@Graham ButcherThe point is 20 or more pence a litre is not unusual.  I now that a litre is about double the higher prices of a kWh of electricity at public chargers.

 

So Public chargers retailing Electricity is costing people from around 25 pence to £1.00 a kWh. 

20% VAT charged.

 

   Same electricity just served to you in different ways / speeds and different locations by different companies making very different investments and getting different profits.

 

There is no UK Political party that is going to change that anytime soon.

 

PS.

We used to run our cars on Account at a Fuel Suppliers yard.  Not Red Diesel.

As to Red diesel now different. 1st April 2022.   Rebated not available for running some tractors, construction, plant hire, etc.  They are on White Diesel.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

10 minutes ago, toot said:

The point is 20 or more pence a litre is not unusual.  I now that a litre is about double the higher prices of a kWh of electricity at public chargers.

 

So Public chargers retailing Electricity is costing people from around 25 pence to £1.00. 

 

   Same electricity just served to you in different ways / speeds and different locations by different companies making very different investments and getting different profits.

 

There is no UK Political party that is going to change that anytime soon.

Well if no UK or any other Political Party is not going to change things soon, then I think they will all have to endure the public displeasure. If they are serious about wanting to clean up the air, then they really do need to take the bull by the horns and regulate properly, so the public know roughly what to expect their bills to be. Seems more and more like the tail is wagging the dog here and we the end customer is being treated as a cash cow. Another war breakout somewhere else and you will not be able to afford to recharge your car as the suppliers will just see it as yet another opportunity to cash in. 

 

Incidently the 20p a litre was not in the retail based example I used. 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

No i used 20 pence a litre because that is common within 50 miles of me for the cost North or South.

It can be a lot more than that.  That is not just a few pence difference in any language.

 

Well people might have displeasure but they are running EV,s ordering and buying them and sorting out what they pay if they are bothered.

 

You will be surprised or maybe not how many could not care less what Public Charging costs them for the car under the business or what ever, 

they like driving an EV. 

 

75 pence a kWh, 10 kWh £7.50

4.5 miles to a kWh is 45 miles.           So all about location location location and the vehicle & then what you pay for the vehicle, purchase or lease.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

10 minutes ago, toot said:

Well people might have displeasure but they are running EV,s ordering and buying them and sorting out what they pay if they are bothered.

 

You will be surprised or maybe not how many could not care less what Public Charging costs them for the car under the business or what ever, 

they like driving an EV. 

Business users I can understand as it is tax-deductible but the public, many of whom are already hard pushed to run even a basic old car seeing as they have seen wages and indeed pensions being eroded year-on-year, cannot just keep dipping their hand into a empty pocket and plucking money off an invisible money tree. Yes there is a vast amount of wealth in this country, but it is not being distributed well enough, and no I'm even thinking about communism before anyone even mentions it. The truth is the gulf between the poorest in society and the richest has never been wider then it is right now and there is a cost of living crisis so the richest are still finding a way to further enrich themselves even further.   But let's not drag politics into this.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

People have big or small houses, boats, motorhomes, caravans, classic cars, motorbikes, holidays, weekends away.

In other words disposable cash money. 

 

Senior citizens get Winter Fuel payments regardless of savings and my mum got £1,230 from Government hand outs last year and just because of age regardless of savings.

 

So lets not drag politics into it and have and have nots.   Plenty normal working people without home chargers drive EV,s. 

 

I laugh at those mumping about the cost of chargers that pay Starbuck prices.

Or that are always eating drinking while charging in some place and never just have a packed lunch or flask, 

but then they have the Youtube income. 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

12 minutes ago, toot said:

No i used 20 pence a litre because that is common within 50 miles of me for the cost North or South.

It can be a lot more than that.  That is not just a few pence difference in any language.

 

Well people might have displeasure but they are running EV,s ordering and buying them and sorting out what they pay if they are bothered.

 

You will be surprised or maybe not how many could not care less what Public Charging costs them for the car under the business or what ever, 

they like driving an EV. 

 

75 pence a kWh, 10 kWh £7.50

4.5 miles to a kWh is 45 miles.           So all about location location location and the vehicle & then what you pay for the vehicle, purchase or lease.

Oh ok I see what you mean now, but is still only a few % differences. You up in Scotland apparently have more than enough electricity generation capacity, meanwhile here in the UK we don't and have had huge price increases while the energy companies have never had such huge profits.

@toot I agree there are people driving EVs without home charging, but there could be a lot more with the right encouragement. Your Mum is very lucky then to be in Scotland, all I got as a senior citizen was £200 winter fuel allowance, full stop.🤨

My Mum is in Britain, Scotland is in Britain, that was Westminsters helping people with the cost of fuel which you must have missed out on most of it then, 

did you just get £400, what about your Winter Fuel Payment? 

Between £150 & £300 by age.  (The £300 was doubled last winter.)

Paid to those not in the UK if in the right countries.

 

We North of Perth had higher electricity tariffs pre price capping and still on daily standing charges. 

There are still 5 pence Rural Fuel Duty Relief paid in postcode areas in the UK.  Actually that is a pith take. 

 

Yes Scotland can produce enough energy for Scotland and for exporting and gets charged more to export to England than from France or Norway or elsewhere.

 

Actually the one French owned Nuclear Power station left in Scotland exports electricity south and across the channel. 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

20 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

there are people driving EVs without home charging

Indeed, here in Yorkshire, some folk are ahead of the curve.

 

Is that a charger next to the petrol pump or are they just buying groceries without consideration for people fueling up?

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Stonekeeper

Unless they have fitted an engine as in Youtube spoofs they will be shopping.

But then plenty do that at filling stations without putting in fuel. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

47 minutes ago, toot said:

My Mum is in Britain, Scotland is in Britain, that was Westminsters helping people with the cost of fuel which you must have missed out on most of it then, 

did you just get £400, what about your Winter Fuel Payment? 

Between £150 & £300 by age.  (The £300 was doubled last winter.)

Paid to those not in the UK if in the right countries.

No, the energy cap price thingy was paid directly to the energy company, but my energy bill for just gas along went from £100 per month to £190 and now I just made them refund me £500 which is the maximum I can be refunded when I discovered that were sitting there with almost £1,000 in my gas account. I have now amended that monthly figure to £70 a month. So did they need that extra uplift in my monthly bill or was just a means of getting more money into their bank hmm.... Or indeed was the England help with energy bills paid at all?

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No, the energy cap price thingy was paid directly to the energy company, but my energy bill for just gas along went from £100 per month to £190 and now I just made them refund me £500 which is the maximum I can be refunded when I discovered that were sitting there with almost £1,000 in my gas account. I have now amended that monthly figure to £70 a month. So did they need that extra uplift in my monthly bill or was just a means of getting more money into their bank hmm.... Or indeed was the England help with energy bills paid at all?

 

 

All my  £67 a month government payments were paid to electricity Bills  i had to ask for a refund to pay to the gas bill

When a Tesla parks on a petrol pump to use the shop, the garage should charge them 50p a minute like Tesla do for every minute the car is connected without charging. (waived if they remove within 5 minutes)

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Stonekeeper

The £400 went to your account and paid £400 that you needed not to pay obviously.

You old people get Winter Fuel payments automatically. 

 

?

What are people that buy their fuel at supermarket filling stations charged if they stop at a Shell filling station pump and go into the shop? 

 

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

5 minutes ago, toot said:

The £400 went to your account and paid £400 that you needed not to pay obviously.

You old people get Winter Fuel payments automatically. 

 

?

What are people that buy their fuel at supermarket filling stations charged if they stop at a Shell filling station pump and go into the shop? 

 

 

ICE cars at the pump normally buy fuel before entering the shop, if they don't want fuel they park elsewhere on the forecourt?

Normally. 

I do wonder if you and Graham actually get out and about that much or if you live in parallel universes.  Maybe just places that are unique.

5 minutes ago, toot said:

Normally. 

I do wonder if you and Graham actually get out and about that much or if you live in parallel universes.  Maybe just places that are unique.

 

 

Maybe i do?

 

I buy fuel at least 9 times a month and have never witnessed anyone park at a pump and not put fuel in. (must be lucky)

 

I have waited for someone who has used the shop for groceries afterwards

 

The stations i use do tend to have space to park on the forecourt though.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, toot said:

Normally. 

I do wonder if you and Graham actually get out and about that much or if you live in parallel universes.  Maybe just places that are unique.

While I can't account for @Stonekeeper, I can say that I used to fill up the tank of a VW Passat and then moved onto Skoda Superb as my company car and would fill them to the brim each time, twice a week and some weeks 3 times as I had a very large area to cover and then spent many weekends going to various air shows and motor sport events across the country so yes I'm indeed well travelled and have also in my time many different cars and other vehicles including lorries and buses and coaches without any incidents, including all over Ireland including during the worst period of the IRA bitter campaign in Northern Ireland and indeed Scotland, so yes I get and have been out a lot more than you might have thought 😏. The only thing I know I have in common with Stonekeeper is that he has a Mondeo and I used to have a Mk2 Mondeo as a company car years ago.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

When a Tesla parks on a petrol pump to use the shop, the garage should charge them 50p a minute like Tesla do for every minute the car is connected without charging. (waived if they remove within 5 minutes)

Same should be done for any car (EV or ICE) parked at rapid chargers.

 

But what you speak of is only applied when stall utilisation is near 100%, and ICE cars don't get fined because it's not connected.

 

  

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The object of what I'm putting forward is to hopefully show to people that it could well be possible to have an EV car even without having access to home charging and if what you are saying, that it is still more competitive to run a EV car is correct even without home charging that you might see your dream come true of a more rapid uptake of EV cars. 

 

Why is this proving to be such a stumbling block for?

The cost per mile when public charging has been worked out, time and time again, is marginally cheaper than driving ICE car if not charged using most expensive charge points, "competitive to run" in your words. Do I need to quote relevant posts you've already replied to?

 

The only stumbling block is your reaction to every time home charging is mentioned. You wish this topic never to be mentioned because it doesn't fit with your views.

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

What I'm talking about is to remove all talk of home charging

 

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

No, the energy cap price thingy was paid directly to the energy company, but my energy bill for just gas along went from £100 per month to £190 and now I just made them refund me £500 which is the maximum I can be refunded when I discovered that were sitting there with almost £1,000 in my gas account. I have now amended that monthly figure to £70 a month.

I can give you a referral code to Octopus, They allow easily adjust monthly payment online and never get into too much extremes.

But remember, it's always better to build up a bit more credit during summer for winter months to use up. I usually aim for 0 balance in April/May.

3 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Same should be done for any car (EV or ICE) parked at rapid chargers.

 

But what you speak of is only applied when stall utilisation is near 100%, and ICE cars don't get fined because it's not connected. 

 

 

Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at 50% capacity or more. Idle fees double when the station is at 100% capacity.

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/charging/supercharger/idle-fee

1 minute ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at 50% capacity or more. Idle fees double when the station is at 100% capacity.

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/charging/supercharger/idle-fee

Thank you, I stand corrected. I knew there's 2 tiers, thought it was 80%, must always go to source to check.

 

There's ways around it. "When charging finishes", but if one set charge limit to 100%, it will take a lot longer to completion after 80%. So more time to get back to the car to move it without incurring idle fee.

What is the acronym for there is too much to read there and I will lose the will to live... that's it TLDR.

I view this thread as an on-going discussion of many different topics. I think I missed 10 pages while I was away last week, just ignored it and joined in when I was able. 

Brand new. 15 miles.   Under £20,000.