the truth about electric cars

[Graham Butcher]

@wyx087nobody is saying it is not possible to take a city or small EV on a long, but because of their smaller battery capacity, they need more frequent charging stops and thus longer time on the trip. Why did you elect to opt for the LR Tesla over the standard model? Was it perhaps to save charging stops and thus time on longer trips? 

Edited 26 April by Graham Butcher

[wyx087]

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Why did you elect to opt for the LR Tesla over the standard model?

When I put down my deposit, they only had LR available.

 

They then raised LR price, was during mad chip shortage mid 2022. A few week before collection, they made SR available. SR was £2000 cheaper than my order while LR was £4000 more expensive. 

 

In all honesty, SR would have been more than enough for my needs. I've only ever used full range (100% down to 8%) once on a day trip, having a short top-up break wouldn't have changed anything. There's DC rapid charger everywhere down south. 

 

 

My point is, UK is not exactly a big island. Civilisation is everywhere. It's not like people on this island regularly drive 1000+ miles American road trip, or really need that 600+ miles range because they are in the Australia outback. 

 

Especially up to Manchester, trunk roads DC rapid charging infrastructure has now been built up at incredible speed. City EV or LR EV doesn't matter, all can do long distance drive. Difference is a few more stops for car isn't designed for it. A few more comfort breaks for less suitable cars wouldn't hurt. Just as people driving CityGo wouldn't drive 200+ miles daily commute. 

[Ootohere]

I would not be leaving children, maybe children with a disability in a BEV or PHEV while charging with no adults around. 

50 kW charger now with a 70 minute max charge time.

I have not seen the Vivaro van (Open Reach) left plugged in here since the new tariff and rules came in this month. 

Edited 26 April by Ootohere

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The possibility is there for almost every modern car these days to be remotely disabled with ever-increasing use of electronic tech in cars.

 

Neither your car nor my car have that vulnerability.

 

For those who choose something like Skoda Connect then they have willingly put themselves in that situation, for vehicles like Tesla that do the on line updates etc and seemingly have constant internet connection does that mean you have to pay for a seperate data only mobile contract or have your mobile phone with you to drive the thing?

[Stonekeeper]

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Neither your car nor my car have that vulnerability.

 

For those who choose something like Skoda Connect then they have willingly put themselves in that situation, for vehicles like Tesla that do the on line updates etc and seemingly have constant internet connection does that mean you have to pay for a seperate data only mobile contract or have your mobile phone with you to drive the thing?

 

 

Interesting question because that would exclude me from having a Tesla. (no data contract on my Mobile phone)

 

All cars with the new SOS button (since 2018?) have their own sim card, i wonder if that is used by Tesla?

 

Answered here?

 

Edited 26 April by Stonekeeper

[Ootohere]

Best stick with dumb cars and take no mobile devices, not even dumb phones.  Stay off grid other than ANPR & CCTV. 

 

Really HMRC should have no issues with Business users mileages and work or personal use, and the driver keeping logs.

Digital logs, and signing in an out of work using devices is pretty standard.   Like HGV Drivers and Tacho,s, or driving for gain or reward.

It is time that things become simpler to keep records for anyone and everyone.  Or use a note book and pencil / pen.

 

Edited 26 April by Ootohere

[Ootohere]

[wyx087]

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

for vehicles like Tesla that do the on line updates etc and seemingly have constant internet connection does that mean you have to pay for a seperate data only mobile contract or have your mobile phone with you to drive the thing?

For Tesla: https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/connectivity

No ongoing cost for standard connectivity for first 8 years, this is basic map and live traffic based nav routing. (currently free for everyone)

Premium connectivity, benefits see link, is £10 per month. I plan to buy it for 1 month for my road trip to Skye.

Software and map OTA updates are downloaded whilst connected to Wi-Fi. Most premium features usable via Wifi (including via phone hotspot)

Without any connectivity, cars are still drivable, will also receive software and map updates via Wi-Fi, and bluetooth phone key will still work.

 

Reading the link. It seems I made the cut for lifetime free standard connectivity.

Quote

All new Tesla vehicles ordered on or before July 20, 2022, will have Standard Connectivity features at no cost for the lifetime of the vehicle.

 

For Nissan, as we've seen previously, support ended for 2016 and earlier cars with "CarWings" 😡.

2016-2020 have free connectivity similar to CarWings, ends whenever Nissan decides it's no longer worth it.

2020 or later cars have a subscription cost after first 3 years for different optional service packages (remote control, map update, live traffic)

 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/nissan-connect-pricing-post-free-3-year-complimentary-period.175585/

[Graham Butcher]

Bearing in mind how the software updates that Microsoft puts out for their operating system and how often a downloaded update breaks something else so they have to hastily put out another update to fix the last one, I should think that OTA updates on cars could be a buttock clenching time in case some other part of the car starts to malfunction afterwards?

 

Also, these computer updates can take a bit of time to do at times, depending on the size of the update, so on say a Tesla with the OTA updates, when does that occur, while the car is being used? While the car not in use? And if it updates when the car is not in use, what happens if you decide you need the car and its still doing the update, are you prevented from using car until its completed or how does that work?

 

Has anyone ever experienced an issue at all?

 

Edited 26 April by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

Yes they can be a PITA, even mean you are locked out the car with the keyless entry.  Then you discover what has changed, sometimes eventually.

If there was a Software Update done at a dealership which changed things, that changes can end up back to as they were.

 

Skoda Octavia MK4 owners have over air software updates as well. Sometimes once stopped. Sometimes asked to enable them.

 

 

 

Edited 26 April by Ootohere

[olddog]

@G.B. : That might be part of the reason so many VAG s/w updates have to be done @dealer 

 

( The traditional car makers seem to have terrible struggles with the concept of reliable remote software updates.   In fairness, if there is even a slight suspicion of a remote upgrade crapping out then its best that its done by & at dealer )

[Stonekeeper]

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Bearing in mind how the software updates that Microsoft puts out for their operating system and how often a downloaded update breaks something else so they have to hastily put out another update to fix the last one, I should think that OTA updates on cars could be a buttock clenching time in case some other part of the car starts to malfunction afterwards?

 

Also, these computer updates can take a bit of time to do at times, depending on the size of the update, so on say a Tesla with the OTA updates, when does that occur, while the car is being used? While the car not in use? And if it updates when the car is not in use, what happens if you decide you need the car and its still doing the update, are you prevented from using car until its completed or how does that work?

 

Has anyone ever experienced an issue at all?

 

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/software-updates#tesla-accordion-v2-9216-my-software-update-is-stuck-and-wont-continue.-what-should-i-do

Edited 26 April by Stonekeeper

[wyx087]

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Bearing in mind how the software updates that Microsoft puts out for their operating system and how often a downloaded update breaks something else so they have to hastily put out another update to fix the last one, I should think that OTA updates on cars could be a buttock clenching time in case some other part of the car starts to malfunction afterwards?

 

Also, these computer updates can take a bit of time to do at times, depending on the size of the update, so on say a Tesla with the OTA updates, when does that occur, while the car is being used? While the car not in use? And if it updates when the car is not in use, what happens if you decide you need the car and its still doing the update, are you prevented from using car until its completed or how does that work?

 

Has anyone ever experienced an issue at all?

Windows 10 and 11 updates have been problem and stress free for me for many years. It updates when I shutdown or overnight, zero problems.

 

Same with my MY, it notifies me via the app that update is available and plans to install overnight. I have the option to not install or install immediately. Update takes ~30min to install, I usually set it to install when I know I don't need the car for the next hour.

 

I've read a story on Reddit someone had wrong drivetrain software applied (error about wrong drivetrain, won't drive), sorted within 2 hour of raising the issue with Tesla, via another OTA update. Other than that, I've not heard or experienced any issue with the update.

 

The reason there's excitement with Tesla updates because it's seamless and actually add meaningful features.

Upcoming update is an UI update to bring it in line with the triangle truck: https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1988/inside-teslas-new-v12-user-interface

A feature wasn't sold and advertised was added over 1.5 year after I got the car: matrix headlights: https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1902/tesla-to-add-support-for-matrix-headlights-for-existing-vehicles-in-upcoming-software-update

One of those safety improvements: https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/upcoming-features/id/1644/tesla-updates-hazard-lights-frequency-to-improve-safety-in-software-update

I believe other companies are doing similar, VW v3 software added lots of necessary EV features.

 

On top of all that, the "Tesla vision" based adaptive cruise and lane centering (aka. Autopilot) function continues to improve. It used to go wide if a bend exceed max EU allowable steering angle. Then there was a period it would harshly brake when going wide to bring itself back in. Now it slows down at the bend, able to navigate some without intervention and staying within regulation. It used do phantom braking every time going under a particular bridge on a dual carriage way, I've not had any unexplainable phantom braking for many months. All that is on v11. Americans are getting full AI, zero hand written code v12 and reports say "full self driving" upgrade feature drives almost human-like.

[lol-lol]

Formula e Gen 3 Evo car - platform for the Gen 4 cas coming in in about a year and a bit.........

 

 

Key technical enhancements for the new GEN3 Evo race car include:

• The quickest accelerating FIA single-seater race car – Capable of 0-60mph in 1.82 seconds (0-100kph in 1.86s), 30% faster than a current F1 car.

• Faster, stronger, more agile – Performance upgrades providing an estimated 2% performance gain from GEN3, equating to a c.2 secs faster qualifying lap on the Monaco circuit, offering world-class racing on any track.
• Leaner and meaner – An aggressive new body kit designed to be stronger, more robust and more aerodynamic, delivering closer wheel-to-wheel racing.
• All-wheel drive (AWD) –A first for a Formula E car, available during qualifying duels, race starts, and ATTACK MODE. This feature maximizes acceleration and control, elevating the thrill of critical race moments and intensifying driver rivalries. AWD enhances both performance and strategy, providing more exciting racing for drivers and fans alike.
• Better grip – Optimised all-weather Hankook iON tires providing 5-10% more grip, made from 35% recycled and sustainable materials (+9% vs GEN3 spec)
• The fastest Formula E car: Top speed of 200mph
• Regenerative braking: Cars optimise the 600kw regenerative braking capacity to generate nearly 50% of the energy needed for a race, during the race itself.
• Enhanced performance by software: Race performance upgrades made through software engineering.
• Most efficient Formula car ever: An electric motor with over 90% efficiency, significantly surpassing the 40% efficiency typical of internal combustion engines.
• Minimising production footprint: The world’s first net zero carbon race car in the world’s first net zero carbon sport.
• Sustainable battery development: Suppliers of battery cell minerals selected on ethical and sustainable mining standards to ensure a positive or neutral impact on people and the planet.
• Lifecycle thinking: Life cycle thinking throughout the car’s construction; second life and recycling for battery cells; recycled carbon fibre and natural materials such as linen integrated into the chassis.
• Conscientious supply chain: All suppliers held to strict sustainability KPIs, achieving FIA 3* Environmental Accreditation certification by Season 9.
• Race-to-road transfer: Specific road-relevant areas of the car are opened for development by teams and manufacturers, designed for direct tech transfer to automotive industry.
• Ultra-fast charging capability: A new technological development still in development, designed to allow a 30sec 600kw high-speed charge for additional energy mid-race.

[Winston_Woof]

Ignore. Wrong question

Edited 27 April by Winston_Woof

[skomaz]

7 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

The scalping apparently have a monetary value. 
 

https://www.monebrosdiy.co.uk/products/tarmac-scalpings

 

 

actually there’s a thought. Is this being done officially or has some enterprising actors found a way to make money? After all nobody questions a road worker in a high viz jacket. Most people jus t go “fool me they’re actually working”

 

They have done for years...   They can be recycled or, reused as is.

 

I used them maybe 20 or more years ago for a yard at a big fresh wster pumping station.  If they are well graded or even with no fines they will knit together over time to create a semi bound surface that drains easily.

[J.R.]

I have used them since 2004 in France if it is road planings that you are talking about, "tout venant noir", it has lots of fines and when wackered down looks like tarmac and is very durable.

 

I wanted to use it where I am now, its far cheaper than the white calcaire (limestone) that everyone else uses but my pal who has been in this region much longer than me says it will be untolerable during a hot summer.

 

The other thing that has convinced me to use calcaire I discovered by accident, I wackered it down when it and the ground underneath was wet, the fines rose to the top like over-tamping very wet concrete but its given a good surface and it is nearly as hard and durable as concrete, most people use it as a sub base, dont wacker it and cover it in gravel for the crunchy sound, I have dragging the stones inside so will stick with my method.

[wyx087]

Wow, 600 kW regen.

 

This one is funny:

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/electric-car-vehicle-range-anxiety-b2535524.html

 

snippets:

Quote

One simple change gets rid of electric car ‘range anxiety’, scientists reveal

Much of the problem with range anxiety comes about because drivers of electric vehicles get stuck in their old mindset: constantly looking at how much range they might have left, and spending time thinking about where they might be able to charge up.

 

Instead, drivers might find it much better to switch to a new way of thinking, which researchers refer to as the “event-triggered model”. Rather than filling up when the gauge shows the petrol is running low, it means automatically plugging in whenever the driver arrives at home or work, for instance.

 

In that sense, it is less like the traditional model of a petrol car and perhaps more like the routine that someone might have with their mobile phone.

 

The researchers note that this change of mindset would still require changes in infrastructure. Helping people with it will mean focusing on putting chargers in places where people live and work, for instance – rather than putting them at the roadside, alongside petrol stations.

 

“In order for people to be able to use EVs in the best possible way, policies need to adapt to ensure that people have access to charging infrastructure close to their home or workplace where possible” Professor Sprei said.

 

No sh** Sherlock!

 

I've been saying this for years.

[Ootohere]

These Academics and others need to remember that there are a high percentage of people without homes where there can be a charger or have no workplace with a charger or maybe even parking nearby or public transport connections near where they live or work.

 

All these politicians and others that forget how many actually use cars that costs them out of their own pockets to run, and not all are 'suits', able to work from home, or fixed work places like offices or even factories. 

There are trades people who are self employed or contractors that might seldom see or visit the head office. 

[Graham Butcher]

On 26/04/2024 at 20:53, wyx087 said:

Windows 10 and 11 updates have been problem and stress free for me for many years. It updates when I shutdown or overnight, zero problems.

 

I can't vouch for Windows 11, still on 10 myself, but I'm not having the same degree of luck your having, but then again I could be, it might just come down to other add-ons I have like NAS drives etc, old legacy scanners etc. It often seem like the updates install OK but these extra bits then stop working until it gets reported to MS who then up with solutions.

 

That would be perhaps be the biggest worry with EV's when after market items are fitted later, and if they don't play nicely with the latest OTA updates to the OS, will they cause problems full stop with the other parts of the car like, the gear selector mode on the screen (swipe D-N-R) etc or the Autonomous driving / cruising etc?

 

Speaking of which, have you heard any more about that Jag and its driver who alleged that his car would not allow him to slow down/stop on the motorway??

[Graham Butcher]

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Wow, 600 kW regen.

 

This one is funny:

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/electric-car-vehicle-range-anxiety-b2535524.html

 

snippets:

 

No sh** Sherlock!

 

I've been saying this for years.

Hang about, I thought the optimum was to try and keep the battery within the 20 to 80% range but also that the battery had a optimum charge cycle life, so if thats true, surely then you wouldn't want to automatically plug in and charge it each day if you had sufficient charge for your next journey left over at the end of each day?

[lol-lol]

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Hang about, I thought the optimum was to try and keep the battery within the 20 to 80% range but also that the battery had a optimum charge cycle life, so if thats true, surely then you wouldn't want to automatically plug in and charge it each day if you had sufficient charge for your next journey left over at the end of each day?

 

If a Lithuim ion battery and maximising battery life is a goal. In racing and high performance EVs if you are only planning hundreds of charges and not thousands then charge to a higher percentage and C value ie several times more charge rate ie 100 kws for a 50 kwh battery which is C2.

If the battery was lithium iron phosphate then charging to 100% is OK.

Car display might show 100% but it is really 98% as car makes want you to shut off early to protect the battery by having a buffer of about 5% or so at the top and bottom of the state of charge indicator display but it will not show 103% or -3% or the like. One needs an OBD port device to show this.

 

[EnterName]

Ford is helping to save the planet.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses/index.html

[Ootohere]

Ford in the EU & UK are going to have to be First Registering enough BEV,s so as they are not paying a penalty on ICE vehicles sold.  Or their partners might if they use a partner.

That is this year and in the coming years as the percentage needed increases.

 

That means probably getting BEV,s offered that are smaller and cheaper than a Mach-E Mustang or Transit electric. 

[Graham Butcher]

@lol-lol yes I expect they have to read on the high side just like speedos do for a margin of safety.