@lol-lol Agreed the investment is very welcomed.

42 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Oh I think I can match that and possibly go one better. 

 

Similar chassis, Fiat I think, an x Ray van, car, thingy, I had to drive sometimes.

 

Way over the 3500 kgs.

No road tax.

Crown exemption.

 

Broke down a lot as could not really haul itself and Plymouth is hilly.

 

Thats because FIAT means Fix It Again Tomorrow 

 

@Graham ButcherFIAT just another of the brands owned by Stallantis now.

 

Off how people roll out the guff of old about manufacturers.

It just happens that Stellantis needs to get on with vehicles that are EV ground up builds. 

Yet more cars with touch controls that are likely to be banned soon when governments work out that operating it is as bad as using a mobile phone.

Edited 26 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Thats because FIAT means Fix It Again Tomorrow 

An outdated trope IMO.

Same as the old tropes about Skoda being skips or having heated rear screens to keep your hands warm.

13 minutes ago, @Lee said:

An outdated trope IMO.

Same as the old tropes about Skoda being skips or having heated rear screens to keep your hands warm.

Yeah, I did think that at the time, so how about this one, Ferrari In Affordable Trim?

A truth about an electric car....

3000 miles around France. No issues with finding a charger, no issues with queuing, average charge cost 29p / kWh, average consumption 4.0 mi/kWh, average cost 7.51p  7.87/mile (includes charging at home before leaving and on return plus one free charge of about 25kW). We charged whenever the humans needed a stop. Generally this coincided with meal times and generally we charged more than needed so we could finish our meal.

 

Truth is, EVs are no more difficult to tour with than ICE vehicles. Our ID.4 was quiet, comfy and very easy to drive over long distances on the Autoroute with ACC and Lane Assist helping keep things in check. Highly recommended!

 

EDIT: I forgot to account for the one month subscription to Tesla membership charging of £11 in my cost per mile. New average above.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Luckypants

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yeah, I did think that at the time, so how about this one, Ferrari In Affordable Trim?

Only if it's a Fiat Coupe 20 valve turbo which actually beat a Ferrari 348.

I doubt a Fiat Dupla could be classed as a Fiat in affordable trim.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

A truth about an electric car....

3000 miles around France. No issues with finding a charger, no issues with queuing, average charge cost 29p / kWh, average consumption 4.0 mi/kWh, average cost 7.51p/mile (includes charging at home before leaving and on return plus one free charge of about 25kW). We charged whenever the humans needed a stop. Generally this coincided with meal times and generally we charged more than needed so we could finish our meal.

 

Truth is, EVs are no more difficult to tour with than ICE vehicles. Our ID.4 was quiet, comfy and very easy to drive over long distances on the Autoroute with ACC and Lane Assist helping keep things in check. Highly recommended!

 

I hate you  (not really 😘)

 

See, this is the type of post I really don't need to read.  A recent solar installation and I'm exporting loads to the grid (double what we use).  It's got me thinking that maybe it's time..... but a recent 900 mile round trip and my very comfortable GTI managed 50mpg at some points, which I was really happy about.

 

But then long term (30k miles) it's cost me 19.1ppm, so almost three times your ID.4.  I've already got an e-bike, a mobility scooter, so EV should only be a small step.  But I like my petrol car, and I want to not like EV's, but all three I've driven have been great, which is not helping 🙄

 

Gnarrr, harrumph, grumble, whinge...... I don't wanna take my head out of the sand 😳

 

G

 

2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

I hate you  (not really 😘)

 

See, this is the type of post I really don't need to read.  A recent solar installation and I'm exporting loads to the grid (double what we use).  It's got me thinking that maybe it's time..... but a recent 900 mile round trip and my very comfortable GTI managed 50mpg at some points, which I was really happy about.

 

But then long term (30k miles) it's cost me 19.1ppm, so almost three times your ID.4.  I've already got an e-bike, a mobility scooter, so EV should only be a small step.  But I like my petrol car, and I want to not like EV's, but all three I've driven have been great, which is not helping 🙄

 

Gnarrr, harrumph, grumble, whinge...... I don't wanna take my head out of the sand 😳

 

G

 

To really **** you off, my average cost over 33k miles now 5.9p / mile. I'll admit this figure has been helped by a lot of free Tesco / Aldi charging in the first year and some other free charges, which is something petrol or diesel never get. I had solar fitted at the beginning of July and now any excess can be dumped into the car for 'free', so July & August has seen my costs at less than 3p / mile. This is without an EV tariff for leccy as smart meter does not work, so I'm paying about 19p. Things will get more expensive over winter due to poorer efficiency and less solar, unless something changes on the smart meter front. Financially it stacks up for me, the fuel cost saving pays the increased monthly PCP cost over a similar diesel.

I thought the cost of a kwh of electricity was way beyond 19p in the UK now, I guess what doesnt help is that there is no State Regulated Tariff, a base price around which the energy suppliers can discount on one hand (off peak) while charging more on the other.

 

How much per kwh would someone pay taking out a contract today?

3 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

To really **** you off, my average cost over 33k miles now 5.9p / mile. I'll admit this figure has been helped by a lot of free Tesco / Aldi charging in the first year and some other free charges, which is something petrol or diesel never get. I had solar fitted at the beginning of July and now any excess can be dumped into the car for 'free', so July & August has seen my costs at less than 3p / mile. This is without an EV tariff for leccy as smart meter does not work, so I'm paying about 19p. Things will get more expensive over winter due to poorer efficiency and less solar, unless something changes on the smart meter front. Financially it stacks up for me, the fuel cost saving pays the increased monthly PCP cost over a similar diesel.

That's great, but I doubt that free charging is going to last for much longer, Morrisons have already started to charge I think as every time I go there, their 2 chargers are now always empty (could be broken I guess, maybe I'll take a closer look next time) but as more EV's take to the roads, there will be more lost revenue to the treasury and increased demand on the grid and more associated cost to those shops providing free charging. These costs will soon be passed down to the customer with some margin of profit added on top, and the more EVs coming onto the roads, the greater the pressure will be to remove free charging and find some way of charging the EV clan some VED or equivalent.

@Luckypants thanks for offering some positivity instead of the constant whining and bickering. 👍

@J.R.Today if i charged at home regular tariff it is 30 pence a kWh, from the 1st October 28 pence a kWh.

 

This month i have charged over 81 kWh for Free on public chargers & Tesco (7kW) and another 30 kWh at CPS chargers (50 kW) 

That 111 kWh getting 4 miles a kWh is good for 444 miles. 

 

In the next 2 weeks i will do about 800 miles.

200 miles will cost me 55 pence a kWh & another 200 will be @ 35 pence a kWh, and 400 will be Free charging on CPS chargers.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

A truth about an electric car....

3000 miles around France. No issues with finding a charger, no issues with queuing, average charge cost 29p / kWh, average consumption 4.0 mi/kWh, average cost 7.51p  7.87/mile (includes charging at home before leaving and on return plus one free charge of about 25kW). We charged whenever the humans needed a stop. Generally this coincided with meal times and generally we charged more than needed so we could finish our meal.

 

Truth is, EVs are no more difficult to tour with than ICE vehicles. Our ID.4 was quiet, comfy and very easy to drive over long distances on the Autoroute with ACC and Lane Assist helping keep things in check. Highly recommended!

 

EDIT: I forgot to account for the one month subscription to Tesla membership charging of £11 in my cost per mile. New average above.

To put this into UK context, take away the home charging element as not everyone can, what would be the actual cost of using public chargers (not free ones) and then how does that stack up against your French trip? The French seem to have far better infrastructure and lower cost per KW then we do in the UK.

3,000 miles getting 3.7 miles a kWh is 811 kWh of electricity.

 

@ a home tariff of 30 pence a kWh then that is £243.30. 

 

3,000 getting 45 mpg is 67 gallons. @ £7.50 a gallon £500.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

@Graham Butcher

Well what are you talking, about in the UK,

7 kW public charging from anything like 20 pence to 44 pence a kWh, or Rapid Charging from 30 to 50 pence or as much as 80 pence a kWh?

 

Location location location and are you paying a subscription, driving a Tesla and Supercharging, or a Porsche or maybe a Skoda with a discounted tariff and less than 30 pence a kWh.

 

Private individuals not claiming back VAT.

Then we have business users and cars that the BIK makes all the difference and what ever charging structure they use.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

10 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham Butcher

Well what are you talking, about in the UK,

7 kW public charging from anything like 20 pence to 44 pence a kWh, or Rapid Charging from 30 to 50 pence or as much as 80 pence a kWh?

 

Location location location and are you paying a subscription, driving a Tesla and Supercharging, or a Porsche or maybe a Skoda with a discounted tariff and less than 30 pence aW kk

I'm talking about for an average sized family car and not being able to charge at home and so having to rely on the public chargers in car parks, service stations etc as anyone who charges and quoting their costs are actually distorting the real cost of EV ownership for those who cannot charge at home, which is the majority of the public. That way, its possible to better gauge the cost of ownership in £m ignoring the time taken to charge. i.e., cost per mile for ICE v cost per mile in a EV if charging away from home. Not free ones as this will not be possible in every case.

 

In other words, we need to compare as near as possible apples with apples. Those able to charge will obviously benefit greatly from being able to do so, but sadly that is not living in the real world, people cannot get access to cheap fossil fuel at home can they? 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

59 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

I hate you  (not really 😘)

 

See, this is the type of post I really don't need to read.  A recent solar installation and I'm exporting loads to the grid (double what we use).  It's got me thinking that maybe it's time..... but a recent 900 mile round trip and my very comfortable GTI managed 50mpg at some points, which I was really happy about.

 

But then long term (30k miles) it's cost me 19.1ppm, so almost three times your ID.4.  I've already got an e-bike, a mobility scooter, so EV should only be a small step.  But I like my petrol car, and I want to not like EV's, but all three I've driven have been great, which is not helping 🙄

 

Gnarrr, harrumph, grumble, whinge...... I don't wanna take my head out of the sand 😳

 

G

 

Sorry to add to your predicament, I regularly charge off my solar:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/charging-off-excess-solar-using-dumb-charger-and-home-assistant.177813/#post-3441721

😜 

 

And it is close to 2p/mile for me using EV tariffs. Here's all the EV tariffs: 

 

Intelligent Octopus smart charging even helps lower my home usage cost by providing extra off-peak slots. My last bill, my average for ALL electricity I imported was just over 10p/kWh. 

49 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I thought the cost of a kwh of electricity was way beyond 19p in the UK now, I guess what doesnt help is that there is no State Regulated Tariff, a base price around which the energy suppliers can discount on one hand (off peak) while charging more on the other.

 

How much per kwh would someone pay taking out a contract today?

Not that far beyond. The price cap is (state regulated via OFGEM) is 30p / kWh. Many suppliers now have deals below that. I am on Octopus's Tracker tariff which tracks the wholesale price on a daily basis, this tariff is open to all. during times of lots of wind energy I've seen my price as low as 12p/kWh and highest I've seen (since July) is 21p / kWh. The 19p I quoted was for September. I normally give a weekly reading and Octopus average the cost over the week, so I pay a variable price, but in the context of my post I felt it was fair to give the September price I paid of 19p.

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

 

But then long term (30k miles) it's cost me 19.1ppm, so almost three times your ID.4. 

 

Gnarrr, harrumph, grumble, whinge...... I don't wanna take my head out of the sand 😳

 

G

 

 

He he - I can beat that - Iast year I did so few miles in my MX5 for various reasons that the cost per mile was over £3.  Still wouldn't change it though 🤣

50 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That's great, but I doubt that free charging is going to last for much longer, Morrisons have already started to charge I think as every time I go there, their 2 chargers are now always empty (could be broken I guess, maybe I'll take a closer look next time) but as more EV's take to the roads, there will be more lost revenue to the treasury and increased demand on the grid and more associated cost to those shops providing free charging. These costs will soon be passed down to the customer with some margin of profit added on top, and the more EVs coming onto the roads, the greater the pressure will be to remove free charging and find some way of charging the EV clan some VED or equivalent.

The free charging is gone. I stated I got a lot of free charging IN MY FIRST YEAR. My average cost last year was 6.03p / mile over 13259 miles, no free charging. That year I had a fixed rate of 21p/kWh for home charging.

33 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

we need to compare as near as possible apples with apples. Those able to charge will obviously benefit greatly from being able to do so, but sadly that is not living in the real world, people cannot get access to cheap fossil fuel at home can they? 

I get not everyone can charge at home. But why dismiss the possibility of cheaper motoring for those who can? Why insist compare apple to apple when orange is better in every way? 

@Graham ButcherI thought in my last post i set out for you exactly what it is about with a EV of any size.

There are the circumstances of the driver / owner and the vehicle.  The cost to charge range is there for you in the post.

 

Free charging is not gone, it might be for many but in Scotland there are still a few Councils with no Tariff to use their chargers.

It might not be for much longer but for 2 years these councils have been saying that.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/512925-skoda-enyaq-iv-60-reflections-after-1-year-of-ownership

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot