I am starting to plan ahead for the future EV charging without knowing what vehicle it will be other than it will most likely to be old and needing repairs so probably an earlier generation one. I am currently wiring the ground floor and workshop electrics so want to make provision.

 

A few naive novice questions.

 

Is there a standard or convention for where the charging points are on the cars, left, right, front or back? I am planning where the charge point will be and don't want to have to reverse the car in to recharge.

 

If time is not of the essence is there any reason why charging can not be done from a suitably protected standard 16 amp French TP+T socket or does it have to be a special waterproof plug (it will be under a car port) or a special charging unit?

 

Do the dedicated charging units communicate with the grid operator by data over the power lines? With the Linky smart meters they already have the ability to remotely cut off or reduce supply according to demand, they are running a trial where they will reduce the current to 3kva and if successfull will roll out across the country.

 

Is there a universal home charging socket that most EV drivers would be able to plug their charging leads into?

 

Any links etc welcomed.

oooh I like this

 

i

Surely going to be worth every penny of the £60,000 plus. 

Heated cup holders

 

 

57 minutes ago, J.R. said:

A few naive novice questions.

 

Is there a standard or convention for where the charging points are on the cars, left, right, front or back? I am planning where the charge point will be and don't want to have to reverse the car in to recharge.

 

If time is not of the essence is there any reason why charging can not be done from a suitably protected standard 16 amp French TP+T socket or does it have to be a special waterproof plug (it will be under a car port) or a special charging unit?

 

Do the dedicated charging units communicate with the grid operator by data over the power lines? With the Linky smart meters they already have the ability to remotely cut off or reduce supply according to demand, they are running a trial where they will reduce the current to 3kva and if successfull will roll out across the country.

 

Is there a universal home charging socket that most EV drivers would be able to plug their charging leads into?

Unfortunately no convention for charging point location. Front centre, front side fender and rear sides have all been used. Only way to plan ahead is to install a charge point with untethered Type 2 socket. Then buy a suitable length "home" cable for your EV so there's no excess cable to deal with.

I would highly recommend adding a plug holster as close as possible to socket on your EV after you get your EV, the location of charge point then becomes irrelevant and it would save a lot of time not needing to handle the cable.

 

Charging can be done from any plug with the right adaptor. I'm not familiar with French standards. In UK, Earthing is connected to neutral and bound to pipework. So if grid has fault on neutral line, you touching your car would be dangerous. I think that is called TN standard. You want either open-PEN protection on TN standard (most UK sold wall installed charge points have this built in) or convert to TT standard by installing an earthing rod.

 

The dedicated installed charge units communicate using your internet connection or mobile data in UK. Again, not familiar with France, In UK there is no way to communicate over power line. Smart meter all use mobile data network.

 

All latest EV use Type 2 connector. This is the universal connection in Europe. Only a few early EV use Type 1 (Leaf). If you want greatest compatibility, get a charge point with untethered Type 2 socket, then buy a "home" cable for any EV you end up with.

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

oooh I like this

 

I have been watching the development of this for a while now, it was covered on YT four years ago and there are a few videos of this now on YT and as Rooted mentioned, it supposed to be around the £60,000 price bracket.

 

 

That sort of price has been spoken of for a good while now. 

Surely (Shirley) that can not be possible with Low Volume productions and quality materials. 

 

Whoever is putting in the money for the development of the vehicles and then getting production going need to be getting money back in sometime in the not too distant future.

 

Or is this yet another manufacturer thrown millions of public money in one way or another. 

 

 

Edited 22 March, 20242 yr by Rooted

9 minutes ago, Rooted said:

That sort of price has been spoken of for a good while now. 

Surely (Shirley) that can not be possible with Low Volume productions and quality materials. 

 

Whoever is putting in the money for the development of the vehicles and then getting production going need to be getting money back in sometime in the not too distant future.

 

Or is this yet another manufacturer thrown millions of public money in one way or another. 

And don't call me Shirley 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Or is this yet another manufacturer thrown millions of public money in one way or another. 

 

Send enquiries to Unit 2, Common Farm, Common Lane, Mappleborough Green, Wariwickshire, United Kingdom, B80 7DP.
I grew up only a few miles from there. 
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09856196/officers
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/21yHeOlyilNJCyF5Sb0wPMCMZEk/appointments

Edited 22 March, 20242 yr by @Lee

48 minutes ago, Rooted said:

That sort of price has been spoken of for a good while now. 

Surely (Shirley) that can not be possible with Low Volume productions and quality materials. 

 

Whoever is putting in the money for the development of the vehicles and then getting production going need to be getting money back in sometime in the not too distant future.

 

Or is this yet another manufacturer thrown millions of public money in one way or another. 

 

 

Dr Li has no history ;o)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216411/Revealed-Rover-directors-mysterious-lover-Qu-Lis-links-Chinese-firm-lifts-shifts-British-motor-industry.html

@Winston_Woof Looking like there is more to this than meets the eye, will the UK make or own anything soon? Little China town.

14 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

the mini seriously needs to go on a diet. 

 

Can you "fat shame" a car? 

Bayerische Mist Wagon 0.5 Series?

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Winston_Woof Looking like there is more to this than meets the eye, will the UK make or own anything soon? Little China town.

Well it did feel underplayed in that specific YT video……….

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Only way to plan ahead is to install a charge point with untethered Type 2 socket. Then buy a suitable length "home" cable for your EV so there's no excess cable to deal with.

I would highly recommend adding a plug holster as close as possible to socket on your EV after you get your EV, the location of charge point then becomes irrelevant and it would save a lot of time not needing to handle the cable.

 

What is this plug holster that you are talking about?

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The dedicated installed charge units communicate using your internet connection or mobile data in UK. Again, not familiar with France, In UK there is no way to communicate over power line

 

What exactly are they communicating? Why the need to communicate anything when you are charging your vehicle at home? - I am probably missing something obvious here.

 

11 hours ago, wyx087 said:

All latest EV use Type 2 connector. This is the universal connection in Europe. Only a few early EV use Type 1 (Leaf). If you want greatest compatibility, get a charge point with untethered Type 2 socket, then buy a "home" cable for any EV you end up with.

 

Understood but what does "untethered" mean?

 

What is special about a charge point aside from carrying more current than a domestic socket and some sort of protection to prevent charging if there is not earth continuity?

 

Can you not just install a Type 2 socket on a dedicated circuit conforming to the regulations?

 

OK I appreciate that in the UK you have to be a qualified electrician which I am (or at least was) but here in France it is not a requirement.

I like the reviews of this Ali-Express type 2 charger! 🤣

 

"It was more expensive for 26 days, through the Holy it was more expensive for 2 days, the packaging of the Boule was not mixed in the middle of the new, the charger itself was packed at the water-penetrating bag, as it was on the leap region, mazhe pratsuvati without Earth, maximum string 16A"

 

And

 

"Having bought three such charging annexes. One working on the drink of rock. Alone without working through tizhdena. Without turning a penny, and the guarantee is not to be lost. Not Raju kupuwati from The Tsogo seller."

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

I like the reviews of this Ali-Express type 2 charger! 🤣

 

"It was more expensive for 26 days, through the Holy it was more expensive for 2 days, the packaging of the Boule was not mixed in the middle of the new, the charger itself was packed at the water-penetrating bag, as it was on the leap region, mazhe pratsuvati without Earth, maximum string 16A"

 

And

 

"Having bought three such charging annexes. One working on the drink of rock. Alone without working through tizhdena. Without turning a penny, and the guarantee is not to be lost. Not Raju kupuwati from The Tsogo seller."

All the more reason I will never use AliExpress or places like Temu 

There's a lot of evidence they use 'dropshippers' who disappear when orders have been placed. 

14 hours ago, J.R. said:

I am starting to plan ahead for the future EV charging without knowing what vehicle it will be other than it will most likely to be old and needing repairs so probably an earlier generation one. 

 

Forgive me if I've mistaken you but I was of the belief that your next car would be a Skoda Roomster.

Have you changed your mind?

There's a lot of retro EV conversion places popping up but I've never seen an EV Roomster. Maybe you could lead the way. 

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

What is this plug holster that you are talking about?

 

What exactly are they communicating? Why the need to communicate anything when you are charging your vehicle at home? - I am probably missing something obvious here.

 

 

Understood but what does "untethered" mean?

 

What is special about a charge point aside from carrying more current than a domestic socket and some sort of protection to prevent charging if there is not earth continuity?

 

Can you not just install a Type 2 socket on a dedicated circuit conforming to the regulations?

 

OK I appreciate that in the UK you have to be a qualified electrician which I am (or at least was) but here in France it is not a requirement.

As I understand it:

A "tethered" charger has the cable connected to the base unit permanently.

An "untethered" charger the charging cable can be detached from the base unit.

NB In both cases the "charger" is actually in the car with the base unit containing mainly protction devices & relays

AFAIK there's no reason (other than regulation) why any competent person couldn't install a Base Unit themselves providing the cable run from the distribution box is correctly rated for the continuous current draw  ( I believe that 6MM SWA is more than suitable) and the correct protection device (see link) fitted at the distribution box.

You may also want to run in a Cat5 or Cat 6 Data cable at the same time especially if the Base Unit is not WiFi enabled.


Regarding communications , most Base Units have some form of Smart Reporting/Control often CLoud Based although some may only need to communicate with a local hub(bit like a Hive unit for your heating)
 

Edited 23 March, 20242 yr by Winston_Woof

On 21/03/2024 at 23:39, Lady Elanore said:

My Jag, which is a pretty wide car, or so I thought, is 'only' 2042mm inc mirrors. It's not as wide as a Mini  !!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s all the extra A’s in Jaaaaaaag that add the width. 
 

@J.R.

 

EV stuff is all over the place, but most chargers need 32A and some communication cables and CT clamps.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/doncaster-cables-ev-ultra-ev-charger-cable/p44108

 

This stuff has 5 power cables (3xL+N+E) and a cat5 cable and comes in armoured too. That one is 10mm but for shorter runs it comes in 6mm and longer runs in 16mm. They also do a single phase one.

 

For the small cost I would run the correct size of the 3PH to wherever you might want an EV charger and from a rotary isolator at the DP end into an empty box at the other.

 

The right size would then allow you to connect 1 or 3 Ph @32A, use 2 pairs for 100Mbit eth and connect 2CT clamps to monitor grid and solar. If you can stick a stand alone cat6 length in there too that way all comms and up to 4 CT could be covered.

 

Obviously you need to comply with all local electrical regs etc, but if I was doing work and wanted to be ready that’s what I’d get put in.

 

Once in, don’t forget you can still run a suitable short run from the junction to the charger if it turns out to be on the wrong side, but a 5M type 2 cable will solve most issues.

 

Edited 23 March, 20242 yr by cheezemonkhai

Question, what would happen in the case of the internet / comms failing, does the charger then shut down or drop down into a trickle charge state to prevent battery damage? 

@J.R.  Against all advice from those in the know i am just charging up to as much as 30 kWh from a cable plugged into my 3 pin wall socket & outdoor extension cable.

Max 10 amp.

 

9 kWh  taking 3 hours 41 mins.

25kWh   "         10 hours 59 min.

28kWh   "         11 hours 58 min. 

8 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@J.R.  Against all advice from those in the know i am just charging up to as much as 30 kWh from a cable plugged into my 3 pin wall socket & outdoor extension cable.

Max 10 amp.

 

9 kWh  taking 3 hours 41 mins.

25kWh   "         10 hours 59 min.

28kWh   "         11 hours 58 min. 

It all depends on the capability of the charger, it will have a maximum power rating per hour and that is the governing factor. With a 10amp cable you are over running the cable slightly, that said of course it will also make a difference depending on the length of that cable, very short runs may get away with it. 

It is not a charger.

The 11 kW on board charger is in the car.  It is a 3 pin charger cable, often referred to as a GRANNY Charger. 

 

Not this one, that was bought before i had an EV.

The MINI came with it,s own one.

As to the charging, you can set in the car the max power you are charging at, regarding DC charging or AC from chargers, or from the Onboard charger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 March, 20242 yr by Rooted

Well, if you have a look at the following website, Cable Size Calculator | Find the size of your Wire/Cable you can enter the various parameters and do your own cable calcs, but I based in on the plug in cable from socket to car being 5 metres in length. It is clearly a single phase supply seeing as it is 13A plug fitted and based on 11kw then the cable and more worryingly, the cable feeding that 13A socket is actually (if the charger is being used at maximum power) is over running the cable at 3.7 times its rating, at full power it is going to get very warm to the touch. 

 

The table below is based on the highest allowable voltage drop of 5% and you can see that it comes out at 47.73A for the cable. Then you also have to add in the total length of the cable the length of cable from the socket to the fuse or MCB which makes it worse.

 

OK, assume your house has a ring main circuit for the power sockets, it means that the total power available is going to be around 32A, but that weatherproof socket will on a spur and fed with 2.5mm cable and you can see from the attached it needs 4mm.

 

2 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

It’s all the extra A’s in Jaaaaaaag that add the width. 
 

@J.R.

 

EV stuff is all over the place, but most chargers need 32A and some communication cables and CT clamps.

 

https://www.toolstation.com/doncaster-cables-ev-ultra-ev-charger-cable/p44108

 

This stuff has 5 power cables (3xL+N+E) and a cat5 cable and comes in armoured too. That one is 10mm but for shorter runs it comes in 6mm and longer runs in 16mm. They also do a single phase one.

 

For the small cost I would run the correct size of the 3PH to wherever you might want an EV charger and from a rotary isolator at the DP end into an empty box at the other.

 

The right size would then allow you to connect 1 or 3 Ph @32A, use 2 pairs for 100Mbit eth and connect 2CT clamps to monitor grid and solar. If you can stick a stand alone cat6 length in there too that way all comms and up to 4 CT could be covered.

 

Obviously you need to comply with all local electrical regs etc, but if I was doing work and wanted to be ready that’s what I’d get put in.

 

Once in, don’t forget you can still run a suitable short run from the junction to the charger if it turns out to be on the wrong side, but a 5M type 2 cable will solve most issues.

 

 

The cabling side of things I am completely familiar with although some of your acronyms mean nothing to me:

 

3PH - 3 phase?

 

CT clamps??????????

 

2CT, 4CT clamps?

 

I think I am correct in the first oine as you speak of 3xL + N + E, I am not trying to create a rapid high speed charging station for the public but simply want to charge my own EV in the future overnight like Root but with a dedicated higher ampere circuit, our plug circuits are 20 amp anyway and the commercially available single phase charge points are 3.7 and 7.4 kw.

 

No way do I want to go to a 3 phase supply, the property had this when I bought it but overcurrent on one phase results in all 3 phases being tripped, I had 9kva Triphasé which would trip at 3kw on one phase, now I have 6KVA Monophasé which has a much lower standing charge and double the tripping current, I can go up to 9KVA (at a higher standing charge) on the existing overhead wiring, they will change it FOC to larger coductors if I choose to go to the maximum monophasé supply of 12KVA, they replaced the cables a year ago when I went from 3 phase to single phase.

 

Both you and Winston Woof advocate having Ethernet cabling, I have the same question for you both that I asked earlier, why would I need or have to have data communications to put a battery on charge overnight?

 

Who is it communicating with? The power company or me? If the latter I cant see any reason why I would want to be disturbed but maybe I am missing something.