we still do not really know as EVs tend to be no more than a decade old, they can be, and we do this for older LMP batteries my company has made, we put them in to banks within various sizes of steel frames and wire them together and use them in remote places, typically Africa with us, to provide overnight power to communities of grid deep in the Africa interior.

 

I expect my R135 ZE50 Zoe to be a useful car within the family well in to the 2030s when ICE cars at banned from sale and most of the public would be too embarrassed to use one anyways knowing damage they do driving them around when most cars are EVs.

 

Still seeing 200 mile range even with mornings at 5C and pelting it around as if range anxiety is something for others to worry about as it is not a problem for me for the vast majority of journeys I am undertaking. 

 

11 hours ago, roottoot said:

@310golfr

Lots of people do not realise lots of things and lots of things are misunderstood by people that do not bother to look into them.   People buying an EV or Leasing might well look at the Warranty / Guarantee and what the Battery Life / Percentage is after however many miles / km or period of time.  It might not be of any importance to them.  Many are not buying a keeper, but many have a keeper and knows about their cars batteries.    People with a Nissan, Kia / Hyundai, Tesla  might have more to go on than those getting a VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat. JLR, PSA etc  who's history of full electrics are not very long.  Cars with many years on the road and charging and rapid charging tell a story.  Used prices are not what they were... They are higher

 

 

Ouch, 8 to 9 % loss in capacity in his 25k km first 14 months of ownership, seems high to me and does not reflect well on the VW Group ie his 58 kwh ID3 down to 54 kwh.

He does reckon all that AC charging knackered it a bit, I am going to avoid that as much as possible and stick to 2, 3.6, 7.2, 11 or 22 kw AC charging I reckon.

 

keep meaning to get the try and get the bluetooth ODBC and right software but that seems to be an issue on the ZE50 as it is not the same as the ZE40.

Renault say ZOe battery is 55 kwh with 52 useable but Bjorn N had it measured well below 50 on one of his tests !

 

 

21 hours ago, 310golfr said:

another thing that people dont realise with ev and you dont hear mentioned, is the batteries degrading

all batteries degrade, my laptop battery, my golf trolley battery , my power tool batteries all dont last as long as they did when new.

so if a new ev battery gives 200 mile range when new, after a few years that's going to drop and along with the drop in cold weather, you might be getting less than half the range of new

 

when  ev's  get to an age where expensive batteries are neeeding replaced, there valve will drop like a stone

 

The one that’s leading my search has a 7 year warranty on the battery, others have 5/10. I don’t know what vw group are offering.

 

I don’t think it’s a problem for a lease/pcp and hand back.

 

Besides, when fuel hits £2 a litre and ICE cars are banned from city centres you could claim their values will tank. Right now whichever way you go you run a risk.

10 hours ago, BoxerBoy said:

And I think the “free charging”. Free this. Free that is all smoke and mirrors.

 

As for “all so green in the garden”. Are we remembering how batteries are made? And disposed of.

I agree for free stuff would never last. End of the day, it's much easier to just charge at home overnight and get ~3p per mile. 

 

Since COVID, my mileage (Sep 2020 to Sep 2021) in Skoda diesel have dropped from 8k to just 2k. While between MOT mileage in Leaf only dropped slightly from 8k down to 6k. This 6k less diesel miles have saved me about £600 in fuel alone. 

 

Unlike fossil fuel, batteries are not single use. They are made with embedded carbon footprint today, but after life in EV, they would be re-used as stationary storage. After they have completely exhausted their usefulness in 20 years time, they can be recycled. 

 

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. In this order, for everything. 

Reduce desired mileage requirement in EV's and demand higher efficiency for more miles instead. Reuse battery after their life in vehicles, finally recycle it. 

This is part of my company that do numerous microgrid solutions in Africa and Asia......  (Our solid state LMP batteries)

 

All-solid-state energy storage can be a reliable, long lasting, high-performance micro-grids solution for Rural Electrification in remote, hot, and extreme weather environments. Blue Solutions is becoming the default solution for Africa where we have deployed over 30 projects in 20 countries.

 

 

 

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

Its all too much for many who just want to charge and drive and charge and drive.  If it costs them then it costs them. 

That is many many EV drivers.

 

 

I am still checking daily how much i use in electric each day only doing around 6 miles a day with 8-10  short hop trips of no more than 0.7 miles.

I will start now leaving it to just 90% charged and topping up each day and see the difference from it being charged to 99%. 

 

It is next week before i have a planned multiday trip with a few hundred miles driving.

There should be snow by that time...

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Does anyone know much about the BP Pulse charging or is this better off on a whole seperate thread?

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

Its all too much for many who just want to charge and drive and charge and drive.  If it costs them then it costs them. 

That is many many EV drivers.

I am still checking daily how much i use in electric each day only doing around 6 miles a day with 8-10  short hop trips of no more than 0.7 miles.

I will start now leaving it to just 90% charged and topping up each day and see the difference from it being charged to 99%. 

It is next week before i have a planned multiday trip with a few hundred miles driving.     There should be snow by that time...

 

 

Good advice I think not to push every charge to 100% but to call off most charges at around the 90% mark.  In the Zoe the regen does not work fully in the ninety percents and the regen makes such a significant difference to consumption ie mile per kWh as the regen made electricity is counted as not charge electricity and really helps the net figure of energy consumption.

 

Still not been under 30% despite not fill to full and doing several 100 to 125 mile journeys and now driving at full motorway speeds much of the time and having lots of fun playing traffic like challenge where the EV takes of like a scalded cat up to 30 or 40 mph in 3 and a bit seconds.

 

Eco button is on and off like a toggling switch as much just to keep me to 65 mph rather than exceeding 80 which I seem to do far too easily now.  It either seems like the Zoe is becoming run-in and feels a bit quicker or I am just getting use to using the zip.  I just once want to see the dashboard come up with the overspeed message which kicks in around 95-100 mph.  Video below of Zoe shouting at driver with 158 kph on the clock.... 

  

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

BP Pulse as shown on ZapMap.

 

I have put Credit on my PodPoint account to use their 25 pence a kWh 50 Kw chargers @ Lidl next week if i need to rather than than the BP Pulse ones, 

that is only if the free to use CPS once are out of order. 

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

34 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Does anyone know much about the BP Pulse charging or is this better off on a whole seperate thread?

Now this one is probably better in its own thread, or at least in one of the actual charging threads as they are much maligned on Twitter, Zap-map etc.  Maybe the mods can move these posts if it becomes a discussion?

 

 FWIW I have used twice, both on the same post. One charge worked with no issue. The other didn't work and locked my cable to the post....

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by Luckypants

3 hours ago, Luckypants said:

Now this one is probably better in its own thread, or at least in one of the actual charging threads as they are much maligned on Twitter, Zap-map etc.  Maybe the mods can move these posts if it becomes a discussion?

 

 FWIW I have used twice, both on the same post. One charge worked with no issue. The other didn't work and locked my cable to the post....

 I've started a thread on home charging options:

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499379-home-charger-options/

11 hours ago, lol-lol said:

This is part of my company that do numerous microgrid solutions in Africa and Asia......  (Our solid state LMP batteries)

 

All-solid-state energy storage can be a reliable, long lasting, high-performance micro-grids solution for Rural Electrification in remote, hot, and extreme weather environments. Blue Solutions is becoming the default solution for Africa where we have deployed over 30 projects in 20 countries.

 

 

 

 

 

Today was a typical Scottish day.  Grey. Wind.  Rain. No sun.

 

There is no way on earth that we shall ever have enough sunshine in daylight hours to (a) see us through the day and (b) fill a few batteries to see us through the night.

 

Can't remember if I read it on here or in a newspaper -someone reckons the sunshine will keep us going 24 hours a day.

 

As for windmills that run occasionally.

@BoxerBoydo you ever get out and about around Scotland much and away from your home area?

Do you actually see the wind farms and turbines that are in operation?

There are plenty that are not because they are paid not to be generating electric as there is no means of storing what is not used unless going to Pumped Hydro or to produce Hydrogen.

  https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-59302336

 

http://gridwatch.co.uk

 

It was not a typical Scottish day all around Scotland other than typically it was different in parts of Scotland.

So the Solar Farms and canopies were generating electricity in places, and wind turbines on or offshore were and hydro can tonight if and when needed.

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

5 minutes ago, BoxerBoy said:

 

 

Today was a typical Scottish day.  Grey. Wind.  Rain. No sun.

 

There is no way on earth that we shall ever have enough sunshine in daylight hours to (a) see us through the day and (b) fill a few batteries to see us through the night.

 

Can't remember if I read it on here or in a newspaper -someone reckons the sunshine will keep us going 24 hours a day.

 

As for windmills that run occasionally.

 

I suppose that why  the setups are between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn where there is loads of sun shine.

 

Scotland is perhaps the most wind rich country in Europe but this year has been oddly weird, an Atlantic La Nina or something as wind has been lowest in 50 years.  Tidal and wave power are much more consistent and reliable though one might need to store for more like a fortnight rather than half a day.

 

My source of cheap electricity is nuclear as that is where those power stations are whacking out tens of Gigawatts and very low prices after midnight until people get up for work.

The pump storage stations in Scotland, Wales and Norway all feed the UK grid as well as nuclear here and in France. Lots of plan to increase pump storage in Scotland as well as battery storage stations to temporarily hold as this made power that needs a storage place for a few hours or maybe longer.   Some may use their EVs as temp storage place but I doubt I will even if they pay me a few pence per kilowatt.

 

18 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Do you actually see the wind farms and turbines that are in operation?

 

I know this isn't aimed at me but aye, actually. Most of the ones over at Straiton are running (I can't confirm if they are at this second since it's dark, but yes).

They are operating on shore or offshore all about Scotland and some are off because the wind speeds are too high and some are off because the grid can not or will not take the electricity.

There are Solar Farms like at Errol or Mackies Farms that generate plenty power which they can use or store.

 

All about using a mixture of sources for the energy required. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

<snip>but this year has been oddly weird, an Atlantic La Nina or something as wind has been lowest in 50 years. 

 

I have noticed this very much this year. Partly because I have an EV and the prices going up due to gas has made me wonder where all the wind power is and partly because I live on the edge of one of the TAN8 areas in Wales for wind energy, so have several windfarms around me. Got me thinking, what if climate change renders one of the UKs main 'weapons' in the fight to reduce emissions useless? (Like low wind this year)

33 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

I have noticed this very much this year. Partly because I have an EV and the prices going up due to gas has made me wonder where all the wind power is and partly because I live on the edge of one of the TAN8 areas in Wales for wind energy, so have several windfarms around me. Got me thinking, what if climate change renders one of the UKs main 'weapons' in the fight to reduce emissions useless? (Like low wind this year)

 

Funny enough having been a merchant navy sailor I think I can shed some light on this.  Whilst there has been somewhat less wind there still has been quite a bit it is just relative and whilst the Earth continues to tilt its 23 degree 27 minutes 8.26 seconds each summer and winters and our star Sol keeps shining there will be some weather changes.

 

As Montgomery Scott says "you canny change the laws of physics "......       

(Albedo is the fraction of light reflected from the Earth back in to space)

 

Edited 19 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol