the truth about electric cars

[Ootohere]

The cash is no use when the Scanners go down as they have in the past.  

That is why i mention the tills.    

When Pitlochry was cut off about 14 years ago and power down there was back up for the pumps at 2 filling stations and out came the old Card Readers where you signed a slip. 

 

Around my area the Security Vans never filled cash machines as they would not travel.

I went the back roads into Dundee a few days in a row as i needed cash to buy a car. 

[J.R.]

I was musing today that within the next few years will probably be my first foray into EV's and it will certainly be like the majority of my previous vehicles a write off to put back on the road, not accident repairs this time but probably a battery recon or some other failed system.

 

I read recently of a 6 year old Nissan Leaf where the charging socket overheated and burnt, typical connector failure where the female contact opens up and starts arcing, nobody would fix it, everyone was quoting a new charging module for £6K I think it was.

 

It got me thinking which vehicles are going to be the lemons, the future EV equivalent of Betamax videos as that will surely be my first EV.

 

Who do you think will be the winners and losers?

 

I'm convinced there are going to be some unloved bargains out there in the future especially when the cost of electricity for locomotion becomes taxed how it will have to be.

[wyx087]

19 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Nissan Leaf

 

 the future EV equivalent of Betamax videos as that will surely be my first EV.

You've been reading about them 😅

Any Chademo rapid charging cars will definitely be the Betamax of EV in Europe, despite it was more feature-rich than CCS for many of its early years.

 

Rapid charging speed might be another one. 800v chargers will be common place in the future. Not able to take advantage of that and be current limited would not be ideal. For example, 400v cars can only charge at 175 kW on Ionity 350 kW chargers because the headline speed is at 800v.

 

But day-to-day usage, charged at destination AC charge points, there is no such thing as obsolete with any EV's. It will always able to accept 240v AC as long as on-board charger works.

 

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

It seems as if Euro NCAP have now woken up to the dangers posed by the trend towards touch controls on a central screen, and VW looks to be the first to react and promises to replace more touch controls with actual switches, stalks whatever.

 

Euro NCAP encourages car manufacturers to replace touchscreens with physical buttons | Regit

This link has the list of required physical controls: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-back-buttons-to-get-good-safety-scores-in-europe/

"Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features, like the European Union's eCall feature."

 

Apart from SOS function, everything has physical controls in both Tesla's older design and new Model 3. Of course, people have different definition of physical control. Are easy to find by feel haptic feedback touch "buttons", physical buttons? What level of wiper control is considered necessary, activation of wiper or right down to tuning its speed?

 

There's still time for them to decide on their rating criteria. But I'm not seeing stuff that people often complain about for Tesla:, climate controls, mirror controls, etc.

[@Lee]

ICE vehicles will still be getting sold in the EU up to 2035 so 'in the next few years' is still over a decade away. Even after 2035, new ICE vehicles will still be getting sold as long as the engine can run on what's known as 'e-fuels' which are carbon neutral. 

And even then you'll still be able to buy ICE vehicles on the used market. Nobody's forcing people to buy new EVs currently or used ICE vehicles in the future. 

What the taxation and duty will look like on fossil fuels remains an unknown. 

 

https://www.sae.org/news/2023/03/european-ice-ban#:~:text=The EU agreed to permit,'

 

[@Lee]

Just the Daily Mail's anti EV agenda on display again. Note how the article bears no relation whatsoever to the alarmist headline. Seriously, the DM just rots your brain.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13212177/Heavier-electric-cars-blamed-16-billion-cost-Britains-pothole-plague-crumbling-roads-reach-breaking-point.html

[Ootohere]

Elephant in the room / on roads.   Light Commercials, not so Light Commercials / goods vehicles, heavy goods vehicles.  Mini Buses.  Black Cabs. 

Busses, Bin lorries. 

Edited 19 March by Rooted

[lol-lol]

28 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Just the Daily Mail's anti EV agenda on display again. Note how the article bears no relation whatsoever to the alarmist headline. Seriously, the DM just rots your brain.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13212177/Heavier-electric-cars-blamed-16-billion-cost-Britains-pothole-plague-crumbling-roads-reach-breaking-point.html

 

It is widely circulated that road damage related to axle weight is to the 4th power so twice the weight then 16 times the road damage.   But then not only heavy Audis etc are some part of the problem but truck which can now be 44 tonnes, six axles I recall which would have four tyres I presume on that axles which works out about 3 tonnes through a tyre.  There are things called friendly axles I now read.  Some cars might be putting about 1.5 tonnes on an axle or a bit less than a tonne a tyre. Massively less than trucks therefore using the power to the forth.  

 

My little Zoe is not that heavy compared to many road cars though quite a lot more than cars of a generation or two ago which were half the weight but then they had little safely equipment. 

 

Like so many current social issues which is deflection from massive under investment and taxes not be collected like against non-Doms.  Decaying society from a morally bankrupt government. 

 

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/opinion/opinion-cars-have-a-weight-problem-and-its-damaging-more-than-the-environment/#:~:text=We've known this since,than a one-tonne car.

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

41.3 million plus vehicles on the UK roads or parked up and less than 1 million being BEV,s and maybe 1/2 of those or more not big BEV,s.

Edited 19 March by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

It is widely circulated that road damage related to axle weight is to the 4th power so twice the weight then 16 times the road damage.   But then not only heavy Audis etc are some part of the problem but truck which can now be 44 tonnes, six axles I recall which would have four tyres I presume on that axles which works out about 3 tonnes through a tyre.  There are things called friendly axles I now read.  Some cars might be putting about 1.5 tonnes on an axle or a bit less than a tonne a tyre. Massively less than trucks therefore using the power to the forth.  

 

My little Zoe is not that heavy compared to many road cars though quite a lot more than cars of a generation or two ago which were half the weight but then they had little safely equipment. 

 

Like so many current social issues which is deflection from massive under investment and taxes not be collected like against non-Doms.  Decaying society from a morally bankrupt government. 

 

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/opinion/opinion-cars-have-a-weight-problem-and-its-damaging-more-than-the-environment/#:~:text=We've known this since,than a one-tonne car.

 

 

 

 

If the roads were maintained better and the contractors and authorities were to exercise better control over the quality of the materials used, then the potholes more than likely would not have appeared in the first instance.   

[Graham Butcher]

4 hours ago, @Lee said:

Just the Daily Mail's anti EV agenda on display again. Note how the article bears no relation whatsoever to the alarmist headline. Seriously, the DM just rots your brain.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13212177/Heavier-electric-cars-blamed-16-billion-cost-Britains-pothole-plague-crumbling-roads-reach-breaking-point.html

Its like I said, repeat a lie often enough, then the gullible will believe it. So all the damage is done by electric cars and none by far heavier vehicles then, Idiots don't seem able to apply logic and or think for themselves any longer.🙄

Edited 19 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

Non Dom Jonathan Hermsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere, his family and those that own and run his Media Empire probably walk, cycle or just drive around in small city cars or use public transport.

[Paws4Thot]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Its like I said, repeat a lie often enough, then the gullible will believe it. So all the damage is done by electric cars and far heavier vehicles then, Idiots don't seem able to apply logic and or think for themselves any longer.🙄

That's all very well as far as it goes, but I've seen claims that road damage increases as the fourth power of axle weight from as long ago as the 1970s. I don't think you can blame the Daily Heil's present anti-EV agenda for those!

[Ootohere]

Someone will be to blame and if they were Right Wing Tories then we know who supported them.

 

SN00654.pdf

[skomaz]

Just for info road pavement construction and lifetime calculations use MSA or million standard axles and the calcs generally ignore cars and LGVs.  There are factors to apply in the calcs for them but they don't usually have much impact or make much difference as the axle weights are small compared to HGVs.

 

Also that reference document re weights and dimensions is effectively superseded now as Longer Semi Trailers or LSTs are now allowed to be used on the road generally and not just as part of a long running trial.

 

If I remember I'll dig out the technical note for the calcs tomorrow as it's on my laptop from some analysis I did for United Utilities and Lancashire County Council last year.  I'm pretty certain it's CD 224.

Edited 19 March by skomaz

[Ootohere]

Good road surfaces getting broken up is one thing.  

It does not take good eye sight to see that the repaired after repaired areas with potholes regularly there is commonly were where the road was dug up by various Utility Companies or by the contractors.  Those are not just little business,s doing a crap job, the Local Authorities know who they are or should do. 

[Graham Butcher]

10 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Good road surfaces getting broken up is one thing.  

It does not take good eye sight to see that the repaired after repaired areas with potholes regularly there is commonly were where the road was dug up by various Utility Companies or by the contractors.  Those are not just little business,s doing a crap job, the Local Authorities know who they are or should do. 

Roads get dug up for all kinds of reasons, but I recall years ago it was common place to see where the new patch met the old road surface, they would pour liquid tar along the joins to effectively seal any cracks between the two, so water could not get in and do damage to the road. These days, it is a very rare sight indeed to see that and hence why we see patches breaking up again after a few months, sometimes, even weeks after they were put in.

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

That's all very well as far as it goes, but I've seen claims that road damage increases as the fourth power of axle weight from as long ago as the 1970s. I don't think you can blame the Daily Heil's present anti-EV agenda for those!

No, quite right, I had a typo in my original posting, and now I have correct it to read as So all the damage is done by electric cars and none by far heavier vehicles then, Idiots don't seem able to apply logic and or think for themselves any longer.🙄

[Ootohere]

I see the hot tar being poured along the edges all the time.  Actually that seems to be the signature.  Job done, lets knock off for a while. 

[Graham Butcher]

6 minutes ago, Rooted said:

I see the hot tar being poured along the edges all the time.  Actually that seems to be the signature.  Job done, lets knock off for a while. 

Thats certainly not the normal mode down here.

Edited 19 March by Graham Butcher

[@Lee]

Re the hot tar being poured to seal the edges. I seem to remember something about cyclists complaining that it was slippy to ride on. Might be a reason they stopped using it.

All I know is it was a massive pothole that I hit that threw me arse over tit requiring a bone graft and screws to stop my left arm dislocating at random and nothing to do with hot tar sealing. 

[Graham Butcher]

I used to be a cyclist and I never noticed the hot tar being slippery to ride on, but then, like now, I never used tyres without a decent amount of tread left on them.

 

I bet the air was a bit blue when you had that nasty accident, it certainly would have been had it been me.

[Ootohere]

It is done here daily.  Tayside Contracts. 

The 2 guys always are on the go with the jug of tar and a scraper. 

 

It is the Utilities Contractors that often mess up, leave jobs sitting undone for weeks, then rush a job and move on. 

Not the Councils ex department that went Commercial. 

 

It is just a case of location location location and i cycled lots of roads and pay attention.

Edited 19 March by Rooted

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Good road surfaces getting broken up is one thing.  

It does not take good eye sight to see that the repaired after repaired areas with potholes regularly there is commonly were where the road was dug up by various Utility Companies or by the contractors.  Those are not just little business,s doing a crap job, the Local Authorities know who they are or should do. 

 

Absolutely...   Certain utility companies are terrible...   But some do repairs a million times better than tbe local authorities. 

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Roads get dug up for all kinds of reasons, but I recall years ago it was common place to see where the new patch met the old road surface, they would pour liquid tar along the joins to effectively seal any cracks between the two, so water could not get in and do damage to the road. These days, it is a very rare sight indeed to see that and hence why we see patches breaking up again after a few months, sometimes, even weeks after they were put in.

 

That's called overbanding but, as @Lee mentioned, it has fallen out of favour with many highway authorities as it creates a potential skidding risk and the authorities are risk averse. 

Edited 19 March by skomaz

[Graham Butcher]

35 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

That's called overbanding but, it has fallen out of favour with many highway authorities as it creates a potential skidding risk and the authorities are risk averse. 

Haha, could have fooled me, which is a greater risk, small chance of skidding on a small 2" wide of sealing tar or a having a wheel drop into a crater risking slashing of tyres (I have had this on my car) or worse, ripping entire wheels off the car and even greater risk of deseating someone on 2 wheels and hurling them into the path of oncoming traffic? 

 

Like this poor motorcyclist who was thrown from his bike over the side of a bridge (not pothole related though) Motorcyclist falls from Milton Keynes bridge after collision - BBC News

 

Edited 19 March by Graham Butcher