@kodiaqsportline as I have told you in the past I have worked at Dealerships, worked on Skoda,s and owned and run Skoda,s and the sister brands.  So you be snide if you want but I will tell anyone about any car i or family have or had or about my car and work history, unlike you as a mystery as to what you do or what line of work.    As to searching the internet the links are threads and posts I was part of and I know exactly where and when I posted the stuff.  I do not need to support anything, they are there to cut to the chase and not have to always go back to all the stuff already known while there are those posting stuff they heard from someone that read it or heard it someplace but can not say who or where or why they got it so back to front

.

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

12 minutes ago, toot said:

@kodiaqsportline as I have told you in the past I have worked at Dealerships, worked on Skoda,s and owned and run Skoda,s and the sister brands.  So you be snide if you want but I will tell anyone about any car i or family have or had or about my car and work history, unlike you as a mystery as to what you do or what line of work. 

 

Absolutely.

Some of us have had about a dozen Skodas, many VRS, some L&Ks and a gaggle of normal Skodas and some of us going back to Felicia and before.   

 

We have seen Skodas gone from good value cars combining the good engineering of Eastern Europe and then western electronics making very good value cars.

We have seen many of their good single dealerships replace by poor service multi outlet multi franchise big name dealership chains.

Seen the good value go to be replaced by fugly versions that and not even as good value as the main Audi and VW offerings and SEAT has probably got some good looks to go with what is now looking like medicre offering when compared to offering.

 

As the CEO of VAG said "the roof is on fire".  VAG's future is uncertain with it massive debt burden and it needs much more money to even stand a change of surviving.

 

If there is one mainstream European brand/company that is standing for what Skoda was it is Dacia/Renault. 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/best-selling-cars-europe-2023

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/teslas-model-y-is-crushing-it-becomes-europes-best-selling-model-in-first-half-of-2023/

 

Rank	YTD 23	YTD 22	% Change
1	Tesla Model Y	125,144	211.7
2	Dacia Sandero	118,883	25.9
3	VW T-Roc	107,249	30.2
4	Opel Corsa	102,082	18.1
5	Peugeot 208	101,151	-5.1
6	Renault Clio	96,135	43.3
7	Toyota Yaris Cross	90,135	48.4
8	VW Tiguan	88,020	46.1
9	VW Golf	85,730	-1.3
10	Dacia Duster	82,813	19.5

 

 

 

  

 

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Link/source to this? 

What about visitors? 

This sounds like the car park collapse FUD. 

 

 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/second-hand-evs-are-cheaper-than-ice.179449

 

No one is forcing anyone to switch to EV. ICE are a viable choice for next 12 years. You can continue to buy second hand ICE for next 30+ years. 

The first point I currently cannot provide a link to but have it on pretty good authority from colleagues who have had to back out of some purchases of various flats in London because that was a clause in the agreement forms and I suspect in some way linked to the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017 was the ignition was blamed onto a faulty domestic fridge. There is also a requirement now for repairs involved in the repair of EV cars, especially those that have been involved in a road accident and awaiting repairs, that they are stored out in the open and at least 15 metres away from anything including any form of a structure.

 

As to visitors, with parking at a premium in London, I fully expect that they like anyone else not already allocated their own bay, have to pot luck on the road way and not allowed access to the buildings underground parking bays.

 

Multi-storey car park collapse, unlikely but I wouldn't dismiss it completely out of hand as I'm not an expert, but it could be possible. There is a multi-storey car park near me that was built some 50 odd years ago that has problems with reinforcing bars and is closed for mayor repairs Chelmsford High Chelmer car park repair work begins - BBC News It is certainly true that cars have become bigger and heavier since then and EVs are even heavier. Even blocks of flats have been known to collapse like this one killing 98 people Surfside condominium collapse - Wikipedia 

 

As to second hand EV cars being cheaper than ICE, there is a reason for that, the battery has already received a blow to its longevity and range capacity has been diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop etc. Unlike a ICE car that has been properly looked after, their Achilles heel is in the form of rust and EVs will still have this problem in addition to the battery.

 

With regard to being forced into an EV, yes we are, in 7 years time unless there is a major U turn by the UK government nobody will be able to buy a brand-new ICE car, only 2nd hand ones. So making 2nd class citizens of anyone without the funds to buy a brand-new EV (already far more expensive than their ICE versions) and then when will the forced scrappage of said ICE cars be made law?

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

The other thing I was told is that when someone tells you something, a true engineer always probes that information and that is how new discoveries are made.

 

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The first point I currently cannot provide a link to but have it on pretty good authority from colleagues who have had to back out of some purchases of various flats in London because that was a clause in the agreement forms and I suspect in some way linked to the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017 was the ignition was blamed onto a faulty domestic fridge.

You didn't use your own "life lesson".  

Why are EV's singled out "affecting fire safety of flats"? What evidence are there that EV have higher self-combust risk than ICE cars? Is it a one-case or a standard clause among flats? Could it be just flat leaseholder's lack of understanding? What is the real reason behind this clause? 

 

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

As to visitors, with parking at a premium in London, I fully expect that they like anyone else not already allocated their own bay, have to pot luck on the road way and not allowed access to the buildings underground parking bays.

Again, you "expect"? This is your assumption? 

I have been to many flats around London, every single one that has resident parking, has visitor parking spaces. 

 

15 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

EVs are even heavier

Not well designed EV's. 

Benchmark:
Tesla Model Y LR: 1986 kg, 378 bhp, 854 l boot. Tesla Model Y SUV Long Range AWD 5dr Auto specs & dimensions | Parkers

Volvo XC60 polestar engineered PHEV: 2145 kg, comparable 399 bhp, 598 l boot. Volvo XC60 SUV Polestar Engineered T8 Twin Engine AWD auto 5d specs & dimensions | Parkers
Audi SQ5 sportback diesel: 2010 kg, 336 bhp, 500 l boot. Audi Q5 Sportback SQ5 TDI Quattro 5dr Tiptronic specs & dimensions | Parkers
VW Touareg R-line tech petrol: 1945 kg 335 bhp, comparable 810 l boot Volkswagen Touareg SUV R-Line Tech 3.0 V6 TSI 340PS 4Motion Tiptronic auto 5d specs & dimensions | Parkers

 

17 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

As to second hand EV cars being cheaper than ICE, there is a reason for that, the battery has already received a blow to its longevity and range capacity has been diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop etc. Unlike a ICE car that has been properly looked after, their Achilles heel is in the form of rust and EVs will still have this problem in addition to the battery.

Where are you getting that idea from? EV are liability when old due to batteries? Is there any sources to this? 

There's a healthy scrap market for second hand batteries: 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=leaf+battery&_sacat=0

So to my mind, how would an old EV be liability when its batteries are an asset waiting to be re-used? 

 

25 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

With regard to being forced into an EV, yes we are, in 7 years time

You can still buy hybrid ICE in 7 years time until 12 years from now. Even today, it's already about 50:50 between hybrid and non-hybrid ICE. 

Ownership price parity have happened years ago for home charging. Purchase price parity will happen way before 2030. 

Lots and lots of Fleet / Lease / Hire / Motability and Ex Management (Dealers )   EV,s starting to flood the used market which is why there are reports of the top 10 depreciating cars being EV,s.

 

Buyers market then.

 

Are there restrictions other than height (so weight) that stop Defender / Range Rover / X90 / X5 / Rolls Royce / Bentley ect using car parks?

 

Are Vauxhall Zafira restricted from Car Parks due to the fire risk, or LPG / Dual Fuel vehicles, or even Skoda Superb due to reported fires?

@wyx087 Wow, did you read my earlier post where I stated that I'm not anti-EV at all, my only complaint with EV's is that soon everyone will be forced into either running an EV, or giving up driving all together and using whatever form of public transport is around when the total ban on ICE cars and hybrids comes into play. It should be in my opinion left to the individual to decide between ICE or EV, or indeed a mix of the 2 technologies.

 

I'm not an ICE evangelist either, but currently you're coming over like an EV evangelist who simply cannot hear anything said against EV's no matter how light-hearted it is or however much evidence against them is presented, lighten up a little and then we both might learn something.

 

Surely you cannot deny the fact that EVs are a major problem in the event of a fire, there is no real way of putting them out once the batteries get into a thermal runaway situation. In 2022 there was a Ro-Ro car transporter called Felicity Ace carrying a load of ICE and EV cars that caught fire and sunk, this year there was the Fremantle Highway also caught fire, and it is claimed that on the Fremantle Highway, the fire was started by an EV, although that fact has yet to be determined, and it was a suspect in the Felicity Ace fire, but it is doubtful that will ever be proven either way. However, the mere fact that EV cars were caught in the fires has turned what could well have been extinguished by the flooding of the car decks with CO2 which is the primary means of fire suppression used on such vessels, caused the fires to burn out of control. EV batteries once they enter into thermal runaway generate their own copious amounts of oxygen, thus fuelling the fire even more.

 

Have you seen a EV when the batteries go into thermal runaway and erupt fire in all directions like flamethrower on steroids, that is why damaged ones must be stored at least 15 metres away from any other object, this link refers to this EV batteries remain major challenge for insurers, Thatcham Research says | Reuters 

 

So I'll say it once more for the pure avoidance of doubt, I'm not anti EV, it is a new technology and appears to have some major drawbacks currently. Likewise I'm not a diehard ICE nerd either, I'm well aware of the dangers that both present. 

 

I'd sure hate to be in a car park where the majority of cars were EVs, in the event of fire occurring with one of them, I seriously doubt even the legendry Linford Christy could escape the resultant inferno, especially if it was an underground carpark.

@toot Not that I'm aware off 🙄 but are you really likely to get a car park full of Rolls Royces 🤣

 

On a more serious note, however, there are some car parks that have been strengthened, and I dare say there will be others Chelmsford High Chelmer car park repair work begins - BBC News 

 

wyx087 has already provided some evidence that it is a fact that EVs are not always heavier than their ICE counterparts, although I will try and confirm that because from my personal experience, the source he quoted (Parkers) is not infallible. I'd be more inclined to believe the manufacturer's own figures than a third parties. 

 

Also what would be a better example would be to quote cars where there is an EV version and also an ICE version of the same model rather than comparing a Telsa with an Audi and a Polestar with a VW.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Surely you cannot deny the fact that EVs are a major problem in the event of a fire, there is no real way of putting them out once the batteries get into a thermal runaway situation.

I never denied EV have higher risk of thermal runaway. In fact, I remember, a few pages ago when ship fire were current news, I said EV's pose a new challenge in shipping fire fighting procedures and preparedness.

 

Here's what Bedfordshire fire department has to say about EV fires:

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/electric-vehicles

Quote

How often do they occur?

Although these fires do present a real danger, fortunately for us they remain very rare.

Data obtained by Air Quality News through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with just 54 electric vehicle fires compared to 1,898 petrol and diesel fires.

Although these fires remain rare, when they do occur, they can be extremely dangerous.

During an electric vehicle fire, over 100 organic chemicals are generated, including some incredibly toxic gases such as carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide – both of which are fatal to humans.

 

 

 

You can call me whatever name you wish. I don't like grouping people into camps. My problem is when you make outlandish claims such as below, I'd like to get the facts correct. I'm always learning, and I'd happy to learn if you can provide credible sources.

  

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm not an ICE evangelist either, but currently you're coming over like an EV evangelist who simply cannot hear anything said against EV's no matter how light-hearted it is or however much evidence against them is presented, lighten up a little and then we both might learn something.

Ok, why don't you present the evidences of your claims below? because so far, after being asked, there is none!

  

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Down this part of the country there some large blocks of flats and apartments where EVs are banned from as the insurers will not provide cover for the buildings unless there are no EVs.

"On good authority" is not a credible source. If what you say is really true, why isn't there news articles about this? The tabloids love these kind of stories.

Myth or fact, only well published articles can reveal.

 

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

As to second hand EV cars being cheaper than ICE, there is a reason for that, the battery has already received a blow to its longevity and range capacity has been diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop etc. Unlike a ICE car that has been properly looked after, their Achilles heel is in the form of rust and EVs will still have this problem in addition to the battery.

Where is the source to say second hand EV batteries are a liability? That batteries in EV capacity will be "diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop"

 

I can tell you this is a myth. Fact is my 8+ years old Nissan Leaf has just under 80% capacity left (SOH figure). Which smartphone/laptop battery function like this after 8 years?

 

My car isn't a one-off. Here is crowd collected data:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/the-battery-health-thread.18923/

 

This is 2020 data regarding old Tesla battery longevity:

https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/

 

I have far better things to spend my time on, then trying to prove my point. Lets agree to disagree and wait and see what the future holds, which you have far greater chance of seeing how it pans out seeing as I'm currently 75 anyway, I'm safe in the knowledge that I can, god willing, still use a ICE car if I want to all the way up to 2050 and if I'm still here then, I doubt that I'll be driving at 102 do you?

 

One thing I don't want to do waste my time debating something that is hardly going to impact me 😉

 

 

 

The Electric Powered Vehicle fire figures are available by region for 2022.

 

The thing is there are the figures from some for electric cars and vans.

But vehicles in the numbers are electric powered vehicles which includes, scooters, bikes, wheel chairs, mobility scooters, fork lifts etc

 

Then there is where it is a building like a garage or shed that is actually gone on fire and a 'Electric vehicle' has been in that fire and not necessarily the cause of the fire.

The numbers of EV,s, BEV,s, PHEV,s might well be getting collated now and where they are going on fire because of issues with the vehicles or are in accidents, or being set on fire. 

Edited 14 August, 20232 yr by toot

4 hours ago, toot said:

The Electric Powered Vehicle fire figures are available by region for 2022.

 

The thing is there are the figures from some for electric cars and vans.

But vehicles in the numbers are electric powered vehicles which includes, scooters, bikes, wheel chairs, mobility scooters, fork lifts etc

 

Then there is where it is a building like a garage or shed that is actually gone on fire and a 'Electric vehicle' has been in that fire and not necessarily the cause of the fire.

The numbers of EV,s, BEV,s, PHEV,s might well be getting collated now and where they are going on fire because of issues with the vehicles or are in accidents, or being set on fire. 

 

In China the number of fires involving cars with traction batteries is skewed very heavily in favour of plug in hybrids rather than pure EVs, apparently by a ratio of many to one.

BYD seem to be the main culprits, yes they are the largest make of PHEVs but the numbers of car fire involving their cars is still disproportionately high....

 

The move away from lithium to lithium iron phosphate cannot come soon us as video shows.......

 

 

 

 

 

Are there many deaths in electric car fires in the UK?  Accidents or cars just combusting.    One positive must be that there are not people using a pipe from the tail pipe into the vehicle to commit sewageside (the dirty way out).     OT, there was a place I worked where sadly a member of staff took the vacuum hose away and killed themself in their vehicle.  It was weeks before we got a new vacuum cleaner delivered. 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I have far better things to spend my time on, then trying to prove my point. Lets agree to disagree and wait and see what the future holds, which you have far greater chance of seeing how it pans out seeing as I'm currently 75 anyway, I'm safe in the knowledge that I can, god willing, still use a ICE car if I want to all the way up to 2050 and if I'm still here then, I doubt that I'll be driving at 102 do you?

 

One thing I don't want to do waste my time debating something that is hardly going to impact me 😉

So you are very happy to make wild claims (in earlier post) without referencing evidences to back it up. Noted. 

 

It appears you cannot hear anything said against your claims no matter however much evidence against them is presented. Read a bit more outside mainstream media and you might learn something  

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

you're coming over like an EV evangelist who simply cannot hear anything said against EV's no matter how light-hearted it is or however much evidence against them is presented, lighten up a little and then we both might learn something.

 

Happy to be name called and be put into any camp, I don't care. 

I just want to get the facts straight. As always, I'm happy to be change my view as long as I'm presented with credible sources. 

23 hours ago, Luckypants said:

@cheezemonkhaiWhat do you regard as too slow to charge? 11kW 3-phase is pretty much standard on all EVs and VW cars support this. VW 77kWh battery cars charge at up to 170kW DC and even my 2021 ID.4 can now charge at that rate with the software updates VW have released. The 58kWh battery cars can charge at 125kW (owners report actual speeds can be higher). These speeds are competitive with anything else on the market in my opinion.

I either drive short journeys around town, at which point it doesn’t matter or more often full range+ in each direction.
 

Was sat 350kW chargers the other day, with screaming child in car. An EQS, ioniq5, myself were all charging around 200kW. There was an MG5 getting under 50 and the owner said it was the limit. The less than 2 year old id4 was getting 49kW when I looked & under 50% full. The kids were asking the driver when could they go. We changed/fed the baby used the facilities and were on our way with the motion brink back silence.

 

I’m guessing the id4 has the same charger as the enyaq. Frankly I’ve not seen any 400v car (Tesla on super chargers excluded) get anywhere near the claimed speeds, but do realise some people must be.

 

You say owners are reporting higher and that’s genuinely great, but it isn’t my experience. When I talk to people at rapid chargers, polestar, Volvo, MG, VW, Audi and one enyaq that I can think of they’re amazed how fast the Kia, Hyundai and Porsche charge and are gone. Tesla on ionity seem to take ages too mind, so maybe it’s not just the car.

 

For me around 20-30 minutes should be the maximum time to add 200 miles. It’s enough time to use the facilities, grab a drink and have a stretch without extending the journey time excessively. I got stuck on a 50kW gridserve giving out less than 30 and after 45 minutes had had enough and had enough to reach some 350s.
 

VW group recognise this on their premium cars as the Q8 and other new Audi vehicles are moving to 800V. Time is definitely a precious commodity.

 

Also faster chargers and faster charging should mean less queues.

 

3 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

For me around 20-30 minutes should be the maximum time to add 200 miles. It’s enough time to use the facilities, grab a drink and have a stretch without extending the journey time excessively.

I would suggest that 20-30 minutes would be a time many (most?) people would find acceptable.

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@toot Not that I'm aware off 🙄 but are you really likely to get a car park full of Rolls Royces 🤣

 

On a more serious note, however, there are some car parks that have been strengthened, and I dare say there will be others Chelmsford High Chelmer car park repair work begins - BBC News 

 

wyx087 has already provided some evidence that it is a fact that EVs are not always heavier than their ICE counterparts, although I will try and confirm that because from my personal experience, the source he quoted (Parkers) is not infallible. I'd be more inclined to believe the manufacturer's own figures than a third parties. 

 

Also what would be a better example would be to quote cars where there is an EV version and also an ICE version of the same model rather than comparing a Telsa with an Audi and a Polestar with a VW.

Look at an EV6 and i5 which in AWD weigh about 2 tonnes. That’s no worse than their SUV models with an auto gearbox and lighter than plenty of other popular SUV. 
 

We don’t hear stories of car parks being strengthened because everyone drives around in 2+ tonnes SUV.

 

9 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

I would suggest that 20-30 minutes would be a time many (most?) people would find acceptable.

 

I can only give my opinion but obviously agree. No family or business driver objects to a bathroom and coffee stop. 
Hour long charges Gower extend the journey time too much, particularly if you need to queue.

What is not acceptable  and is quite common now in Scotland is where the Public chargers are a max 50 kW and these Big Battery vehicles with very fast charging capability are parked for several hours and left to charge to 100% and to even cut out and are locked in and left there.

Even where the tariff is 35 pence or 55 pence a kWh with a 40 minute time limit and £1 a  minute after that to a max charge of £60.

(Park & Rides Edinburgh City, 55 pence a kWh, 60 mins max charge, then a fine but drivers still park, charge, set for 60 minutes and leave the car for hours, 

no policing of the chargers, no clamping, no penalty / fine.)

 

There are people happy to pay that extra charge time of £1 a minute and stuff the others that just want 30 or maybe 40 minutes on that charger.

 

PS

New issue.

Certain drivers of certain EV,s that you can use to power stuff like the caravan.

Going to EV chargers that are free or cheap and charging the car to use to power the caravan. 

 

There are South Ayrshire and elsewhere have caravan sites / holiday parks with a 7 kW AC charger or 3 for customers but the tariffs are crazy at some.

I have met people that are staying on these sites in residential vans but coming to the free chargers and might or might get on them, maybe not the rapids because there are ones out of order.

Yesterday i was speaking to someone that charged at the site they were staying at because they had not got a charge at the council chargers and they paid £30 to get around 150 miles of range,  70 pence a kWh for 40 kWh to be sure they had enough for their day away and maybe not getting a charge. 

 

There are those that just want to charge there car and have not been able to get on a rapid of fast charger because they are blocked by EV,s charging to full.

Some by cars i know the people live close by and are just there to fill up free.

 

The visitors are surprised to find that if they get a charge it is free gratis.  Then they know why they have not got on chargers.

The greed and ignorance of others.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot

9 minutes ago, toot said:

What is not acceptable  and is quite common now in Scotland is where the Public chargers are a max 50 kW and these Big Battery vehicles with very fast charging capability are parked for several hours and left to charge to 100% and to even cut out and are locked in and left thee.

Even where the tariff is 35 pence or 55 pence a kWh with a 40 minute time limit and £1 a  minute after that to a max charge of £60.

 

There are people happy to pay that extra charge time of £1 a minute and stuff the others that just want 30 or maybe 40 minutes on that charger.

Totally agree, but is that also a sign that there are not enough chargers to go round? I think that if there were more of them, it would encourage greater take up of EVs? Most petrol stations have around 8 pumps and if you are lucky there might be 2 chargers. How many ICE cars could be served in 60 minutes compared to EV's, that is a major block to people converting over. Also, I thought that charging to 100% reduces the battery life, aren't you only supposed to charge to something like 80%?

19 minutes ago, toot said:

What is not acceptable  and is quite common now in Scotland is where the Public chargers are a max 50 kW and these Big Battery vehicles with very fast charging capability are parked for several hours and left to charge to 100% and to even cut out and are locked in and left thee.

Even where the tariff is 35 pence or 55 pence a kWh with a 40 minute time limit and £1 a  minute after that to a max charge of £60.

 

There are people happy to pay that extra charge time of £1 a minute and stuff the others that just want 30 or maybe 40 minutes on that charger.

 

PS

New issue.

Certain drivers of certain EV,s that you can use to power stuff like the caravan.

Going to EV chargers that are free or cheap and charging the car to use to power the caravan. 

 

There are South Ayrshire and elsewhere have caravan sites / holiday parks with a 7 kW AC charger or 3 for customers but the tariffs are crazy at some.

I have met people that are staying on these sites in residential vans but coming to the free chargers and might or might get on them, maybe not the rapids because there are ones out of order.

Yesterday i was speaking to someone that charged at the site they were staying at because they had got a charge at the council chargers and they paid £30 to get around 150 miles of range,  70 pence a kWh for 40 kWh to be sure they had enough for their day away and maybe not getting a charge. 

I was going to suggest an idle charge to stop them, but if £1 a minute doesn’t do it there is limited hope. Maybe they don’t realise until they get the fine?

23 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I either drive short journeys around town, at which point it doesn’t matter or more often full range+ in each direction.
 

Was sat 350kW chargers the other day, with screaming child in car. An EQS, ioniq5, myself were all charging around 200kW. There was an MG5 getting under 50 and the owner said it was the limit. The less than 2 year old id4 was getting 49kW when I looked & under 50% full. The kids were asking the driver when could they go. We changed/fed the baby used the facilities and were on our way with the motion brink back silence.

 

I’m guessing the id4 has the same charger as the enyaq. Frankly I’ve not seen any 400v car (Tesla on super chargers excluded) get anywhere near the claimed speeds, but do realise some people must be.

 

You say owners are reporting higher and that’s genuinely great, but it isn’t my experience. When I talk to people at rapid chargers, polestar, Volvo, MG, VW, Audi and one enyaq that I can think of they’re amazed how fast the Kia, Hyundai and Porsche charge and are gone. Tesla on ionity seem to take ages too mind, so maybe it’s not just the car.

 

For me around 20-30 minutes should be the maximum time to add 200 miles. It’s enough time to use the facilities, grab a drink and have a stretch without extending the journey time excessively. I got stuck on a 50kW gridserve giving out less than 30 and after 45 minutes had had enough and had enough to reach some 350s.
 

VW group recognise this on their premium cars as the Q8 and other new Audi vehicles are moving to 800V. Time is definitely a precious commodity.

 

Also faster chargers and faster charging should mean less queues.

 

Fair enough, comparing 400V architecture cars with 800V. I agree that 800V is the way forward to improve charge times, due to the 500A current limit with CCS2 standard. 200kW is the max any 400V car can pull on a standard CCS2 plug. I'm not sure what Tesla do with their Superchargers but that is not standard CCS2. You state you've never seen a VW or Skoda charging at high speed and I believe you, so I hope you'll believe me when I say I have gotten 140kW (Washington services 350kW chargers) and regularly get 100+kW since the V3.2 software update, on the rare occasions I do charge away from home. I have had one truly disappointing charge at Beverley MFG 150kW charger, where I initially got 80kW but then someone else plugged in to the other CCS port and charge speed dropped to 40kW and soon was down to 30kW - I like to think that was a charger issue rather than car issue but I cannot prove it. Its all anecdotal so I'd say MEB are no worse or better than other 400V cars, certainly not as bad as you made out. MEB cars do seem to be sensitive to being at a low SoC to get the fastest charge speeds, anything above 15% when plugging in will start charging at a lower rate of charge and it gets worse after that.

@Graham ButcherThe theory and the practice of EV,s are different.

Not charging to 100% is all good and well, many EV,s in the UK are for work, they are charged to 100% because you need to get the miles in, work, charge maybe, work, get home, maybe charge while on work time for the next working day.

Many have an EV, hate the EV and are not giving a damn about it, it is a work tool.  Like there power tools, charge to 100% and use and recharge.

Our resident Enyaq driver and member has a Short on Youtube yesterday on not leaving charged at 100%.

 

I charged to 100% almost all the time for the past 3 years as i was doing over 120 miles most trips away and wanted to sometimes get 100 miles before charging. Small battery.  I will be charging to 100% every time nearly for the next 3 years and maybe just leave if parked for a while at 95%.

Very small battery.

 

 

Real small and efficient EV cars are needed and that is all many need and yet Skoda stopped bringing in to the UK their Citigo iV.

These size of cars are what should be still getting the tax breaks for many companies and businesses who's employees are in towns and cities and not reping up and down the motorways IMO.

 

 

....................

The thing is that the 32 local authorities in Scotland can do their own thing and set the tariffs and the terms / time limits / penalties and some have set none.

Like parts of Ayrshire which is North, South, East & West.  4 different local authorities.

 

60 million of funding 2010 - 2022, and another 60 million being pledged in the next few years in Scotland and it is pretty much a pith take and carry on for tourists, locals, and business,s the lottery of where you are in Scotland.

 

@cheezemonkhai

Plenty know there is a £1 a minute charge.

At the likes of Stirling Castle View park and ride i sometimes say to a driver.

They could not care less, they need the Big Car they run charged, the Porsche Taycan or whatever and they are not going to the Commercial Chargers near or they are occupied so park, charge, pay the cost or their company or employer does and tough because they gave them a EV.

There are not just self employed with a nice company car doing it, there are those who are employees but they have places to be and are not going to charger hop.

 

...................

Lots of my charging is not on my Charge Place Scotland account as the Card does not work on some like when a BP Pulse Charger / Edinburgh so i pay with a Debit Card, not a Credit where £15 or more a time is taken pre payment for a £7 charge.  Or the App does not work, no phone reception, but then the charger might not work, or starts and cuts out and you are paying £1 or £1.50 several times and have to dispute that.

Also where 30 mins Max as was or 40 Mins Max Stirling and no return for 90 minutes if the charger is not in demand i use more than 1 card & restart charging.

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot

14 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Also what would be a better example would be to quote cars where there is an EV version and also an ICE version of the same model rather than comparing a Telsa with an Audi and a Polestar with a VW.

Sorry I missed this.

 

The reason I haven't done it that way is because the compromises one has to make for a shared platform. The reason Model Y is lighter than similar sized EV from legacy auto is that there is no unnecessary parts sharing with ICE vehicles. As I said, need properly designed EV's, completely from blank sheet without legacy baggage.

 

Another example, BMW i3 starts at 1.2 T. About similar to Polo/Fiesta, which start from just under 1.2 T.

 

 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Tesla on ionity seem to take ages too mind, so maybe it’s not just the car.

Ionity are 800v-first chargers. Tesla and VAG MEB cars are 400v cars. At 500 amp max, absolute maximum 400v can pull from Ionity is 200kW, but that requires pack at 400v, which isn't the case when at low SoC. Tesla NMC Pack voltage tend to be just over 300v when at low SoC. So maximum charge rate is only 160 kW.

 

Tesla v3 superchargers are said to be able to deliver 800 amps to achieve headline figure of 250 kW at low SoC.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/08/supercharger-v3-shocking-power-smart-strategy-by-tesla-charts/

 

This is my MY LR cell voltages:  Cells are arranged in 96s.

 

I think charge points really need to advertise by voltage and current. Because (just like remaining miles guess-o-meter) max charging power is dependent on cars batteries. 

 

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

So you are very happy to make wild claims (in earlier post) without referencing evidences to back it up. Noted. 

 

It appears you cannot hear anything said against your claims no matter however much evidence against them is presented. Read a bit more outside mainstream media and you might learn something  

 

Happy to be name called and be put into any camp, I don't care. 

I just want to get the facts straight. As always, I'm happy to be change my view as long as I'm presented with credible sources. 

The thing is that I have stored among my many hard drives of many TBs tons of referencing evidences to I think back up all of my claims apart from the EV's not being allowed into these upmarket apartments that are springing up all along the Thames now of which some colleagues have told me about and I see no reason why they should be telling me lies. One said that his neighbour was complaining because the landlord had made him park his PHEV Range Rover outside and away from the building because of the insurance stipulations on the building. I just don't have the time to go trawling through the drives looking for them at the present moment.

 

Now if your reference to the main stream media means TV and newspapers, well I gave up on those years ago since they became effectively muted by those that seek to control the narrative and treat us all like mushrooms and thus use the MSN to manipulate us in whatever fashion suits their purpose. I can't remember the last time I read a newspaper or watched the news, just to be fed a bunch of lies.😉

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

4 hours ago, toot said:

Are there many deaths in electric car fires in the UK?  Accidents or cars just combusting.    One positive must be that there are not people using a pipe from the tail pipe into the vehicle to commit sewageside (the dirty way out).     OT, there was a place I worked where sadly a member of staff took the vacuum hose away and killed themself in their vehicle.  It was weeks before we got a new vacuum cleaner delivered. 

I haven't heard of that sort of thing going on lately, although if my memory serves me right, it was a regular event in the Thatcher years. Maybe it is still happening, but the media don't report it anymore?

@Graham ButcherWhat are they not reporting, UK car crashes and accidents and none accidents and burning to death in an EV,

or people topping themselves in a vehicle?

 

On the car parking!

There are mainstream media / publishers running anti-EV campaigns so there are going to be plenty articles to find where landlords / factors / local authorities are banning BEV,s or Hybrids or dual fuel vehicles, or camper vans with Gas Bottles from their premises.

 

Or ferries or tunnel operators banning / restricting them travelling on or through.

 

It is a brave new world dawning. 

  Space trips to the moon and beyond happening and peoples daily drives are 'death traps' and fire hazards that need parked in open spaces away from anyone and everything else. 

Edited 15 August, 20232 yr by toot