Octopus announce free electricity hour tomorrow 1 until 2 pm.

 

Also looking forward to the time when the hour goes back as this means 6 hours of the very cheap electricity rather than 5 for car charging and the rest of the house.

 

Wonder if diesel and petrol stations wi ve doing something to counter the EV running cost. Budget in 11 days may well have a negative aspect for ICE future.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

How can they claim 300 ultra rapid stations when he says that they have 10 bays and 4 long wheelbase bays and only at 150kW? What am I missing here? 

 

SSE having 10 bays at this site and 300 rapid sites on their network.  

One of dozens of suppliers with similar setup as part of the tens of thousands of rapid charger locations with hundreds of new ones being added every month.

 

11 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

Rare earth metals are increasingly rare in EVs as most have moved on to using common materials.

 

Who mentioned rare earth materials. Again with deflections and defensiveness

8 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

I wonder:

Today you can buy an ICE car built in the 20's that wont have lost any range and probably performs as well as it did when new.

Wonder if people in 100 years will be able to day the same of EVs?

I doubt that they will be able to say that when you remember that the battery has been around since 1839 (History of the battery - Wikipedia) and has gone through many changes in performance and size, style etc since then and in 1794, Robert Street patented an internal-combustion engine, which was also the first to use liquid fuel (petroleum) and built an engine around that time. That liquid fuel would have been in a container of some sort, and simply filling that container with the same type of liquid fuel would give that engine a good chance of still be able to work. History of the internal combustion engine - Wikipedia

1 minute ago, Winston_Woof said:

Who mentioned rare earth materials. Again with deflections and defensiveness

 

As usual you were being imprecise, if you are referring to lithium it is everywhere it is just the Chinese have invested in the processing. Mined in Australia abs South Ameruca but plenty of it in the deserts of the US and in Cornwall too. 

Easier to get the manufacture of EVs even cleaner than to extract the carbon from the air which is going to costs many tens of billions.

 

5 hours ago, Ootohere said:

If a EV,s battery losses the capacity it had when new and you do not need the full capacity anyway then why give a ****.

If you are not getting one, then you need not give it a 2nd though, and if you get a lease vehicle for work or pleasure / transport then it is not really worth bothering you pretty little head!

Does the same not also apply to ICE when some of the horses have escaped, the fact that have escaped does not make one iota of difference for most drivers as they not bothered  if a car take a second or 2 longer to get upto speed, unless of course you are racing. What people want to know is that X amount of fuel should be roughly enough to Y miles before needing another top up.

22 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

As usual you were being imprecise, if you are referring to lithium it is everywhere it is just the Chinese have invested in the processing. Mined in Australia abs South Ameruca but plenty of it in the deserts of the US and in Cornwall too. 

Easier to get the manufacture of EVs even cleaner than to extract the carbon from the air which is going to costs many tens of billions.

 

Again, what's with the fascination  of deflecting away from a truism?

I never mentioned any form of  materials , I spoke very generically about  EVs being good for the  place they are being used in (which they are)  at the expense of moving problems elsewhere in the supply chain, which includes (but is not explicit)  power generation pollution  as well as  any potential additional mining impact etc etc etc

1 hour ago, Winston_Woof said:

I cannot dispute that at a local level at point of use EVs are both better for air quality and also offer less noise pollution. 
 

At the probable expense of moving problems elsewhere  in the supply chain

 

Well just ask the questions that can fill the gaps in your knowledge.

My company is the largest mover of finished vehicles "in the world".

Also one of the big three shipping lines and biggest contract logistics companies are we are going green as quickly as we can with cleaner trucks via BYD, aircraft using bio fuel, ships using LNG. The supply chain is decarbonise, just need private vehicle owners to join the movement.

 

Edited 19 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

SSE having 10 bays at this site and 300 rapid sites on their network.  

One of dozens of suppliers with similar setup as part of the tens of thousands of rapid charger locations with hundreds of new ones being added every month.

 

But that information was not conveyed in the video was it? Once again, as in so many videos, the truth is often hidden. How many time have we all read here that there are no queues at charging sites etc and that the infrastructure is fit for purpose, despite many other YouTubers saying the complete opposite and indeed even in the video that started whole chain off (Autoalex cars) when they talk about it at 13:00 in the video, oh I get it, they set up the scene I expect some will say 🙄. (1039) £1000 CHEAP ELECTRIC CAR VS 500,000 MILE TESLA! - YouTube
 

So it seems that even the good and positive YT videos and Vloggers are just as guilty as the ones that so many are only too ready to call out as being biased and EV haters and spreading FUD are, using their fair share of "Clickbait" and yet nobody is calling it out on channels which are pro EV, how ODD, talk about double standards.

Edited 19 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Octopus announce free electricity hour tomorrow 1 until 2 pm.

 

Shame I can't take advantage of it, away from tomorrow for a week or so.

 

I haven't yet set up anything for my Powerwall in Home Assistant. So all existing automation that draws power for the hour would cause almost everything to come from the home battery if I don't manually intervene by via app manually. I can draw 12 kW on demand with cars, the Powerwall 3 spec says it can deliver 11 kW, even more instantaneously. I'm not able to change any setting manually (like a caveman) whilst on the road.

 

Once I do add it to HA and automations setup, I should be able to either dump 11 + 5 kW on demand, or draw 5 + 5 + 7 kW on demand. Completely flexible whenever the grid provides incentivise, I'm ready.

 

I've been off-grid for whole of today. Physically disconnected by setting Gateway to go off-grid with a "clunk". Smart meter been reading 0 since 8am.

 

 

Edit, this just came to me. I can change the electricity schedule to a 0 cost one for 1-2pm, then change it back when I get to my destination. This would cause Powerwall to charge from grid during that time.

Edited 19 October, 20241 yr by wyx087

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

As usual you were being imprecise, if you are referring to lithium it is everywhere it is just the Chinese have invested in the processing. Mined in Australia abs South Ameruca but plenty of it in the deserts of the US and in Cornwall too. 

Easier to get the manufacture of EVs even cleaner than to extract the carbon from the air which is going to costs many tens of billions.

Lithium does not fall into the accepted definition of a "rare earth" element Rare Earth elements but the elements used to make the fixed magnets in the electric motors "stronger" most definitely do fall within the accepted definition, most notably Neodymium, Praseodymium and Samarium.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Well just ask the questions that can fill the gaps in your knowledge.

My company is the largest mover of finished vehicles "in the world".

Also one of the big three shipping lines and biggest contract logistics companies are we are going green as quickly as we can with cleaner trucks via BYD, aircraft using bio fuel, ships using LNG. The supply chain is decarbonise, just need private vehicle owners to join the movement.

 

Which is all very nice but it doesn’t change the fact that although EVs may be good for the “high street” environment (noted other environments are available) there is a cost to pay elsewhere. 

1 minute ago, Winston_Woof said:

 there is a cost to pay elsewhere. 

Especially in countries that still generate a lot of their electricity by burning fossil fuels, most notably China which consumes over 50% of world coal.

 

Coal Consumption by Country

 

 

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

Especially in countries that still generate a lot of their electricity by burning fossil fuels, most notably China which consumes over 50% of world coal.

 

Coal Consumption by Country

 

 

 

That is what happens when you make the world's stuff.

Even when adding several times more renewable then anybody else.

 

There is a new Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism which will tax carbon intensive goods 

 

With the upcoming Trade Wars, which will keep me busy, the consumer will suffer on more expensive goods because goods have a carbon penalty.

 

Interesting times. Google CBAM if one wishes to understand how this future works.

 

A 22 kW battery Renault Zoe with a 125 km (77.6 miles) range replaced & giving it 240 km range. 

 

77.6 miles divided by 20 kWh usable = 3.8 miles a kWh.  Old battery.

149 miles divided by 37.7 kWh usable = 3.95 miles a kWh.   Replacement battery.

 

 

 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

A 22 kW battery Renault Zoe with a 125 km (77.6 miles) range replaced & giving it 240 km range. 

 

77.6 miles divided by 20 kWh usable = 3.8 miles a kWh.  Old battery.

149 miles divided by 37.7 kWh usable = 3.95 miles a kWh.   Replacement battery.

 

 

 

 

Batteries ie 22 and 41 kwh nominal same physical form/size, a few kilos different but not much so battery with about twice tge capacity just slots in. CANBUS system similar too so resets seem to work. Not quite so easy with the 52 kwh nominal, 55 kwh actual battery in the Zoe ZE50.

 

41 kWh battery supposedly has about 20% of its cells held in reserve and can be good for around 400km range at the city speeds ie as good as the ZE50.

 

Much prefer the digital dash and styling of the ZE50 to the 22 and 40.

 

Don't like the no seat height adjustment in the Zoe but understand the LG packs were chunkier then until the much thinner and modular packs in the Megane and Scenuc EVs.

 

Another trip to the  North West of England tomorrow, Sanctions training, be interesting how the mad weather will effect energy efficiency.

 

On 19/10/2024 at 11:57, lol-lol said:

 

Polluting as it goes probably worse than it was when it was new.

Hopefully a heafty lump of excise duty coming in for petrol in the budget, and at least inflationary rise on diesel too.

A control mechanism of excise duty to keep the price of diesel and petrol at about £1.50 a litre at the pumps to prompt the transition to EVs.

 

Currently not seeing any sign of that myself but as always with politicians, anything is possible😅. On the other hand it does rather look highly likely that from April next year all EV owners could be getting a £600 VED bill to bring you all into line with ICE owners, not before time either as you use the roads just the same. 

 

With all the money we motorists pay, if it was spent on the roads we'd have the best roads in the world, fuel duty, Vat, car tax, VED etc. 

22 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Currently not seeing any sign of that myself but as always with politicians, anything is possible😅. On the other hand it does rather look highly likely that from April next year all EV owners could be getting a £600 VED bill to bring you all into line with ICE owners, not before time either as you use the roads just the same. 

 

With all the money we motorists pay, if it was spent on the roads we'd have the best roads in the world, fuel duty, Vat, car tax, VED etc. 

 

I think the first year of EV is due to be £10 at renewal and then the full rate, currently £190 in 2026 but as mentioned in another post EV registered keepers are planning to renew their taxation date in March so EVs will renew each March and therefore extend the £10 rate as long as possible.

 

I have tried to read statements on the application of the luxury tax to EVs already registered but whether it retrospectively applies I went for the Scenic with the RRP of £38k rather than the £41k to £46k versions of the Scenic so should avoid the luxury tax.

 

Expect we will see a big drop in EV RRPs but less discount to avoid the luxury tax which should be no problems as EVs will be sold at or below cost to hit the mandated percentage of sales being EVs and margins put on ICE cars to compensate 

 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

'£600 for All EV Owners'   

Not going to happen & that would only be near in line with the Premium Taxed vehicles.

 

Even people that do not have cars  or motorised vehicles pay for the roads in the UK and people in the EU paid quite a lot for many miles of them as well.

 

@Graham Butcher  What is all this money you talk about having spent, just the Fuel Duty & VAT & the VED over the years?

 

That was to get you about, not to benefit others was it?

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Unless things change on 30th October.

 

EVS first registered on the 1st April 2025

 

First year £10

 

2nd year onwards £190 plus £410 if the list price was above £40,000  for 5 renewals

 

Evs registered after 1st April 2017 but before 1st April 2025  £190 . No supplement.

 

EVs registered 1st March 2001- 31st March 2017  £20 , This also applies to all Petrol and Diesel cars in that cohort that previously paid £0

 

The £10 annual discount for hybrid and AFVs will be removed, and the rate you will pay will depend on when the vehicle was first registered. If the vehicle was:

• registered before 1 April 2017 - this rate will depend on the vehicle’s CO2 emissions (check the current rates for this vehicle)

• registered on or after 1 April 2017 - you will pay the standard rate (this is £190 for 2024 but is subject to change for 2025)

4 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Unless things change on 30th October.

 

EVS first registered on the 1st April 2025

 

First year £10

 

2nd year onwards £190 plus £410 if the list price was above £40,000  for 5 renewals

 

Evs registered after 1st April 2017 but before 1st April 2025  £190 . No supplement.

 

EVs registered 1st March 2001- 31st March 2017  £20 , This also applies to all Petrol and Diesel cars in that cohort that previously paid £0

 

The £10 annual discount for hybrid and AFVs will be removed, and the rate you will pay will depend on when the vehicle was first registered. If the vehicle was:

• registered before 1 April 2017 - this rate will depend on the vehicle’s CO2 emissions (check the current rates for this vehicle)

• registered on or after 1 April 2017 - you will pay the standard rate (this is £190 for 2024 but is subject to change for 2025)

 

Thanks. Both my EVs are September renewal so the £10 would be due then, single payment rather than 83p a month or so and then a year after that, and the RRPs, £35k and £38k, do not attract the luxury £400 a year but even if I had gone for the £41k model it still would not have got the luxury car tax as only cars registered after 31st of March 2025 will be affected.

 

Be interesting to see how many thousands of EVs dereg the reg in March to shift their renewal date.

 

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

Thanks. Both my EVs are September renewal so the £10 would be due then, single payment rather than 83p a month or so and then a year after that, and the RRPs, £35k and £38k, do not attract the luxury £400 a year but even if I had gone for the £41k model it still would not have got the luxury car tax as only cars registered after 31st of March 2025 will be affected.

 

Be interesting to see how many thousands of EVs dereg the reg in March to shift their renewal date.

 

 

 

The ages of the cars in your profile suggest they will both be £190, It is not the first year they have been eligible for ved , it's just the year they will no longer have it £0

4 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

 

The ages of the cars in your profile suggest they will both be £190, It is not the first year they have been eligible for ved , it's just the year they will no longer have it £0

Definitely worth, taking one off the road in Feb and the other in january so they both can start their taxed year in Q1 rather than Q3, save almost £200.

 

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

Definitely worth, taking one off the road in Feb and the other in january so they both can start their taxed year in Q1 rather than Q3, save almost £200.

 

 

 

You don't have to take them off the road from what i have read elsewhere. You can sorn one day and re tax the next and "pay £0" for twelve months would then both be due  end of Feb 2026

18 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Be interesting to see how many thousands of EVs dereg the reg in March to shift their renewal date.

How do you 'dereg' a vehicle and shift the renewal date? I was under the impression that the date of first registration in the UK in the V5C was start point for taxation and MOT.

 

The 'luxury tax on vehicles with a list price of over £40k is £410, this is added to the ved for the vehicle. If your vehicle is £190 the luxury tax will make it £600.

EV's are currently exempt.