13 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

I  am very new to the ev life but what i do notice in Macmaster videos is

He always seems to get up in the morning needing to charge the car?

He always seems to charge to 100%?

He always shows the car starting to charge and shows it starting then goes away?

He always comes back just before 100% and shows the speed of charge then?

 

 

From other bloggers this is stated as everything not to do.

Exactly. It's all designed to show EV in the worst possible light with thumbnail to match. That channel has had its biggest growth using this method so the "drama" will continue. It's like Top Gear but without the actual entertainment and banter, only 1 block acting stupid. 

 

 

I had supercharged in the morning once, to avoid charging on the way back in the afternoon. 10min to the first supercharger en-route wasn't enough to pre-condition the battery. But 15min charging was still enough to get back on the road and get home with comfortable margain. Battery heats up when charging, ride that high for a bit and dash when it slows down, don't need to wait for 100%. 

 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by wyx087

?

Serious question, as i do not know.

 

How much does the indicated miles per kWh drop as you Pre-Heat the battery to be getting to a charger to charge quicker?

Do you use extra energy and then have to make that back up, so as you come to a halt the car shows less range to the battery percentage? 

 

ie

can you be getting 2.4 miles a kWh, and pre-heat and get to the charger and the car shows you were getting just 2.1 miles a kWh.?

24 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

?

Serious question, as i do not know.

 

How much does the indicated miles per kWh drop as you Pre-Heat the battery to be getting to a charger to charge quicker?

Do you use extra energy and then have to make that back up, so as you come to a halt the car shows less range to the battery percentage? 

 

ie

can you be getting 2.4 miles a kWh, and pre-heat and get to the charger and the car shows you were getting just 2.1 miles a kWh.?

The efficiency figure will drop as precondition is happening. By how much I have not measured and it will depend on a lot of variable, precondition length of time, driving condition (motorway speed = more waste heat to use from motors), many temperature readings, etc. 

RSEV video often say their efficiency was 3.5 mi/kWh (let's say) and get to the charger average at 3.3 mi/kWh due to preconditioning. 

 

After all, you do use extra energy to heat up the battery. But with mordern (post 2020) Tesla with heat pumps, after charging that heat energy in the battery is scavenged back into the cabin for heating. There is a slight efficiency cost in summer as the car works hard to dump excess heat energy outside. Luckily efficiency isn't normally a problem in summer. Summer if parking up after supercharging could also hear car working and SoC drop 1-2% as the car works hard to reduce battery temperature to reduce battery degradation. The software manages everything automatically. 

 

One way to avoid this is, if not in any hurry, navigate to a nearby destination, not the actual charge location pin. I then use S3XY button to start precondition based on how much speed I feel I need. Above 30c seems to charge quick enough, but car seems to want precondition to over 45c for fastest rate. The car's waste heat from motor during a long run is normally enough to sufficiently heat up the battery to optimum ~30c. 

 

 

For non-Tesla and any EV more mordern than Nissan Leaf, I can highly recommend CarScanner app and an OBD dongle to try to work out what is going on in the background. I personally find this the most ineteresting part of EV. I used to monitor diesel particulate filter closely like this, but that is pretty straightforward based on a few parameters. Tesla uses so many more parameters and different behaviour for each condition, the "octovalve" is a work of engineering art. Shame it's all invisible to the end user without scanner tools. 

 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by wyx087

Thanks,

I did think the Tesla might be more efficient at the pre-heating.

As to others, pay for more kWh to get charging and taking less time charging.   'Time being money for some', and for others, maybe 'who cares how much charging costs'.

 

I see plenty that do not care about paying £1 a minute over the 40 or 50 minutes max charging time, not just in prestige cars, but ones in ordinary EV cars or works vans. 

Even not bothered at a £30 penalty once over 60 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

I  am very new to the ev life but what i do notice in Macmaster videos is

He always seems to get up in the morning needing to charge the car?

He always seems to charge to 100%?

He always shows the car starting to charge and shows it starting then goes away?

He always comes back just before 100% and shows the speed of charge then?

 

 

From other bloggers this is stated as everything not to do.

I can understand the needing to charge in the morning thing, if he has had a long day the day before, the last thing he wants (I wouldn't anyway) is to add any more to it by charging before getting home, especially when he has a home charger, which is an AC charger so a slow charge and as such will not add that much to a battery that was already low from the previous days trip.

 

The 100% charge is acceptable if as has already been mentioned many times, you need the range that day and he does indeed cover some miles for his blogs.

 

Walking away while charging? What's wrong with that, I think most people would do that unless they take a flask of coffee etc with them. If you want to go and have a pi$$, you have to walk away and leave the car?

 

Anybody who has ever charged any form of a battery already knows that as it gets, fully charger, the speed drops 0ff, only an idiot would think that it always charges that slow speed all the time.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, who has an ICEv and only ever fills the tank to 80%. Nobody. 

24 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I can understand the needing to charge in the morning thing, if he has had a long day the day before, the last thing he wants (I wouldn't anyway) is to add any more to it by charging before getting home, especially when he has a home charger, which is an AC charger so a slow charge and as such will not add that much to a battery that was already low from the previous days trip.

Intelligent Octopus Go will give cheap charging for the whole time car is parked if the user needs it. So let's say 8pm get back and 7am leave gives 11 hours of 7 kW charging, 77 kWh into the battery gives over 3 hours of motorway driving before needing to find a rapid charger.

 

26 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, who has an ICEv and only ever fills the tank to 80%. Nobody. 

Different machines, different mentality required.

 

You wouldn't use a digital camera in the same way you use film camera. Different machines, different mentality.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

You wouldn't use a digital camera in the same way you use film camera.

You turn it on, you point, you press the shutter - same on both film and digital - not the best analogy you could have chosen.

43 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

You turn it on, you point, you press the shutter - same on both film and digital - not the best analogy you could have chosen.

Quite, the possibilities with a digital camera far exceed those that you can do with a film camera right from just clicking the shutter you have more options and then even more after post editing in less time and better results than you'll ever get with a normal consumer film camera

Easy use cameras if you get one of the point and shoot one and instant results, replaceable batteries or rechargeable, maybe a lead needed to plug into another device if no Bluetooth but as long as not to many settings just child's play.

 Like EV,s really, which is much like an Electric Kart or even a dodgem.  No electricity no go. 

Added complexity maybe rather than just kept simple. 

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Walking away while charging? What's wrong with that, I think most people would do that unless they take a flask of coffee etc with them. If you want to go and have a pi$$, you have to walk away and leave the car?

 

My point here was that he shows the slow charging speed at the start and the slow charging speed at the end.

 

The charge can start slow at the beginning to prepare the battery it then ramps up until around 80% when it starts to slow down again to protect the battery.

 

If he left at 80% he could half is charging time and if necessary charge later to 80% using the time he had sat for the extra 20% earlier.

 

 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, who has an ICEv and only ever fills the tank to 80%. Nobody

 

Many have an ice vehicle and only put £20 in?

When a car is getting near 200 miles from 100% then to 80% that is just 160 miles.  Ok if you are just going that or want another song and dance about the next charge stop.

getting to 90% and 180 miles might be Simply Clever. 

*As it is depending where you charged 98% might do or even 95% , if you are going to be getting regen when you leave a charger, like you went up someplace to charge, and then you are going down for a few miles. *

 

The low battery charging speed is just a minute or so to ramping up.  Pre heat for arrival or just arrive.

 

@Stonekeeper Have you done much public charging while on the go yet, and how much range does your car show with a full battery?

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Walking away while charging? What's wrong with that, I think most people would do that unless they take a flask of coffee etc with them. If you want to go and have a pi$$, you have to walk away and 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again here, who has an ICEv and only ever fills the tank to 80%. Nobody. 

 

When filling at expensive motorway stations I would oft only put £20 or three quarters of a tank as not to reward those who set high prices. Would do that even if using a fuel card and therefore not my money, only the BIK tax. Filling ICE cars very full can damage the engines systems and Renault have carried warnings for years with the 3 click rule ie don't continue filling when it clicks the 3rd time.

 

Carrying extra weight lowers mpg of course.

 

Have worked out how much weight is added after EV charging. Seem to remember an electronic is about one two thousands the weight of a proton. I guess it might be a few grams ?

 

TheMacMaster is filling his boots or just the battery @39 pence a kWh and getting views / clicks and then all the more to spend on buying Drinks when he does.

All while making fun of those that have a flask and sandwich box. 

 

in 75,000 miles of charging EV,s out and about, over 60,000 of that at Public chargers i have sat in someplace to have food and a drink maybe 5 times when travelling alone

and about the same because a passenger wanted to. 

I do actually eat in places when travelling in vehicles and when with people or meeting people, grandchildren etc.

Just not a habit when charging, and as it is it is only really since getting the MINI that i use chargers where there is someplace to eat or drink as when charging was free around Scotland it was just in some car park maybe near shops or near nothing, especially not toilets. 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

54 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Have you done much public charging while on the go yet, and how much range does your car show with a full battery?

 

I am relying on @domhnall 's info on youtube and other bloggers at the moment because we hibernate from Sept to April, never seen a 100% figure but at 80% it has said 180mile but currently 170.

 

The number of times a year I travel more than 90 mile from my base place is less  than twenty.

 

I am pretty confident though with a 58kw usable battery and up to120kw charging possible. I will never need more than 1hr to recharge the battery when i do.

 

I will not be crying over the faster charger prices. I was aware of what they were before i started.

 

At this point i would not advocate an ev as suitable for all but for some people's needs they are perfect.

28 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

When filling at expensive motorway stations I would oft only put £20 or three quarters of a tank as not to reward those who set high prices. Would do that even if using a fuel card and therefore not my money, only the BIK tax. Filling ICE cars very full can damage the engines systems and Renault have carried warnings for years with the 3 click rule ie don't continue filling when it clicks the 3rd time.

 

Carrying extra weight lowers mpg of course.

 

Have worked out how much weight is added after EV charging. Seem to remember an electronic is about one two thousands the weight of a proton. I guess it might be a few grams ?

 

When the pump clicks off the first time and then a 2nd time and a 3rd time, it does not add much more fuel at all between the 1st and the 3rd, about half a litre at most, all you are doing is filling the filler neck between the tank and the filler cap. This is something you should not do, especially if the car is then going to be parked up and left exposed to high temperatures as the fuel expands and leaks past the filler cap it creates a real fire risk and fuel reaching the ground pollutes the ground. It cannot damage the engine, fuel is fed to the engine under pressure anyway, its just another case of misinformation or being economical with the truth. 

10 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

When the pump clicks off the first time and then a 2nd time and a 3rd time, it does not add much more fuel at all between the 1st and the 3rd, about half a litre at most, all you are doing is filling the filler neck between the tank and the filler cap. This is something you should not do, especially if the car is then going to be parked up and left exposed to high temperatures as the fuel expands and leaks past the filler cap it creates a real fire risk and fuel reaching the ground pollutes the ground. It cannot damage the engine, fuel is fed to the engine under pressure anyway, its just another case of misinformation or being economical with the truth. 

 

On modern cars it can damage the Evaporative Emission Control System (EVAP)

4 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

I am relying on @domhnall 's info on youtube and other bloggers at the moment because we hibernate from Sept to April, never seen a 100% figure but at 80% it has said 180mile but currently 170.

 

The number of times a year I travel more than 90 mile from my base place is less  than twenty.

 

I am pretty confident though with a 58kw usable battery and up to120kw charging possible. I will never need more than 1hr to recharge the battery when i do.

 

I will not be crying over the faster charger prices. I was aware of what they were before i started.

 

At this point i would not advocate an ev as suitable for all but for some people's needs they are perfect.

I think the 80% figure has come about because it takes a lot longer to go 80% to 100% than it does from say 30& to 80% because as the battery charges up, its voltage also increases the voltage opposes the voltage being applied to the battery from the charger. As this voltage increases, the available voltage to push the power into the battery decreases so the power cannot flow as fast as it did when the battery voltage was lower, as the battery discharges, its voltage drops (think of your phone battery), you then plug the charger in and the voltage of the charger is higher than that of a nearly flat battery so the battery charges quicker and slows down as it nears it full state.

 

The reason for this 80% level is because the battery is less likely to suffer damage causing a thermal runaway scenario, look at all the cases of EVs being recalled because of potential fire risks, the manufactures then are issuing instructions to owners not to exceed 80% SOC and also not to charge or park the car in, under or adjacent to buildings in order to reduce the risks of a fire until they have fixed the problem. 

10 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

On modern cars it can damage the Evaporative Emission Control System (EVAP)

Either way, it is still miles away from the 80% level of EV's, what is half a litre among friends?

 

On an EV 80% means that your battery still has another 20% to go before it is fully charged. On a ICE car with a 66litre capacity fuel tank, 80% of that is 13.2 litres away from being a full tank.

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

When the pump clicks off the first time and then a 2nd time and a 3rd time, it does not add much more fuel at all between the 1st and the 3rd, about half a litre at most, all you are doing is filling the filler neck between the tank and the filler cap. This is something you should not do, especially if the car is then going to be parked up and left exposed to high temperatures as the fuel expands and leaks past the filler cap it creates a real fire risk and fuel reaching the ground pollutes the ground. It cannot damage the engine, fuel is fed to the engine under pressure anyway, its just another case of misinformation or being economical with the truth. 

 

Fabia Mk 2, I had a super fun VRS with the supercharger and turbo, you could get another 5 litres in beyond its 45 litre nominal capacity. Great for getting the impressive range of over 600 miles if careful. It needed at least 98 octane fuel. One just leaned the petrol pump nozzle on the little black button in the cars fuel tank neck and bobs your uncle over 10% more fuel tank volume. Good when you had that x pence per litre voucher off fuel.

 

Cars don't seem to have them anymore and as you say only do this when starting that long journey. Fabia VRS did over 100 miles before fuel gauge even moved off full. Great memories except had to ditch the OE Conti tyres as the VRS would melt them after a few miles spirited driving, sorted when moved to pilot sport tyres.

 

My boss has an EQC 400, nice for a jaunt but not good efficiency as based on ICE car and very heavy. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think the 80% figure has come about because it takes a lot longer to go 80% to 100% than it does from say 30& to 80% because as the battery charges up, its voltage also increases the voltage opposes the voltage being applied to the battery from the charger. As this voltage increases, the available voltage to push the power into the battery decreases so the power cannot flow as fast as it did when the battery voltage was lower, as the battery discharges, its voltage drops (think of your phone battery), you then plug the charger in and the voltage of the charger is higher than that of a nearly flat battery so the battery charges quicker and slows down as it nears it full state.

 

The reason for this 80% level is because the battery is less likely to suffer damage causing a thermal runaway scenario, look at all the cases of EVs being recalled because of potential fire risks, the manufactures then are issuing instructions to owners not to exceed 80% SOC and also not to charge or park the car in, under or adjacent to buildings in order to reduce the risks of a fire until they have fixed the problem. 

 

Depends on the EV. My Comfort Scenic is still wacking in charge at 80, 90 and 99% SoC and the new crop of LFP batteried vehicles still charging at above or around 50 kwh even in the upper percents of SoC. Just not the 125 kw or so lower down the SoC.  If one is stopping for food and not just a wee wee and coffee then with some EVs no bother or waiting getting 50 kwh of charge and knocking on 200 miles and no waiting other than what one would do on any journey in respect of output and input to one's self as well as the EV.

 

Another case of not letting the truth get in the way of the narrative, I keep see people trotting out the claim that ICE cars are far more likely to catch fire than an EV. Now I'm not going to repeat what I have said before, but that bubble is about to burst.

 

 

13 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Fabia Mk 2, I had a super fun VRS with the supercharger and turbo, you could get another 5 litres in beyond its 45 litre nominal capacity. Great for getting the impressive range of over 600 miles if careful. It needed at least 98 octane fuel. One just leaned the petrol pump nozzle on the little black button in the cars fuel tank neck and bobs your uncle over 10% more fuel tank volume. Good when you had that x pence per litre voucher off fuel.

 

Cars don't seem to have them anymore and as you say only do this when starting that long journey. Fabia VRS did over 100 miles before fuel gauge even moved off full. Great memories except had to ditch the OE Conti tyres as the VRS would melt them after a few miles spirited driving, sorted when moved to pilot sport tyres.

 

My boss has an EQC 400, nice for a jaunt but not good efficiency as based on ICE car and very heavy. 

 

 

Yep, those Fabia Mk2 VRS with that kit on board are a mean machine for fun, proper little pocket rockets, often nick named as the licence stealer because a great deal of people lost their licence while driving one according to my Skoda dealer.  

16 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Depends on the EV. My Comfort Scenic is still wacking in charge at 80, 90 and 99% SoC and the new crop of LFP batteried vehicles still charging at above or around 50 kwh even in the upper percents of SoC. Just not the 125 kw or so lower down the SoC.  If one is stopping for food and not just a wee wee and coffee then with some EVs no bother or waiting getting 50 kwh of charge and knocking on 200 miles and no waiting other than what one would do on any journey in respect of output and input to one's self as well as the EV.

 

The law of physics still applies to them and any other type of rechargable battery, as they near full charge, the charging current will reduce and last few % will take longer.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yep, those Fabia Mk2 VRS with that kit on board are a mean machine for fun, proper little pocket rockets, often nick named as the licence stealer because a great deal of people lost their licence while driving one according to my Skoda dealer.  

 

When the car was dirty I would write 1.4 Skoda in the dirt on the back.

 

Having a little ding dong with what was badged up as a 2 litre A3 and got passed him at around 130 and I think they were quite surprised.

 

The Fabia VRS seem to hit a wall at around 130, even though one had the gearing headroom with the 7 speed dry twin clutch gearbox.

 

The Octavia VRS, petrol ones not the fake diesel VRSs,  was so different. Acceleration similar up to about 120 but the Octy did not hit an aero drag in my experience. Over 150 on the clock and still accelerating noticeably.

 

One can see why the Octy was used for the  2 litre forced induction land speed record and getting 228 on a two way average was awesome and stood for a decade or more.

 

Way different to my Scenic limited to 95 mph but I will live longer and so will my licence and freedom.

 

Edited 28 January, 20251 yr by lol-lol