the truth about electric cars

[wyx087]

1 minute ago, Winston_Woof said:

now if only there was a nation wide network of charging stations a bit like , oh I don't know, lets say petrol stations. You know,  somewhere you could refuel your EV in the same way you do an ICE vehicle then there needn't be any upfront costs.

Even better , wouldn't it be nice if your EV could be fully refuelled in a few minutes so that not so many charging points needed.

How many ICE owners have fuel tanks installed at their property so they can buy fuel in bulk and refuel cheaper than at the local Esso or Shell etc? as that's what you're effectively doing with EV home charging, isn't it?

You want to pay less per unit but there is an associated up front cost. Is this really wrong/bad?

now if only there was a nation wide network of electric distribution network , oh I don't know, lets say national grid. You know, something that would deliver your energy in the same way for everything else. 

Even better , wouldn't it be nice if your EV could be plugged in everywhere it is parked. Then it could even help the grid by soak up excess renewable and charge much cheaper. 

 

How many EV owners have solar panels installed at their property so they don't even have to buy fuel? 
 

 

 

Answering your last question, I don't feel having an up front cost to save in the long run is wrong/bad. Grants exist to help but it shouldn't remove the up front cost completely when there's saving to be made for the individual. 

[PetrolDave]

10 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

You want to pay less per unit but there is an associated up front cost. Is this really wrong/bad?

If you can't afford the upfront cost then the lower unit cost is irrelevant, and you'll keep driving an ICE.

[Ootohere]

If the emergency services, fire / rescue, police , ambulance where at hubs in towns and suburbs and there were transport hubs, parks and ride and ev charging there how forward thinking that would be.  Solar and wind and battery storage right there on and around the buildings.    Maybe not every place being adapted now but at New towns and estates being built on the edges of cities and between cities.    Low emissions transport hubs with hydrogen filling stations.  Kind of like that getting planning permission on the outskirts of Perth near Broxden and the Edinburgh, Glasgow and Inverness trunk routes. 

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

At least we agree on something.

 

The point I'm making is that for many people upfront costs are the problem to switch from ICE to BEV, and grants need to ofer more help if Net Zero targets are to be met.

 

Not sure it does for many and it did not for me in that I wanted to pay less than £300 a month for the car and the Zoe EV was that.

Yes I have got a big ICE car for long journeys and that is also less than £300 a month.  I need to do 10k plus miles for work a year so as many companies do the give a car allowance, which is sadly taxed but what I wish they would adopt quickly is to start using the Uk Gov EV salary sacrifice scheme which has had massive take up.

 

One think companies seem reticent to do is give company EV charging cards as there is not the check, as with fuel stations, that you are actually filling up the car with the reg you are suppose to !!     

 

[Winston_Woof]

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

If you can't afford the upfront cost then the lower unit cost is irrelevant, and you'll keep driving an ICE.

unless there was something like the petrol station network that would allow you to recharge anywhere you liked, when you liked and in a speedy manner and then you could drive an EV without any upfront cost of a home charger.

Just like an ICE ;o)

[lol-lol]

12 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

unless there was something like the petrol station network that would allow you to recharge anywhere you liked, when you liked and in a speedy manner and then you could drive an EV without any upfront cost of a home charger.
Just like an ICE ;o)

 

Works in 30 M locations in the UK........  

 

(compared to the dwindling number of petrol stations.  I have not got a petrol pump at home but I do have a 3 pin socket outlet)

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Really business / commercial drivers are a different animal because of plenty incentives, maybe not for them only for their employers.       Private buyers/ renters might be able to have there own cost saving incentives like low cost charging.    There are social divides within different groups.   Business and social use, or just Social, domestic, leisure / pleasure.    If the BEV is not for you then Just say no.     Life is too short, tomorrow you might be dead.  

[Stonekeeper]

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Works in 30 M locations in the UK........  

 

(compared to the dwindling number of petrol stations.  I have not got a petrol pump at home but I do have a 3 pin socket outlet)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Charging at less than 12 mile per hour? Not 40+ miles a minute like a fuel pump?

[lol-lol]

6 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

 

Charging at less than 12 mile per hour? Not 40+ miles a minute like a fuel pump?

 

Thereabouts, doing it when I am asleep at costing me only 2p for each mile whilst the ICE drive goes to a smelly place with carcinogenic particles in the air, has to leave the motorway/road to do this, take time out to do this rather than just get in the car which is full of traction power, after just pre-conditioning the car with ones phone so it is nice and warm and de-iced.  The ICE owner has just deposited a load if money in to Putin or a Saudi prince's bank balance, rather than using renewable energy. 

 

ICE driver drive drives off further polluting the world he and his/her kids and grandkids will try and live in suffering the cumulative harm of burning stuff pollution.....

 

[PetrolDave]

5 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

If you can't afford the upfront cost then the lower unit cost is irrelevant, and you'll keep driving an ICE.

 

2 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

unless there was something like the petrol station network that would allow you to recharge anywhere you liked, when you liked and in a speedy manner and then you could drive an EV without any upfront cost of a home charger.

Just like an ICE ;o)

It's not just about cost of the charger, it's also about the cost to change from an ICE to a BEV.

 

It seems to me many members on here are in a much better financial position than millions of people in the UK who are struggling to feed themselves or pay their energy bills - so the cost of borrowing to change to a BEV is for them simply not affordable.

 

Just because (it seems to me) many posters in this thread don't have those worries doesn't mean it's right to assume everyone is in that enviable position

 

[/rant]

[Ootohere]

Are you talking new, or used or older new.  If you want a bigger petrol or diesel and 7 years old then there are BEV,s for similar money.  The used BEV buying prices are dropping all the time.  Crashing.  As to smaller BEV,s.   There are loads for much cheapness now.    Some maybe worth avoiding.    Motability have thousands of BEV,s owned by them and going to BCA at 3 years old.  Loads of fleet BEV,s going into the used trade now.  

[Graham Butcher]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Thereabouts, doing it when I am asleep at costing me only 2p for each mile whilst the ICE drive goes to a smelly place with carcinogenic particles in the air, has to leave the motorway/road to do this, take time out to do this rather than just get in the car which is full of traction power, after just pre-conditioning the car with ones phone so it is nice and warm and de-iced.  The ICE owner has just deposited a load if money in to Putin or a Saudi prince's bank balance, rather than using renewable energy. 

 

ICE driver drive drives off further polluting the world he and his/her kids and grandkids will try and live in suffering the cumulative harm of burning stuff pollution.....

 

A 3 pin charging lead is not going to hack it on a car that already has a low SOC following a reasonable journey the day before, or had forgotten to charge it, and the following day you need to have a full battery for that day's trip. There are always going to be life's curved ball lobbed at you, and you have to react in a hurry, that odd emergency trip to rescue a stranded family member, medical emergency etc and with an EV you could be caught unprepared. It's fine for you as PetrolDave has already pointed out, you seem to be in a far better financial position than most people and have readily admitted that you have a larger ICE car for longer journeys, that you always fall back onto in such emergencies. Most folk only have the one car to rely on, and a slow charge is not going to cut it in emergencies, is it. 

[Ootohere]

Actually these used BEV,s will need to be offloaded by the Finance Businesses and owners because the Dealers are going to have to supply and sell new ones.   The motor trade needs turnover to survive.  The thing is that the EV,s that are being handed back were overpriced when first registered because of the grants at that time.  So a hit needs taken by someone.  We know who that is.  Us, Joe Bloggs, the pension funds etc. 

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcher  if you are a 200 mile a day, day after day person then think, get what you need.  Not a EV and a 3 pin cable.  It is not rocket science.    Maybe JUST get a TESLA and use superchargers.   Like 200 plus mile every day reps get. 

[Graham Butcher]

21 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Are you talking new, or used or older new.  If you want a bigger petrol or diesel and 7 years old then there are BEV,s for similar money.  The used BEV buying prices are dropping all the time.  Crashing.  As to smaller BEV,s.   There are loads for much cheapness now.    Some maybe worth avoiding.    Motability have thousands of BEV,s owned by them and going to BCA at 3 years old.  Loads of fleet BEV,s going into the used trade now.  

According to some people in the trade, especially in the trade of sourcing 2nd hand BEV's for their customers from auctions are actually reporting significant price jumps in the prices of used BEVs so the bubble has it seems been well and truly burst.

[Ootohere]

They would say that wouldn't they.    Their lips move. 

[Ootohere]

All the doom and gloom on here. People do not want EV,s, people can not afford EV,s, the Insurance is Crazy high.  The Charging Infrastructure is not good eniugh.

The Price of used EV,s has Plummeted, The demand is not there and EV,s are piling up unsold.  The Chinese Imports are killing the trade for other imports.

Now according to some brokers sourcing EV,s the price is high.

 

What is obvious is the Car Trade and Journalists fall into the same category as Estate Agents, Politicians & Commodity Traders (Politician - Commodity Traders called Nigel.)

[Graham Butcher]

26 minutes ago, Rooted said:

They would say that wouldn't they.    Their lips move. 

Well it would seem to be true, even if their lips do move 

 

 

[lol-lol]

52 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

A 3 pin charging lead is not going to hack it on a car that already has a low SOC following a reasonable journey the day before, or had forgotten to charge it, and the following day you need to have a full battery for that day's trip. There are always going to be life's curved ball lobbed at you, and you have to react in a hurry, that odd emergency trip to rescue a stranded family member, medical emergency etc and with an EV you could be caught unprepared. It's fine for you as Petrol Dave has already pointed out, you seem to be in a far better financial position than most people and have readily admitted that you have a larger ICE car for longer journeys, that you always fall back onto in such emergencies. Most folk only have the one car to rely on, and a slow charge is not going to cut it in emergencies, is it. 

 

My home charger is a 3.7 kw Pod point, not much a higher charging rate than a 13A 3 pin charger.  If you are effectively charging at 3 kWh per hour, put it on when you get home at 1730 then by 0800 in the morning you have had 14.5 hours of charge, 4 miles per Kwh at 3, 42 Kwh of charge, 170 miles of range added.  You could have added 20 kW on a DC fast or rapid charger during lunch or a coffee break so easily do 250 miles but yes it would be easier in a TESLA and many companies insist on using TESLA for their rapid charging on TESLA superchargers for that reason.  As in 2024 EV gain parity and fall below the cost of buying INCE cars, they are already much cheaper to run and service.

 

If an emergency get a taxi, I might have had a beer or two (the Black Heart Brew Dog was quite good on St Patricks Day as I could not get Murphys and I am not a fan of Gunniess_ 

Wait a few months or maybe a year or so and EVs will be driving themselves if the reports on TESLA FSD (supervised not beta) v12 are correct.

       

 

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcher  Ahh, Tesla.  You never said used Tesla.  Used EV,s cover many cars.   Like I posted.  If you need 200 miles or more and again and again maybe get a Tesla and use Superchargers if you can not charge at home.  

[Ootohere]

So people want EV,s.    What is all the crap from those that do not.  If you do not like Golfing and do not have a few hours to walk around hitting golf balls do not buy clubs or join a golf club.    Life is so straight forward. 

[Stonekeeper]

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well it would seem to be true, even if their lips do move 

 

 

 

I suspect there may be a good number of private buyers for that auction house

[Ootohere]

I am driving the diesel this week.  It was showing 220 miles range. I put in £70.50 at Asda and it showed 520 miles.  190 miles later it he as had 500 miles range available.   Bl00dy marvelous.  Stress free.  In 2 weeks I will be using the Electric Mini and first charge from home will be £15.00.  2nd charge likely £10.  Maybe another £10, then a £15 charge and home to charge to full will be £6.     Not cheap. Not cheaper than the diesel.  But how things can be in a small battery EV.    Love the MINI on the good driving roads.  And when a **** in a diesel is up my jacksy.  Or a dic-k head in a Taycan or Tesla that seem unable to stay on their own side of a road. 

[Ootohere]

PS.

Skoda Superb drivers are pretty much as bad as those EV drivers in full width ones.  All the lights on to the front and not that good at staying on their own side of the road or keeping a safe distance back.

They always seem to want to be the lead car and then act like Road Captains. 

[Graham Butcher]

19 minutes ago, Rooted said:

PS.

Skoda Superb drivers are pretty much as bad as those EV drivers in full width ones.  All the lights on to the front and not that good at staying on their own side of the road or keeping a safe distance back.

They always seem to want to be the lead car and then act like Road Captains. 

Nope, not this Skoda Superb driver, I've always been a safe and considerate driver, great respect for other road users and speed limits etc.