5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I get not everyone can charge at home. But why dismiss the possibility of cheaper motoring for those who can? Why insist compare apple to apple when orange is better in every way? 

You just don't get it do you? If you want to encourage people to make the switch from ICE to EV at the first opportunity, you need to first make the comparison something that is meaningful to those people who cannot do home charging, if they can, then that is an added bonus for them and these people are most certainly bright enough to make that connection for themselves.

 

Let me spell it out for you. Think of your self living on the 4th floor of a block of flats, or in an old town house which has no front garden, no drive and is in a block of about 10 or more terraced houses, and an insufficient power supply to be able to charge at home, but you are aware that chargers exist at filling stations, car parks etc, and you are used to having to driving to a filling station to refuel your existing ICE car, so you could continue to do so (ignore the time taken to charge), and you just want to work out what would be the realistic monetary impact of making the switchover to you personally.

 

Does that help to focus your mind?

 

To continually  push the advantages you have with your home charging is IMO just creating a block to those who can't, so why persist in quoting your home costs.

Is it Ground Hog day?

 

There is a big thread here, there are loads of other threads.

Asking the same question and expecting different answers is fair enough because there are different answers. 

 

It is a Post Code Lottery in the UK as far as Charging Infrastructure but Public Charging in September 2023 goes from £0.00 to £1.00.

 

Discount the free & 7 kW Fast charging, 

so you are going from about 30 pence to £1.00 a kWh for 50, 100, 100 + Rapid to Ultra Rapid charging.

 

...............

This has already appeared on here.  But here we go again.    (Nobody is charging £4 a kWh)

 

*** Where he sees or smells these SMELL FILLING STATIONS i have no idea, MFG or BP Pulse ones or any others.

Is he hanging about the HGV pumps? Not that they are smelly these days of for many a year now IME.***

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

40 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherI thought in my last post i set out for you exactly what it is about with a EV of any size.

There are the circumstances of the driver / owner and the vehicle.  The cost to charge range is there for you in the post.

 

Free charging is not gone, it might be for many but in Scotland there are still a few Councils with no Tariff to use their chargers.

It might not be for much longer but for 2 years these councils have been saying that.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/512925-skoda-enyaq-iv-60-reflections-after-1-year-of-ownership

 

Yes, the info you gave was OK, but it also highlights the extremely wide charge bands which can be off-putting, something that does not happen to that extent with ICE fuel.

 

The video was very good, but it also showed he did 3 stops and charged at all of them, whereas in an ICE it would have been possible to complete the trip without refuelling and still have shorter comfort breaks. It also IMO showed that you need to pay attention to things like battery temps and also need to have a load of different apps on your phone and charge cards etc to suit different chargers (providers). With an ICE, you only need a debit or credit card, regardless of the supplier of your fuel.

 

Hopefully that clarifies it a bit?

Get on your bike!   You talk some right sh!te.

That is how it is so like it or lump it.  You have lumped it. 

 

The only thing about cold weather that matters to me is some chargers that are hopeless when the ambient temp is well below freezing, 

i never give a 2nd thought to the battery temp when driving or arriving at a charger.

I sit in the car and have the heater on when charging.

 

The figures are in my head for efficiency same as when driving an ICE. I am not filming for Youtube just taking pics occasionally for my own records and to post on here.

 

Tomorrow i will have the one card i could use the One that came from Mobility.

 

But i will not. I will use a Credit Card to tap the chargers i want to start and pay then and there.

I will use the CPS card to put the charge on my account, or charge free, or put on my account but if there is some error not pay. 

 

PS

I almost forgot i might charge at a BP Pulse charger to use my £9 a month credit i am getting for 5 months.

Today at this time in Dundee at the Tesla Supercharger as a Non-Tesla Driver i would be paying 50 pence a kWh.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

26 minutes ago, toot said:

Is it Ground Hog day?

 

There is a big thread here, there are loads of other threads.

Asking the same question and expecting different answers is fair enough because there are different answers. 

 

It is a Post Code Lottery in the UK as far as Charging Infrastructure but Public Charging in September 2023 goes from £0.00 to £1.00.

 

Discount the free & 7 kW Fast charging, 

so you are going from about 30 pence to £1.00 a kWh for 50, 100, 100 + Rapid to Ultra Rapid charging.

 

...............

This has already appeared on here.  But here we go again.    (Nobody is charging £4 a kWh)

 

 

 

Thanks for this link, I think that Dave explains it quite well, it is a lottery and these charge point providers are really milking it. Granted they have to provide the land and the chargers, but they are buying so much electricity that they will be paying far less than we pay at home, that is the way that it works, the more you buy, the cheaper it gets. Just imagine for a moment if a litre of unleaded was to vary by such a wide swing between the different brands. It just never happens, there may be a difference of a p or so between them and they also have huge great big signs clearly displaying the prices that you can see before pulling into the pumps.

 

It is clear that this needs to be regulated in order to help people make the switch before being compelled to do so, and what better way of doing so than to show them that they can A, save money by doing it and B, in a lot of cases it does need to take much time to charge, if they could locate some high speed chargers where people tend to go, such as shopping centres, restaurants, hospitals etc, so that they can go about their normal day-to-day activities even if they can't charge at home and not be ripped off by excessive prices or pre-charge payments and without needing loads of apps/cards etc.

 

That is certainly the most logical way to get people out of their ICE cars.

 

The current situation is just bonkers, and it suggests that it has big money making schemes lobbying for the transition to EV rather than cleaning the air.

Get a TESLA until there are cheaper choices to charge. 

But there are cheaper choices. 

 

Business users are swapping, because it is different for them, there are the savings in Tax, the Grants for Goods Vehicles, & that is what matters most because the majority of mile munchers and run about town vehicles in the UK are BUSINESS Users.  Not private vehicles. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

To continually  push the advantages you have with your home charging is IMO just creating a block to those who can't, so why persist in quoting your home costs.

Is the block in your minds because you can't charge at home?

 

I get there is a disparity and it needs to be looked at, but to ignore and discourage discussing the benefit of home charging is certainly not "the truth about electric cars". Those who can benefit should take full advantage as much as possible.

 

Me think this is another example of "vans are not cars" head-in-sand situation....... 🤣

It does not matter if new ICE cars and vans were not to be first registered from 2030 or 2035 the UK Government and politicians know the Social Divide will exist and not just because more than half EV drivers in the UK will not be able to charge their EV car or Van at their home or workplace.

 

EV,s are always going to be problematic for many drivers for their use or affordability and EV charging is going to be expensive any which way things go.

 

That is my 'Truth of EV,s'  So if people do not want one up to maybe 2040 and can get away with sticking with an ICE vehicle it seems that is what they will just have to do. 

42 minutes ago, toot said:

Get a TESLA until there are cheaper choices to charge. 

But there are cheaper choices. 

There are now 26 Tesla charging sites open in the UK to non-Tesla cars and the cost is 45-53p or 30-35p with a subscription. I know geographically they are sparse north of the M25, but its a start and new V4 supercharger sites will be open to all (one in Stoke opened at the weekend. Tottenham and Reading Services already opened) In France, many more SC sites are open to all and its having an effect from what I observed, supercharger sites have 50/50 spilt between Teslas and other makes, This puts pressure on other suppliers price wise, so even on the Autoroute chargers were around 50p for 300kW chargers. I hope Tesla open more sites in the UK, especially those at MSAs, to break the price fixing cartel operated by the companies belonging to Charge UK trade association.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Luckypants

I would be 50 pence in Dundee till 16.00 & 61 pence 16.00 - 20.00

 

54 pence in Aviemore or 61 pence same times.

 

Exactly what Lucky said, at Reading services, there's a row of Gridserve at 69p/kWh and a row of Tesla open-to-all superchargers at ~35p/kWh with subscription or ~50p/kWh without. Need more sites like this to drive down prices.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/first-tesla-v4-superchargers-in-uk.179536/post-3503657

 

Why would anyone (with CCS car) charge on the expensive chargers?

 

 

Video about those chargers:

https://youtu.be/eBUMxsSgx_k

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by wyx087

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Is the block in your minds because you can't charge at home?

 

I get there is a disparity and it needs to be looked at, but to ignore and discourage discussing the benefit of home charging is certainly not "the truth about electric cars". Those who can benefit should take full advantage as much as possible.

 

Me think this is another example of "vans are not cars" head-in-sand situation....... 🤣

Surely the only head in the sand bit here is you, do you really think that people are that stupid that they could not see that home charging is going to be the best option for them if they can possibly do it.

 

What I'm talking about is to remove all talk of home charging, yes I do understand if you can do it, its excellent value, but it is no incentive for those who can't, so why the hell can it not be simple for those people to work out if an EV now could be a viable option for them to go with, rather than waiting till they have no option. If the aim is about cleaning the air even further, then helping more people to switch has to be a good thing do you not agree?

 

If yes, then it needs to be shown to those people that switching over does not make very much difference to their daily lives by locating plenty of chargers at the locations that they visit on a regular basis. They can then charge while doing the normal things like shopping. All cars need to have the capability of rapid charging (DC) so while doing a weekly shop, their cars can be fully charged in about 1 hour.

 

The cost of the charge needs to be less expensive (ideally) than the comparable petrol/diesel cost per mile, or certainly no dearer.

 

Chargers still need to be located alongside the road network, just as filling stations are.

 

Oil companies like Esso, BP, Shell, Texaco, Jet are with a couple of pence of each other per litre (supermarkets slightly cheaper) now compare that with the EV charging companies

 

Pod Point 28p and 44pKW depending on speed

InstaVolt 75pKw

Osprey 75p & £1 Kw depending on speed

Shell Recharge 85p (slow) and 65p (rapid) odd that the rapid is cheaper.

BP Pulse 57p / 65p / 69p Kw depending on speed

Ionty 69p Kw

Gridserve 39p/48p/50p/66p Kw depending on speed and/or location

ChargePlace Scotland 0p (free) well done Scotland.

Source London (london based only) 69p/59p/55p Kw plus £4 monthly membership.

 

Add in to the above that some offer cheaper prices to members for a monthly/annual fee and need a card or a phone app and the situation is even more confusing and becomes overly complicated.

 

Hopefully now you can see from the above that if you cannot for whatever reason, charge at home it seems that you are exposed to a complete lottery on the actual cost that you are going to have to pay for a charge, and you have to factor in charging times, plus certain brands/suppliers of charger are not available across the country or in the ideal locations.

 

It seems a no-brainer given that charging takes time, to locate lots of chargers at locations where people all go to on a regular basis, i.e, supermarkets, thus no time is lost while charging is the nearest thing you are going to get to refuelling an ICE powered vehicle.

 

Supermarkets still get their customers in shopping, the energy companies are still getting their income from the chargers, governments are getting their cleaner air and getting closer to Net Zero and changing climate change. Users don't see any disadvantage or change to their lifestyle, may even see a slight saving in running cost even without home charging. The only actual losers will be high mileage long distance drivers who will need to stop more often to recharge and that would require their employer taking this added on cost on the chin.

 

Surely that makes total sense??

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

39 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Exactly what Lucky said, at Reading services, there's a row of Gridserve at 69p/kWh and a row of Tesla open-to-all superchargers at ~35p/kWh with subscription or ~50p/kWh without. Need more sites like this to drive down prices.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/first-tesla-v4-superchargers-in-uk.179536/post-3503657

 

Why would anyone (with CCS car) charge on the expensive chargers?

 

 

Video about those chargers:

https://youtu.be/eBUMxsSgx_k

 

That is what I'm talking about, if there was proper regulation that both would be price comparable and everyone take advantage of it.

@Graham ButcherPodPoint might be 28 pence for 7 kW someplaces, Tesco have Podpoint at 44 pence 7 kW chargers, 49 pence 22 kW & 62 pence on 50 kW and that can change at locations.

 

Charge Place Scotland is not FREE, there are some of the 32 council areas still free.

Rapid Charging , 50 kW can be from 35 pence to 70 pence.

Wallyford , East Lothian council is 88 pence a kWh peak time 4 pm - 8pm. 50-150 kW charger.

Edinburgh City Council is 55 pence a kWh 50 kW chargers.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherPodPoint might be 28 pence for 7 kW someplaces, Tesco have Podpoint at 44 pence 7 kW chargers, 49 pence 22 kW & 62 pence on 50 kW and that can change at locations.

 

Charge Place Scotland is not FREE, there are some of the 32 council areas still free.

Rapid Charging , 50 kW can be from 35 pence to 70 pence.

Wallyford , East Lothian council is 88 pence a kWh peak time 4 pm - 8pm. 50-150 kW charger.

Edinburgh City Council is 55 pence a kWh 50 kW chargers.

This is where the info came from, it claims that Charge Place Scotland is free at most locations.

The 15 Best Electric Car Charging Companies: A Round Up of UK Public Charging Networks | Lease Fetcher

 

Either way, by using your figures there are massive price swings.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

7 hours ago, Luckypants said:

A truth about an electric car....

3000 miles around France. No issues with finding a charger, no issues with queuing, average charge cost 29p / kWh, average consumption 4.0 mi/kWh, average cost 7.51p  7.87/mile (includes charging at home before leaving and on return plus one free charge of about 25kW). We charged whenever the humans needed a stop. Generally this coincided with meal times and generally we charged more than needed so we could finish our meal.

 

@Luckypants

 

Hi Luckypants.

 

That is very interesting to read, I drove 500 miles/800kms on Monday mainly the first 2 hours on Route Nationales and the rest on the Autoroutes, I did notice a lot more charging points at the Autoroute services and lots more vehicles using them but still plenty of free capacity, a lot seems to have changed (for the better) even since I last did the journey in May.

 

Most of us will avoid buying fuel at the Aire de Services as they are usually 10-15% more expensive than off the autoroute, is that the same for the electric recharges? That said I never see charge stations outside of the Autoroutes but even the smallest village has charge bornes which are either very expensive or unaccessible unless you have the right charge card because I have never ever seen anyone charging at one, the one in my village has not charged a single vehicle in 5 years!

 

If we were to take my journey, one that I frequently have to do could you give me an idea if how often and how long I would have to stop for recharges and what they would cost per kwh based on your recent experiences?

 

Mondays journey took me 12 hours and I think 10.5 of those were driving, I reckon less was actual driving as I'm sure the shatnav says it can be done in 8.5 hours.

 

In practice even if I leave with a full tank I have to stop several times for calls of nature, a coffee and a snack and often to take a nap, this time I had to stop after the first 2 hours, very tiring on the RN's before the autoroute, then again at 4 and 6 hours, at about 10 hours it was a forced stop as I was down to my last litre.

 

What I am trying to say is that I would be taking frequent stops anyway but how many of those would have to be recharge stops, how long would they have to be and how much would they cost?

 

A journey like Monday with the vehicle alone would be at 130kmh on the Autoroutes, with the vehicle and a loaded trailer at say 110km/h but consuming more carburant or electric.

 

The current 12 hours stints I could not envisage extending although if I were to have fewer longer stops sleeping at the charge stations it might be less tiring than at present.

 

My fuel costs currently are approx €85 in diesel, more if I have or choose to refuel on the autoroute.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by J.R.

@Graham Butcher  Do not believe everything you read is accurate or up to date, or that people know their arse from their elbow.

You linked something from November 2022 and it was not even accurate then and yet the Transport Minister for Scotland prattled the same guff.

They do not know majorities or percentages or simple maths, which is why they keep getting caught out with their expenses.

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is what I'm talking about, if there was proper regulation that both would be price comparable and everyone take advantage of it.

So you've never seen 2 petrol stations are different prices along the same stretch of a road?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

What I'm talking about is to remove all talk of home charging, yes I do understand if you can do it, its excellent value, but it is no incentive for those who can't, so why the hell can it not be simple for those people to work out if an EV now could be a viable option for them to go with, rather than waiting till they have no option. If the aim is about cleaning the air even further, then helping more people to switch has to be a good thing do you not agree?

 

If yes, then it needs to be shown to those people that switching over does not make very much difference to their daily lives by locating plenty of chargers at the locations that they visit on a regular basis.

The truth about electric car is that different people use their car differently, benefit of EV is that doesn't have to conform to petrol station refuel speed and payment model.  Charging at home is super convenient and completely removes the need to even think about petrol stations. I bet if people can have a bottomless jerry tank at home, no one would refuse. So insisting EV must be compared in the same way as refuelling at petrol station is missing the point.

 

You explained why we should discuss public charging pricing and availability, I don't disagree. You haven't really explained why we should remove all talk of home charging other than "no incentive for those who can't".

 

Well, if certain bit of information doesn't apply to you, you don't have to respond to it.

 

The highest priced road side fuelling stop is about 15 miles from where i live.

It is Bunkered fuel for HGV,s and they do not want cars in there but if you are stupid enough to go in and take fuel and not look at the price you will get a big shock.

 

EDIT.

Well actually my usual place is showing as £2 a litre.  I think that is false. As the Forecourt with 2 InstaVolt chargers is closed and getting refurbished.

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

7 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

So you've never seen 2 petrol stations are different prices along the same stretch of a road?

 

 

The truth about electric car is that different people use their car differently, benefit of EV is that doesn't have to conform to petrol station refuel speed and payment model.  Charging at home is super convenient and completely removes the need to even think about petrol stations. I bet if people can have a bottomless jerry tank at home, no one would refuse. So insisting EV must be compared in the same way as refuelling at petrol station is missing the point.

 

You explained why we should discuss public charging pricing and availability, I don't disagree. You haven't really explained why we should remove all talk of home charging other than "no incentive for those who can't".

 

Well, if certain bit of information doesn't apply to you, you don't have to respond to it.

 

Yes I have seen 2 petrol stations like you said and if you bother to read what I said, I had already covered that and said that the prices do not change a great deal between stations/brands and yet EV charging is does.

 

Present the public with a defacto straight forward comparison with prices that pretty consistent, (without any mention of home charging) and then if there is a genuine advantage to the average person to switch, that they would do so and then everyone gets the benefit of less polluted air to breathe is that what you are looking for? A carrot is always far better than a stick. If it is impossible to make a EV that that can be refuelled in just minutes like an ICE can, then make the EV fit into everyone's lifestyle in a more convenient fashion, by being able to combine the things that almost everyone has to do with charging, so killing two birds with a single stone makes perfect sense. 

 

So remove the bottomless jerry tank at home and the home charging out of the equation all together, it is not needed in the above scenario. It goes without being said, that if anyone has either of those two things, that they will take full advantage of it.

 

The object of what I'm putting forward is to hopefully show to people that it could well be possible to have an EV car even without having access to home charging and if what you are saying, that it is still more competitive to run a EV car is correct even without home charging that you might see your dream come true of a more rapid uptake of EV cars. 

 

Why is this proving to be such a stumbling block for?

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

@Luckypants

 

Hi Luckypants.

 

That is very interesting to read, I drove 500 miles/800kms on Monday mainly the first 2 hours on Route Nationales and the rest on the Autoroutes, I did notice a lot more charging points at the Autoroute services and lots more vehicles using them but still plenty of free capacity, a lot seems to have changed (for the better) even since I last did the journey in May.

 

Most of us will avoid buying fuel at the Aire de Services as they are usually 10-15% more expensive than off the autoroute, is that the same for the electric recharges? That said I never see charge stations outside of the Autoroutes but even the smallest village has charge bornes which are either very expensive or unaccessible unless you have the right charge card because I have never ever seen anyone charging at one, the one in my village has not charged a single vehicle in 5 years!

 

If we were to take my journey, one that I frequently have to do could you give me an idea if how often and how long I would have to stop for recharges and what they would cost per kwh based on your recent experiences?

 

Mondays journey took me 12 hours and I think 10.5 of those were driving, I reckon less was actual driving as I'm sure the shatnav says it can be done in 8.5 hours.

 

In practice even if I leave with a full tank I have to stop several times for calls of nature, a coffee and a snack and often to take a nap, this time I had to stop after the first 2 hours, very tiring on the RN's before the autoroute, then again at 4 and 6 hours, at about 10 hours it was a forced stop as I was down to my last litre.

 

What I am trying to say is that I would be taking frequent stops anyway but how many of those would have to be recharge stops, how long would they have to be and how much would they cost?

 

A journey like Monday with the vehicle alone would be at 130kmh on the Autoroutes, with the vehicle and a loaded trailer at say 110km/h but consuming more carburant or electric.

 

The current 12 hours stints I could not envisage extending although if I were to have fewer longer stops sleeping at the charge stations it might be less tiring than at present.

 

My fuel costs currently are approx €85 in diesel, more if I have or choose to refuel on the autoroute.

OK let me use my drive from Bezannes near Reims to Beaulieu-sur-Mer as an example as I have the costs for that. I left Bezannes with 100% battery at 6:05 am (easy for you if you can charge at home) as my hotel had a charger and drove to the Tesla Superchargers at Chalon-sur-Soane, we charged for about 30 minutes while we went to the toilet and ate breakfast (Pain au chocolat from the nearby Super-U). This was 62kWh and cost €17.98. We then drove to Le Pontet superchargers near Avignon and charged again, this time 51kWh that cost €15.30. We went to the toilet and got a coffee at the nearby mall but had to hurry a bit as the car was done charging. We then drove to Beaulieu-sur-Mer arriving at 18:30 due to bad traffic in Nice costing an hour. We drove at 105kph as the range predictor app I used (A Better Route Planner) suggested an extra 40 minute charge stop would be needed to sustain the higher consumption at 130kph and wiped out any time saving. So that is a 965km journey we made on 5th September. Two stops for breaks / toilet and charging. We topped up the charge in the car again at our hotel which cost a flat €7 on top of the car parking. Total cost for the trip  €40.28 (+ a portion of the €12 Tesla membership subscription)

 

On another leg of our tour we charged at Ionity on the Autoroute which was €0.52/kWh.

I hope that is helpful.

@Graham ButcherVery true as to just a few pence difference on liquid fuel for motorists,

other than when not true, like maybe the difference of many pence between a Dundee Supermarket Filling station and an Aberdeen & ones in between or ones in Elgin etc etc, Super Market or non supermarket.

The Commercials fuel at filling stations or Fuel Suppliers is very different. Delivered to Haulage Yards, to farms and forests etc.    Same fuel from Distributor to user. 

 

http://carnegiefuels.co.uk

 

http://johnston-oils.co.uk

 

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by toot

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

I thought the cost of a kwh of electricity was way beyond 19p in the UK now, I guess what doesnt help is that there is no State Regulated Tariff, a base price around which the energy suppliers can discount on one hand (off peak) while charging more on the other.

How much per kwh would someone pay taking out a contract today?

 

In 15k miles I have only done one meaningful charge of public charging at that was using the free £10 I got from Octopus Energy when I joined Electroverse, which is the Octopus Energy Public charger account they run along side my Octopus Energy home account. All the rest has been charging at home on my pod points at overnight rates of 7.5 p per kwh and the Zoe does 4 miles per kWh on average, more in the summer and less in the winter.  I have several free charges at my Heathrow office, and a client office. So my energy cost rate is under 2 pence per mile.

 

Servicing is about £100 each year so that is adding about 1.3 pence a mile and no tyres needed just yet but I think I will need a pair of from tyres before 20k miles so in the next 5 months or so that will be adding about 1 p per mile. No road tax of course.  Screen wash is just about minimal cost so I think all in circa 5p per mile cost.  PCP I am paying is £280 a month so that is the big cost (45p per miles but I get a car allowance to cover the Zoe and my Arkana) and the other elements are MINIMAL by comparison.

Best played at 1000W, RMS.

I  

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, toot said:

The highest priced road side fuelling stop is about 15 miles from where i live.

It is Bunkered fuel for HGV,s and they do not want cars in there but if you are stupid enough to go in and take fuel and not look at the price you will get a big shock.

 

EDIT.

Well actually my usual place is showing as £2 a litre.  I think that is false. As the Forecourt with 2 InstaVolt chargers is closed and getting refurbished.

 

@toot the above figures you quoted show precisely what I was saying, the prices do not change all the much from station to station, whereas the figures you quoted me earlier in the discussion and I copy and past them here "7 kW public charging from anything like 20 pence to 44 pence a kWh, or Rapid Charging from 30 to 50 pence or as much as 80 pence a kWh?" show massive percentage changes of 20p to 44p = 120% increase from the cheapest to the dearest for a kWh. The 30p to 50p = 66.666% increase and the 30p to 80p = 166.66% increase.

 

Compare that with 154.7 litre to 159.9 litre = 1.033%

So the difference in pricing is way lower. The point you make about the bunkered fuel is self-evident at many locations across the UK with a clear indication given as to which pumps are designated for HGV's and cars / light goods such as vans. There are some of these near to me as well.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

36 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherVery true as to just a few pence difference on liquid fuel for motorists,

other than when not true, like maybe the difference of many pence between a Dundee Supermarket Filling station and an Aberdeen & ones in between or ones in Elgin etc etc, Super Market or non supermarket.

The Commercials fuel at filling stations or Fuel Suppliers is very different. Delivered to Haulage Yards, to farms and forests etc.    Same fuel from Distributor to user. 

Not sure what point you're trying to make here, I was just trying to compare like with like. i.e, cars at a normal filling station forecourt and with EV cars at a normal charging location. I really doubt anyone is that daft enough to go to suppler for farms and construction plants etc as the diesel is coloured red and attracts different taxation rates and their fuel is normally supplied by tankers direct to the farmer or construction sites own on site tanks and are delivered direct by specialised distributors which are not open to the public and I would have thought (judging by those near me) don't have brilliantly lit forecourts and are normally hidden behind high fences / security walls.

 

Haulage yards have to use white diesel, which is the same as that used in diesel powered cars and taxed the same, hauliers can claim some of that tax back, private users cannot.

Edited 27 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher