14 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Clearly you do not understand the Oxbridge system...   ALL degrees from Oxbridge, whether sciences, engineering or otherwise were historically BA's and then MA's. as they have only recently switched to using other nomenclatures for certain areas of study. 

 

Sad that you use your lack of knowledge to denigrate others.

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Facts are EV do not produce emissions from combustion.

EVs hardly use their brake as they use Regen.

 

EV are usually a bit heavier but at 1.6 tonnes it is hardly heavier than many ICEs, heavier than a Kodiaq which can be over 1.7T curb weight ?

 

The key take away seems to be that certain poor quality tyres give off loads of PMs. The Zoe came with Michelin Primacy tyres so not cheap lower or even mid range tyres. 

 

We have really problems to sort out here and go do without Donald Trumpesque is-information when the world is at stake.

  

 

EV's do brake and still have brakes.

 

1.6 Tonnes is significantly heavier than, say a Clio at 1.2tonnes.  A Kodiaq is not a reasonable comparison against a sprat like the Zoe.  However, A Mercedes EQC 4matic might be but is nearly 3 tonnes.

 

The take away is ALL tyres result in NEE emissions, even expensive Michelins and they emit more the heavier the vehicle.

 

As for mis-information - I think you'll find the ERV Evangelists are just as bad.

 

Don't get me wrong - I drive a mild hybrid and will switch to EV as soon as they suit my lifestyle but I don't fall for some of the bull**** that is spouted about them and I have a habit of questioning and looking at the bigger picture beyond the end of my confirmational biased nose.  👍

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

 

I don't wish to sound obnoxious but you don't do your arguments any favours.

 

Anyhow I'll leave it there as I see you're resorting to your usual distraction discussion tactics...

1 minute ago, skomaz said:

 

EV's do brake and still have brakes.

 

1.6 Tonnes is significantly heavier than, say a Clio at 1.2tonnes.  A Kodiaq is not a reasonable comparison against a sprat like the Zoe.  However, A Mercedes EQC 4matic might be but is nearly 3 tonnes.

 

The take away is ALL tyres result in NEE emissions, even expensive Michelins and they emit more the heavier the vehicle.

 

As for mis-information - I think you'll find the ERV Evangelists are just as bad.

 

Don't get me wrong - I drive a mild hybrid and will switch to EV as soon as they suit my lifestyle but I don't fall for some of the bull**** that is spouted about them and I have a habit of questioning and looking at the bigger picture beyond the end of my confirmational biased nose.  👍

 

If weight of vehicle is such a big deal then cars around the 1 to two tonnes mark is going to be small beer compared to trucks at 16, 32 and 44 tonnes.

 

I recall reading reports when the max tonnage for trucks was to go from 38 tonnes to a 44 tonnes and all the concern about that, might have been in my year with Department for Transport before joining HMRC, thereabout.  Once of the equations on damage for the axle weight to the forth power which worried the Dept Boffins that the damage would be huge.

 

If we need another test on the tyres ie so they include Fuel economy, Wet grip, Noise and purpose, but one for PM production and import controls that we do not get really poor ones arrive on the UK market.  New EU labels  Regulation (EU) 2020/740.  Perhaps next time if we keep up with EU standards.

 

 

10 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I don't wish to sound obnoxious but you don't do your arguments any favours.

 

Anyhow I'll leave it there as I see you're resorting to your usual distraction discussion tactics...

 

I like to hear some of good ideas and experience from some of my learned colleagues who have had EVs and I am enjoying the first steps on EV ownership.

 

As to others I have thought for some time that Darwin rules.  I have taken onboard what some of the EV adopters have expounded and done my own research.

When the fuel crisis came, same as the massive UK government tax rises it is just a technical problem as an analyst to work around.  I would like to think 1 person or a few might be swayed and adopt EVs sooner rather than later if not we all are buggered but in the mean time I will do my bit whilst the majority follow the Pied Piper.  At least there is comedy......

 

 

 

 

 

Quite….

 

TBH EV weigh loads and comparing a 208 to an SUV is a bit of a joke. The lithium and cobalt in batteries is horrible for both the planet and people.

 

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would probably be better in terms of weight etc, especially when full of fuel 😂😂

 

So why am I considering one? Too many ULEZ in the places we go combined with plenty of 1mile journeys for SWMBO.

 

 

57 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would probably be better in terms of weight etc, especially when full of fuel 😂😂

 

The concept of hydrogen fuel cells in cars fascinates me. Especially that Zafira that GM put together.

 

See here.

Have you checked out the honda clarity fcv and the hyundai nexo?

Edited 8 November, 20214 yr by skomaz

21 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

hydrogen fuel cells in cars fascinates me. Especially that Zafira that GM put together

Can you say "rolling bomb"?

Just now, KenONeill said:

Can you say "rolling bomb"?

 

Depends on how much of the Glenfiddich bottle I've necked...

13 hours ago, roottoot said:

50 kWh with 45 kWh usable & getting 3 miles per kWh is good when that is 135 miles, or better 3.5 miles per kWh so 157.5 miles or so.

If just 5 miles in a 24 hour day uses 5kWh then there is something pretty crap.

the 5 kW can take you 15 miles of driving without even needing to get much or even any regen. 

Must just be my car that is using up electricity like it is going out of fashion. 

I have no fancy features that should be draining the battery like the Teslas.

& Not particularly cold so far this month.

Fantastic.

 

Seen a few vids of this guy "Batterylife" doing his quite useful and technical videos and I think he rivals Bjorn N for superb details about cruising speeds, temperature effect on range and this one on charging efficiency.

 

Strong case for not using the 3 pin home charger with its 20% losses but all the other chargers seem pretty similar.  I had started to get worried that my little 3.6 kwh charger was a big mistake and I should look at an early upgrade to 7 kw or even a twin outlet charger but he had the efficiency percentage pretty similar.

 

Also very interesting that the 50 something kwh ID3 was not charging at above 50 kw even when plugged in to a 100 kw charger compared to 50 kw charger.

Also Mr Batterylife makes a throw away comment that the 3,5,11 kw chargers are best for battery life, presumably compared to regular use of fast DC ie 50 kw and above.

 

The two vids on Tesla energy consumption is interesting as the power consumption in full protection mode is huge and can leave the car dead after a couple of weeks !

Reminds me of the David Crowe Dry Bar sketch....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

9 hours ago, lol-lol said:

3 pin home charger with its 20% losses

Where do these losses actually occur? If they do occur at all that is.

13 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Where do these losses actually occur? If they do occur at all that is.

Not sure, might be powering  the electronics that manages charging? That's like a base-load that is constant and proportionally smaller at 7kW. 

For rapid charging, the loss would be heat loss. Bjorn EV youtube channel talks about this a lot. It's where a percentage of power is lost as heat from battery's internal resistance. 

 

I think I've read somewhere that the most efficient charge rate is 7-11kW. Minimum heat loss. 

I do not think there is a loss just the car needing to use energy as the battery is charging to control stuff and there is the difference of a driver sitting in a car as I am now with stuff like chrome book and phone plugged in heater on etc compared to charging and locking the car.     I am charging again this morning having only done 5 miles again since yesterday but a 6% drop in charge.  When I get home I am going to charge to 100% and leave the car parked for 24 hours to see the drop in battery percentage.    Then I might try 48 hours and if the battery drop is going to be as much as it is the car will be getting left at Arnold Clarks for a few days.   Unlikely any software updates will make any difference.  Unlikely they can do them anyway regardless of how long they have the car.     EDIT.   The the 6% indicated less energy in the car.  It only takes slightly less than 5kWh to charge back up.  So a 50 kWh battery if it is actually that means a 10% used for 5 miles / 24 hours. 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

21 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Problem is that drivers want at least 22 kwh chargers rather than the 7 kwh and even near useless 3 kwh chargers and of course preferably the 50 kwh DC and above chargers to make charge time in the matter of a few minutes rather than an hour or two as with 22 kwh and even longer than that for those chargers below 22 kwh AC.

Surely it's not an unreasonable expectation to expect that a new car can be "refuelled" in the same time that the car it replaced?

 

Going from a few minutes to a few hours is not going to be seen as a positive step by many people, especially those with small children to keep entertained whilst waiting, or those who just regard a car as a box that gets them from A to B.

5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

It's where a percentage of power is lost as heat from battery's internal resistance.

So what he's actually saying is that charging an EV incurs a 600Wh power loss?

10 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Going from a few minutes to a few hours is not going to be seen as a positive step by many people, especially those with small children to keep entertained whilst waiting, or those who just regard a car as a box that gets them from A to B.

 

The charging time is a potential issue which also holds me back from going to a 'leccy motor (pushing affordability and other factors to one side for just a moment). I've got a Spaniel and a 10 y/o brother, and they're as hyper as each other. Going on holiday to Portpatrick, to give an example - in a scenario where the car would need charged - is a problem as the dog gets restless, as does my wee brother as they're both pretty impatient and don't travel too good.

 

Certainly, I could leave them at home and go on holiday myself, but I'd rather they weren't in the huff.

6 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

So what he's actually saying is that charging an EV incurs a 600Wh power loss?

3-pin is 10 amps, so using 0.45 kW to run electrics is not unusual.

Sure it can be more optimised, but 0.3-0.5 kW is the usual power draw I see shown as "other" when driving normally.  In Leaf there's 3 figures showing traction power, then there's climate power and finally "other".

 

14 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Surely it's not an unreasonable expectation to expect that a new car can be "refuelled" in the same time that the car it replaced?

 

Going from a few minutes to a few hours is not going to be seen as a positive step by many people, especially those with small children to keep entertained whilst waiting, or those who just regard a car as a box that gets them from A to B.

You stand next to the vehicle for those few minutes, holding the nozzle.

I don't think anyone would stand next to their EV while it is slow charging, everyone would spend seconds to plug in and then go get on with their lives.

So from minutes to seconds is a hugely positive step in my book.

 

Mid-journey recharging is an issue, but that is due to lack of infrastructure rather than the technology inside today's cars.

42 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Where do these losses actually occur? If they do occur at all that is.

 

Hysteresis was my first thought.  The inherent loss of converting AC to DC or visa versa.  Bigger the converter the bigger the losses...

https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2020-hysteresis-loss-in-a-transformer-and-how-it-affects-ac-circuits#:~:text=Hysteresis loss in a transformer occurs due to magnetization saturation,generated by an AC current.

 

Also George makes a good point with just losses ie showing the display when charging which is a fixed loss which will affect the smaller charging systems proportional more than the fast chargers.

 

I am more worried about damage, even slight, of fast charging repeatedly.  A happy medium of 3,7 or 11 sounds good to me, 22 at a push, I hope to avoid 50 kw charging as much as possible.

 

@AnnoyingPentium Well Girvan 50kWh might be working and might not, might be occupied with people waiting.  Ballantrae more liable to not be.   Downhill farm will cost you.  Turnberry charger does not show on ZapMap or Plugshare.   So best of luck at Stranraer or PortPatrick.   This is part of the SouthWest 300 and a total joke.  

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Re Stranraer and PortPatrick and every place else with reported faults.  It would help if people getting a charge would report in and let people know when they did last work if they do.    25 pence kWh Stranraer minimum £1 50.   Which is fine if you can get a charge.   

 

Thankfully there is a Filling Station with a Commercial charger where paying 30 pence a kWh means you will not be in trouble as can happen with Charge Place Scotland who have had £45 million plus to provide an unreliable service.

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

7 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Well Girvan 50kWh might be working and might not, might be occupied with people waiting.  Ballantrae more liable to not be.   Downhill farm will cost you.  Turnberry charger does not show on ZapMap or Plugshare.   So best of luck at Stranraer or PortPatrick.   This is part of the SouthWest 300 and a total joke.  

 

Might stick with the petrol Fabia a little longer then. Managed to go from my house to Muirkirk to get a mate, to Dumfries, Castle Douglas, Stranraer, Girvan and then back to the house after dropping my mates off via Ayr and Muirkirk. I refuelled at Girvan as the tank was getting to just below a quarter (the car had some problems that impacted MPG at the time, so was only seeing high 20s/low 30s or there abouts) and didn't want to end up stranded, £45ish to brim it. This is the mileage that was covered since I reset the computer in Bellsbank...

 

 

Didn't have to wait to get petrol in Girvan either, as the pumps were quiet.

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by AnnoyingPentium

11 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Can you say "rolling bomb"?

 

No more than a car full of petrol and brake fluid.

If there's an event that pierces the tank, then it will very quickly vent and be gone, as opposed to petrol/brake fluid that sit around and burn like nobodies business.

 

At least it would be quick in the event it did go up vs being burnt alive in a petrol fire.

@KenONeillmentions the 'Bomb' thing on occasion and each time i watch for any Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles or road tankers being reported as exploding or vehicles with LPG tanks. 

There are plenty of either on UK roads but so far no reports of catastrophes. 

 

I used to sleep & cook next to the LPG Tank in my Land Rover but then i am an idiot.

Still alive but still an idiot. 

 

When the guy at the Ferry Port wanted to dip the diesel tank and i said there was not one as it was a petrol V8 that only runs on LPG & there is not even a petrol tank he said they would have to open the tank in the back.

I never used the 'Bomb' word but told asked if he was a total moron or only half of one.

I never got on the ferry that time.  

 

 

Edited 9 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

You stand next to the vehicle for those few minutes, holding the nozzle.

I don't think anyone would stand next to their EV while it is slow charging, everyone would spend seconds to plug in and then go get on with their lives.

So from minutes to seconds is a hugely positive step in my book.

That's a valid argument while charging at home, at work or whilst shopping - but is not valid when charging in the middle of a journey at e.g. a motorway service area or a roadside garage/charging station - where there is nothing you can do to "get on with your life" except wait for the charging to complete (or at least get far enough to complete the journey).