the truth about electric cars

[Graham Butcher]

47 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Considering EV can and should be charged at destination with AC charging. Why do we need the same throughput of cars as petrol stations?

 

Destination chargers are not going to be available to millions of people, fact.

 

47 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

For trunk road services, to enable BEV long distance driving, throughput will eventually exceed petrol stations. For example the new installs at South Mimms services can match its petrol station throughput:

16 petrol pump stalls.

64 rapiWhd charging spots.

These service stations are not there just to service long distance driving, for many people they are also their local service station, that is certainly true for those at South Mimms as they are accessible to anybody, not just those on the A1M or the M25. The only ones that you could safely say are primarily for long distance drivers are those at service areas located on Motorways with no local access to the service area.

 

47 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Why does it matter that BEV must behave exactly the same as ICE vehicles? For that 55 years old example, just bang in a new battery during restoration.

Oh yes of course, why didn't I think of that? Do you think that perhaps batteries would not available for it, least of all as 2nd hand batteries as per the Leaf battery you provided a link to from Ebay. Electric motors could be rewound at a repair shop, but batteries would be extremely hard to repair/fabricate as batteries are designed to fit each car, its not like you can walk into a shop and purchase a pack 10 AA batteries, pop them into it and be good to go is it? 

 

You could certainly take that 55 year old car to any pump at any service station and fill its tank up, think about it.

 

You can also forget about servicing costs as for many people, it is way more than the sheer economics of ownership, its about personal connection, heritage etc. witness the historic London to Brighton run for vintage cars, many of which are 120 years old. 

Edited 10 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

Total crap on the Corsa Electric brakes.

The one i drove needed 2 sets of discs and because i did not use the brakes much and for the new owner at 3 years they will have needed to replace them again.

Just rusty rusty messes.

2 sets of drop links.  They are crap. 

6 weeks off the road with faults in 3 years. 

 

........................

Vintage and classic cars exist we know that, but they are from then and this is now.

 

So talk about the ICE Vehicles produced from 10 years ago and those at 50 or 100 years old and the BEV.s

That is comparing like for like, not vehicles fro the really 1900,s on.  

 

 

Edited 10 March by Rooted

[Winston_Woof]

there has been a previous "golden age" of EV motoring but ultimately ICE won out for any number of reasons .

Who's to say the current EV market isn't seen as just another sidebar in future histroy books?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/101002/history-of-the-ev-from-the-first-electric-car-to-the-present-day

[Graham Butcher]

@lol-lol Well you certainly got a good quote there and it is also I notice for a lower excess figure, best go get it lol.

[Graham Butcher]

The point about vintage cars is the fact that they are essentially identical to their modern ICE counterparts in their operation and they can still be driven and repaired and if new parts are required they can be made by engineering shops. They still use oil and petrol, and these do need any special adaptors in order to get them topped up. How many various and unique plugs/sockets are there already in existence for the purposes of recharging traction batteries. How long will it before support for the oldest and slowest vanishes?

Electric car charger types and connectors – a visual guide | RAC Drive  

[Graham Butcher]

32 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Total crap on the Corsa Electric brakes.

The one i drove needed 2 sets of discs and because i did not use the brakes much and for the new owner at 3 years they will have needed to replace them again.

Just rusty rusty messes.

2 sets of drop links.  They are crap. 

6 weeks off the road with faults in 3 years. 

 

Like all things not used, rust will attack and with regen braking, mechanical brakes receive very little wear and will need servicing just the same as you rightly point out and discs are going to be far more expensive than pads.

Edited 10 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

The BEV / PHEV Garage / Workshop and conversion trade is developing.

The Technical Colleges and Vehicle Colleges are running the coarse,s and getting on with what is needed into the future.

 

Somehow people seem to think that Companies and Businesses, Manufacturers and others are all mumpties and mumping on about EV,s is going to halt the future from happening.

Their business plans are set now and their financing etc.

 

Some will fall by the way side, there will be new developments. 

 

Back 51 years ago in 1973 when Mobile Phones were a novelty or a joke who would have believed that there would be homes without Land Line phones.

[Stonekeeper]

Hydrogen ICE instead of Hydrogen electric?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nBHGm-J-bc

 

[lol-lol]

Regret not going to the open day where I was invited to test.

6 out of the 7 cars were EVs.  Did not realise that some much lightening work had gone in to the Scenic. Beat the BMW 5 buy a dozen points and the others were way behind.

Peugeot was not too bad either. I think a EV version of the prettier Rafela is needed with the same 87 kWh battery.  Lots to look forward to.    

 

 

[Ootohere]

Drums on the rears of RWD or AWD BEV,s is something simply clever.

 

Servicing and Maintenance is required even if Consumables are not required.

 

ICE Vehicles now on SERVICE PLANS might well get nothing done to the brakes in 3-5 years.

Not even the wheels taken off, brakes serviced just a visual inspection, no brake fluid checks, H20 content or anything.

 

At least the BEV thing which is common is the Brake Fluid change at 2 years.

Well that is getting missed as well,  but that is what the UK Motor Trade is like.   More interested in telling owners the AC service is due at 2 years than the safety stuff.

[Ootohere]

If England can start producing enough Electricity and excess electricity or energy then it can start producing more hydrogen economically.

So just get on with it,

 

New hydrogen plants are coming, like the new nuclear,.   The maybe sometime in the dreams projects.

 

Get on with Fracking the funk out of England.  Get your Lithium Mines going in Cornwell.  Get the Water Projects going, get lots done and stop robbing the money from Oil & Gas revenue which is not Englands, it is the UK,s and England is not the UK.

 

If Wind Farms are needed then build them, and tidal and solar, and the pylons.      All nice having beauty spots and not wanting to ruin them, 

well do not expect Scotland or Wales to ruin theirs to provide cheap energy for England. 

[Graham Butcher]

@Rooted Yep, there is a load of the old "Not in my backyard" at play here, everyone wants all the advantages but none of the disadvantages, but you don't get anything for nothing.

[EnterName]

14 hours ago, J.R. said:

Given that with government encouragement you (the UK) now have a plethora of energy suppliers none of whom seemingly actually supply any energy, they just buy and resell and create a smokescreen of green claims, they are selling you grid electricity that they did not supply or create, so why can you not simply charge your vehicle at any charge point and the sum be added to your electricity bill from your energy supplier at your agreed rate?

Genius! 👌

[Graham Butcher]

42 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

Hydrogen ICE instead of Hydrogen electric?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nBHGm-J-bc

 

It all sounds great but then if you consider the space needed to store the equivalent amount of energy it does not look as attractive, but it is still worthy of further development, as indeed all forms of traction and energy, and then we have other alternatives available to us and a clear winner will ultimately emerge.

 

(1510) The Unfortunate Truth About Toyota's Hydrogen V8 Engine - YouTube

[lol-lol]

43 minutes ago, Rooted said:

If England can start producing enough Electricity and excess electricity or energy then it can start producing more hydrogen economically.

So just get on with it,

 

New hydrogen plants are coming, like the new nuclear,.   The maybe sometime in the dreams projects.

 

Get on with Fracking the funk out of England.  Get your Lithium Mines going in Cornwell.  Get the Water Projects going, get lots done and stop robbing the money from Oil & Gas revenue which is not Englands, it is the UK,s and England is not the UK.

 

If Wind Farms are needed then build them, and tidal and solar, and the pylons.      All nice having beauty spots and not wanting to ruin them, 

well do not expect Scotland or Wales to ruin theirs to provide cheap energy for England. 

 

Air Products, world's largest hydrogen producer, is putting a hydrogen plant in the Humber estuary using some of that lovely car cheap North Sea wind energy to produce hydrogen for U.K. and other countries.

Edited 10 March by lol-lol

[Winston_Woof]

UK Government does u turn on proposed electrification plans and instead champions human powered vehicles.

Due to the lower achievable speeds there will be less pedestrian  injuries, running costs are anticipated to be slashed and and added benefit is improved health of the general population from getting more cardio vascular exercise.

[Ootohere]

Aberdeen wants to be a Hydrogen City and is spending many millions.

Plenty Electricity produced nearby sand Hydrogen can be.  & brought by Interconnectors from the Northern Islands.

 

What a pity they can not heat the Public Swimming Pools, Leisure centers of freeze the Ice Rink.

 

They back the Electric Bike loan, hire, lease schemes, last minute deliveries etc.  What a pity about how often the weather is pretty crap.

[EnterName]

19 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

I have a car that can easily get me to my destination for the walk without using dinosaur juice and with a couple of hours charge can easily get back again.

This triggered a train of thought. There's an assumption that "fossil fuels" are indeed made from dinosaur fossils, and as the dinosaurs are all gone, use of fossil fuels is causing a finite resource to be depleted, lost forever.

I'm not sure this is correct.

 

But beyond that, there are quite a few ways of making sustainable "fossil" fuels, that don't depend of "fossils". If we put some effort into it, I'm confident we could find more ways, and make the process more efficient.

Rolls-Royce, for one, has renewable diesel, and is quite invested into environmentally-friendly sustainable fuels.

https://www.hydrocarbonengineering.com/clean-fuels/28102022/neste-and-rolls-royce-to-accelerate-the-shift-from-fossil-to-renewable-fuels/

 

I also notice things have gone oddly quiet on bio-diesel lately, though I can't imagine why. I remember when "Power your car from cooking oil!" videos were popular.

Being able to use waste cooking oil as fuel was a great idea. There's not enough of it to be used to power all diesel vehicles, but I reckon about 20% of current diesel vehicles used could be run on it.

Likewise growing crops that can be used as diesel fuel doesn't seem such a silly idea to me, either, though there are doubtless downsides to it, certainly for heavy commercial vehicles, bio-diesel seems to make more sense than EVs.

 

Then again, for the endless stop/start of Amazon delivery vehicles in urban areas, EVs seem to be perfect.

 

It's frustrating that a group of people seem to have got together and determined that EVs are the only way to go, when there are environmentally sustainable alternatives which for some applications, make way more sense.

Those alternatives now getting less development and research than they merit, especially with the infrastructure for distributing them already in place.

It just seems somewhat perverse to me, especially as the public would be reasonably happy to use environmentally-friendly fuels in their existing vehicles.

They did it with unleaded petrol, low-sulphur diesel, adding ethanol to petrol, LPG etc.

 

But back to the original thought, I'll pose a question: When do you think "fossil fuels" stopped forming naturally?

[Ootohere]

Since the UK is an Island Nation or 4 and the Poo & Pish needs processed to go back on the land or to the sea why is the technology already available not used for all off it to produce energy?

 

Because the Oil & Gas and Nuclear & Coal want to take the p!ss is why.    Just like the Water & Sewage companies.  Take the profits, sh!t all done for the environment.

 

PS

Problem with Growing Crops for Fuel is that England can not feed it,s self.

 

The waste from Crops can produce Gas, the rubbish tips can, that can produce electric.

It does local to me.  There are Farms now putting Gas into the Grid, and places with Battery Storage being built near these places and near the solar & wind farms.

 

Once England stops thinking and blocking the technology already available then you might advance to net zero, but sadly the issue is the Government & 

Oil & Gas & overseas Wealth Funds.

& some MP,s and Peers with their investments in the old technologies.  

Edited 10 March by Rooted

[EnterName]

6 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Since the UK is an Island Nation or 4 and the Poo & Pish needs processed to go back on the land or to the sea why is the technology already available not used for all off it to produce energy?

 

Because the Oil & Gas and Nuclear & Coal want to take the p!ss is why.    Just like the Water & Sewage companies.  Take the profits, sh!t all done for the environment.

They can do it when it suits them, as in AdBlue.

[Ootohere]

You are just not quite that bright really to understand AdBlue and the urea and rumours.

 

Wind and **** is in abundance here,

[EnterName]

9 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Problem with Growing Crops for Fuel is that England can not feed it,s self.

Not sure that is relevant to my point.

England can't sustain itself in ICE fuel, gas or electricity for that matter.

I think we're okay for coal though.

[Graham Butcher]

29 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

UK Government does u turn on proposed electrification plans and instead champions human powered vehicles.

Due to the lower achievable speeds there will be less pedestrian  injuries, running costs are anticipated to be slashed and and added benefit is improved health of the general population from getting more cardio vascular exercise.

Strange but that does seem to be the same message that Essex County Council are putting out for the future transport plans for my city. They want more of us to walk or use cycles and those cannot do so to use public transport.

[J.R.]

53 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Genius! 👌

 

Thanks for that, from the lack of response I was beginning to think maybe I had missed a massive elephant in the room and nobody was telling me.

[Ootohere]

@EnterNameWell you need to fire up coal occasionally because you might not have enough to make the tea.

 

EDF has a nuclear power station in Scotland that can power 75% of the homes but does not as the electricity is not required often.

 

England needs those small Modular Nuclear Reactors, and the Diesel Farms, & Coal and still pays more importing from overseas than it will to get Electricity from Scotland just incase that Scotland might split away. 

 

The Southern part of the UK and where the most live need to realize just how supported they are from others.

Lovely having wealth to buy goods and imports, but as it is maybe time you have some of your own food, energy etc available.

Energy and food security.