1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Would help if they mandated plug in and engines off within an hour or so for all ships mooring in the UK.

 

Might be some cable or cables.  MY Iona just come off can house 7000 crew and passengers.  If each person needed 3 kws, ship has lots of facilities, that would be off the order of 20 mws. Equivalent of 60 or so of the fastest ev chargers.

Southampton can have half a dozen cruise ships at the same time.

 

All for stopping hydrocarbon pollution in cities. Be great when it can be done but would take some infrastructure building and cruise liner and merchant ships would not want to pay 79p a kWh compared to their excise duty free LNG or diesel.

 

Ships already have to switch low sulphur fuel as they approach the uk, eu.

 

Got my vote to switch off hydrocarbon burning engines, perhaps we will see some more ships with batteries, investors act for their lecky and even motive power in UK waters.

Edited 20 August, 20232 yr by lol-lol

Aberdeen has Turbines right offshore and yet can not find the money to heat the swimming pools and leisure / sports centres that spent millions on.

 

The Port / Ships / Oil supply boats are getting Hydrogen produced from the electricity to power things in port.

The new built port Aberdeen South Harbour is looking at storing hydrogen underwater.

 

Arse over elbow sadly. 

Time to plan is before construction started on the new port.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 August, 20232 yr by toot

Back on point I was on the m/way with three electric cars together and none of them spontaneously caught fire.

 

When rapid charging no cars there caught fire either.

 

I did see the charred remains of what looked like an ICE van in a parking bay though, which was being removed.

15 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Back on point I was on the m/way with three electric cars together and none of them spontaneously caught fire.

 

When rapid charging no cars there caught fire either.

 

I did see the charred remains of what looked like an ICE van in a parking bay though, which was being removed.

Back on point again, I don't think anybody has actually stated that EVs spontaneously caught fire anymore than ICE vehicles do but when they do, If the battery is involved then it becomes much more complicated to deal with. If the battery does not become a part of the fire, then it is almost like any other car fire, starve it of oxygen, fire goes out, except there is the risk with high voltages. 

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

Yet to see one of these EV fires in the past 13 years and between 12-24,000 miles a year of driving. 

There are lots of EV cars, taxis & light commercials about and nobody i have spoken to with one over the past 4 years that i meet at charging hubs has never mentioned an EV fire.

 

What there is are lots of StageCoach busses going on fire but i have never been there when one of those go up.

I do see the reports in the papers or hear about them in the Media. 

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dundee-stagecoach-bus-bursts-flames-30290342

http://thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/4499194/stagecoach-bus-fires-broughty-ferry

 

Now that there are EV Bus services around Scotland and the UK lets hope there is never a fire with one of them.

Another night when my EV did not combust,, thanks the Lord.

 

Also two large lithium, one actually lithium iron phosphate to be precise, charged overnight, neither exploded.

Four smaller 100 to 400 wh lithium chargers did not explode and one power bank of around 30wh.

Nor did any of the 4 family lithium battery phones or two tablets.

750w 36v e-Scooter with the 3 12v lithium batteries survived the night as well.

Sure I have missed out several lithium devices.

Took my lithium last night and feeling happy this morning. (Not really but this element does have multiple uses.)

 

 

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by lol-lol

I suppose there is no such thing as a little Electrified vehicle fire. Hybrid / PHEV / BEV,s.

We know there are just a fraction of EV,s in the UK compared to all the other fueled vehicles.

Maybe the next time there is a report in the media of one in the UK someone can post that article.

18 minutes ago, toot said:

I suppose there is no such thing as a little Electrified vehicle fire. Hybrid / PHEV / BEV,s.

We know there are just a fraction of EV,s in the UK compared to all the other fueled vehicles.

Maybe the next time there is a report in the media of one in the UK someone can post that article.

 

I calculated the energy in my mild hybrid battery in my mild hybrid Arkana which is 0.2 kwh, wow.  By my maths my lead acid battery is 12.6v x 70A which is or about 900 wh so about 4.5 times larger than my lead acid battery.   The etech clio has a 1.2 kwh lithium battery so slightly larger that the lead acid battery in that car which would be similar to the arkana and in the clio they sit right next to each other beneath the boot floor.  So some lithium battery pack in mild and full EV are pretty tiny.  Capture PHEV has 9,8 kwh battery I gather, hardly worth plugging in and many will not I presume.  The Arkana and even Clio therefore have smaller batteries that my Allpowers and Bluetti portable chargeable batteries. Nowhere hear the half tonne 55 kw hour battery I have in the Zoe.

 

I also suspect some of these "battery" packs are using Ultracapacitors alongside the lithium battery, it what we did in my company's battery division, in fact used capacitors for much, if not all of the start stop driving in the buses we used this tech in.  Also we have had solid state batteries for more than a decade, it is not the new tech it is trumpeted as !   Not sure if capacitors are dangerous at all compared to batteries, might give a big spark but not much else I would have thought.

 

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by lol-lol

23 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Another night when my EV did not combust,, thanks the Lord.

 

Also two large lithium, one actually lithium iron phosphate to be precise, charged overnight, neither exploded.

Four smaller 100 to 400 wh lithium chargers did not explode and one power bank of around 30w.

Nor did any of the 4 family lithium battery phones or two tablets.

750w 36v e-Scooter with the 3 12v lithium batteries survived the night as well.

Sure I have missed out several lithium devices.

Took my lithium last night and feeling happy this morning. (Not really but this element does have multiple uses.)

 

 

For the record, neither did any of my 38 lithium powered devices that my family and I have, such as many phones, many tablets, power drills, torches, video cameras, portable games consoles, digital cameras and also pieces of electronic test equipment. They all have electronic BMS's built in them to prevent batteries getting overcharged, overheating etc., but like all things electronic, they can and do develop faults and nothing lasts forever in the electronic field. 

 

50 minutes ago, toot said:

Yet to see one of these EV fires in the past 13 years and between 12-24,000 miles a year of driving. 

There are lots of EV cars, taxis & light commercials about and nobody i have spoken to with one over the past 4 years that i meet at charging hubs has never mentioned an EV fire.

 

What there is are lots of StageCoach busses going on fire but i have never been there when one of those go up.

I do see the reports in the papers or hear about them in the Media. 

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dundee-stagecoach-bus-bursts-flames-30290342

http://thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/dundee/4499194/stagecoach-bus-fires-broughty-ferry

 

Now that there are EV Bus services around Scotland and the UK lets hope there is never a fire with one of them.

Yes, those buses that catch fire tend to be those with engines mounted at the rear or slung beneath the floor in a horizontal plain. I can't remember ever when there was a front-engined bus that caught fire. That I suspect is because the driver is right there and detect if there is anything happening with the engine and can stop and shut if off much quicker. With rear and underfloor engines, there are so far away from the driver that it is impossible for them to know if anything is wrong until it stops powering the bus or fire breaks out and someone alerts the driver.

 

As a person who did his apprenticeship with the National Bus Company I can hazard a guess why they catch fire as we had a few catch fire, not those in my care (which the largest garage/depot in the county but many did catch fire in smaller depots where I can assume from I saw of the overall level of maintenance which was IMV poor. The reason tends to be very poor air flow around the engines, diesel and oil leaks, and there are many areas where that can build up a small puddle over time and there is also a lot of dirt and dust etc that settles in these areas and is trapped by the moisture and this effectively becomes and thermal insulator to prevent the engine losing heat though its block etc so the oil/dust mixture heats up of the course of a hard days work and the large alternator tends to mounted close by these areas, and it just needs a few sparks from loose terminals etc and the oil/duct mixture slowly ignites and it grows until it is too late and engulfs the bus.

 

On the buses under my watch at my depot, I used to drive them to bus wash area and remove the floor access panels  inside the bus and the rear engined ones, I'd take off the side covers as well raising the rear access hatch and then I'd give them a good wash down with a pressure washer to endure that the build up never happened and that engines lost their furry insulation layers.

There was a Potter's Bar bus depo fire that had destroyed 2 plug-in hybrid and 4 diesel buses: 

https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/fire-at-potters-bar-bus-depot

 

I can't find the official outcome of the investigation. But according to this article from York, who resumed running the same model of the bus, the fire was caused by human error: 

https://yorkmix.com/york-electric-buses-back-on-the-road-after-depot-fire-investigation/

 

 

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by wyx087
corrected bus count, thanks @lol

I wasn't aware of that fire because the media was preoccupied with other things, it seems currently that so much news that should be reported isn't 🙄. But that does illustrate the inherent dangers with electric vehicles judging by the report of a witness who said it sounded like a jet which does tend to imply that the batteries had entered the thermal runaway stage and were venting flames out sideways with a roar as has been captured on CCTV at EV charging points. It is these jets of flame that are the danger as it quickly spreads the fire to adjacent vehicles etc. In normal fires, the flames go upwards, and adjacent vehicles can often be moved out of the way before they sustain too much damage from the radiated heat.

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

12 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

There was a Potter's Bar bus depo fire that had destroyed 6 electric buses: 

https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/fire-at-potters-bar-bus-depot

 

I can't find the official outcome of the investigation. But according to this article from York, who resumed running the same model of the bus, the fire was caused by human error: 

https://yorkmix.com/york-electric-buses-back-on-the-road-after-depot-fire-investigation/

 

 

 

Even the Fire specialist journalist misses out detail ie they say " At the height of the fire, eight engines were in attendance, and a total of six buses were on fire – two electric-hybrid, and four diesel-powered."

 

One presumes the two electric hybrid might be diesel hybrids but they could LNG hybrid or even hydrogen fuel cell hybrids but I thought TfL only had a half dozen of those as I use to deal with sending the fuel cell back to Canada to be refurbed every so often, like a decoke I gather.

 

Nearly all case, I suspect, are poor maintenance, somebody doing something silly like placing a strong heater to dry something out in a place they should not or maybe sabotage ?

 

US has over 100 firemen a year convicted of starting fires according to CBS article....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/fires-set-by-firefighters-a-long-standing-problem-experts-say-1.3563183

An arson expert based in California says firefighter arson is a recognized, ongoing problem, but it's difficult to know exactly how common it is because authorities don't keep records.   Edward Nordskog's comments come in the wake of a 19-year-old volunteer firefighter being charged on Saturday with 18 counts of arson, for a spate of suspicious fires in and around the town of Mayerthorpe, Alta. The fires included a massive blaze that destroyed the CN trestle bridge.   Lawson Schalm, son of a former town mayor, is scheduled to make his first court appearance in Stony Plain provincial court on Wednesday.  Nordskog said he tracks serial arson cases.  "There's roughly 100 firefighter arsonists convicted every year in North America and all of them are serial arsonists, which means three or more fires," Nordskog said Monday in a telephone interview.

 

Thank you for correction. I remember reading the fire started from the bus being charged, but missed the bit where it said there's only 2 electrified hybrid bus, others are diesel. I thought it was all 6 electric buses, sorry for that. (orig post edited) 

 

I think I read previously it was due to maintenance error. But I can't find the article I read back then. 

Oops EV cars catching fire due to faulty battery packs, what, not happening I hear many of you shouting at me, oh dear, well then, what about the Jaguar i-Pace, The Hyundai Kona and the Chevy Volt, all of which are using batteries made by LG Energy Solutions for which LG have agreed to pay GM and Hyundai $2.5Billion and now Land Rover Jaguar are after some money from them as well.

 

Jaguar I-Pace Battery Class Action Lawsuit: LG Chem Batteries Again? (insideevs.com)

 

Jaguar I-Pace Recalled Due To Potential Battery Fire Risk (insideevs.com)

NHTSA_Safety_Issues.pdf

 

NHTSA_Safety_Issues.pdf

Edit. Update video of the Fremantle Highway, this video makes it clear that it is NOT yet known if EV's started the fire or how many did get caught in the fire, but there does appear to be a bit of a cover-up going on because the ship's owners have not released the manifest for ship's cargo and what was stored on which levels/decks of the ship, all of which will be on record with the owners as the loading had to have been planned for loading purposes to keep the ship stable etc. For the definitive answer, we will have to wait. 

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Oops EV cars catching fire due to faulty battery packs, what, not happening I hear many of you shouting at me, oh dear, well then, what about the Jaguar i-Pace, The Hyundai Kona and the Chevy Volt, all of which are using batteries made by LG Energy Solutions for which LG have agreed to pay GM and Hyundai $2.5Billion and now Land Rover Jaguar are after some money from them as well.

 

Jaguar I-Pace Battery Class Action Lawsuit: LG Chem Batteries Again? (insideevs.com)

 

Jaguar I-Pace Recalled Due To Potential Battery Fire Risk (insideevs.com)

Recall under way, I don't see any problem with manufacturers making a mistake and making an effort to put it right.

 

It happens with all sort of cars, for example Ford recalling due to "engine failure that may cause fire": https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recalls-more-than-125000-suvs-due-fire-risk-nhtsa-2023-06-06/

 

 

On the ship fire, we have to wait, as you rightly concluded. So what's the point you are trying to make by bring it up again and again?

Point was that EV cars have been catching fire and until now this has been suppressed, even Teslas have had their issues but the EV industry have been doing their best to keep under cover because they didn't want the bad publicity.

 

Like all manufacturers, make mistakes from time to time and they nearly all deny that the issues are anything to with them, and they wait until there is a class lawsuit against them and they get caught out and made to put things right. Like VW and diesel gate, then it was discovered that they weren't the only ones cheating, Mercedes and BMW too were caught out I think you find and I doubt that they were the only ones. Manufacturers will try and get away with it if they can.   

 

A while ago Vauxhall Zafires were catching fire and Vauxhall were denying it as well and that is an ICE car, so it proves that all cars can have issues and catch fire. That Ford link you gave referred to Hybrids and PHEVs that were having the fire risks.

Edited 21 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Vauxhall Zafires were catching fire

 

@Graham ButcherSince this section started on EV,s and this thread we have all the media stories on EV fires and putting them out and the difficulty of that. 

 

Maybe the weather makes a difference in the UK and the chargers as to the reduced instances.

 

It would be helpful if while doing your searches you could find the Local News or National News reports on which EV,s are catching fire in the UK.

Surely they are there like the Vauxhall Zafira stories which were reported. like the BMW,s that were used as Police Cars and that Police Forces have stopped using.  Has BBC Watchdog not done anything on reported EV vehicle faults causing them to burn?

 

 

 

 

 

Not UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

IIRC they do11kW single phase charging, which is a whole lot of current.

 

 

 

 

I forget to turn off EV,s before getting out and do not realise until i can not lock the car.

That has been with different cars.

With the Corsa i once went back to it after having just nipped into my Mums to get something and got delayed and forgot i had put it just in P and not turned off the car and the key was not out of distance.

When i went out and went to move it shut down as it said drive and brake error and i switched off, left it 10 minutes and all was well.

 

The other day i tried remotely switching on the Pre-Heating in the MINI and then went out to see if it had started heating the interior and it had, 

and then i could not figure how to turn it off other than starting the car.

Then i tried again starting remotely and stopping remotely and i have not figured that out yet as it did not just do it from the phone. 

 

Easy enough to start pre heating in error from a phone maybe for Mericans. 

 

 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Point was that EV cars have been catching fire and until now this has been suppressed, even Teslas have had their issues but the EV industry have been doing their best to keep under cover because they didn't want the bad publicity.

I think you'll find EV fires are reported more in media than ICE car fires. One is a regular occurrence so rarely make the news, the other is a new technology and click-baity. Remember the ratio of car fires between EV and ICE cars, and then think back on the amount of car fires get reported. Your theory of EV fires being covered up is.........

 

I mean, I didn't know about the BMW N57 engine fires until a few post ago. Whereas I've heard a lot about Tesla fires in mainstream media. 

There's even a website dedicated to recording Tesla fires: https://www.tesla-fire.com/

 

 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That Ford link you gave referred to Hybrids and PHEVs that were having the fire risks.

 The root cause is within the ICE though, nothing to do with whether it is a hybrid or not. Please refer to this quote from the article: 

Quote

Ford said isolated engine manufacturing issues can cause the engine to fail prematurely and in that event engine oil or fuel vapor may be released, increasing the risk of fire and injury.

 

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherSince this section started on EV,s and this thread we have all the media stories on EV fires and putting them out and the difficulty of that. 

 

Maybe the weather makes a difference in the UK and the chargers as to the reduced instances.

 

It would be helpful if while doing your searches you could find the Local News or National News reports on which EV,s are catching fire in the UK.

Surely they are there like the Vauxhall Zafira stories which were reported. like the BMW,s that were used as Police Cars and that Police Forces have stopped using.  Has BBC Watchdog not done anything on reported EV vehicle faults causing them to burn?

To be honest, I really don't know the answer to that question. I only posted about them to give a more rounded picture about EVs. I just got a bit sick of seeing people denying the real facts about the risks, and those same people also pretending statistics don't apply. They also leap on any snippets of info hinting at no EVs were even involved in any of the recent ship fires. Truth is there has been a significant increase of these events over the same period that EVs have been shipped across the globe. We have been shipping cars for decades with few incidents, so logic suggests somethings changed, has petrol suddenly become more voliatile, nope. We need to apply critical thinking to what could be the cays. These ships been at sea for a long time when fires broke out. ICE cars cool down rapidly so any fire caused by leaking fluids contacting heat would have started before leaving the port? 

You are posting the horror stories.

Please find the actual horror stories of UK EV,s going on fire while parked or the ones on fire because of accidents and maybe those deaths or horrific injuries from the Electrified car fires. 

 

2 Briskoda members have posted about their Skoda,s going on fire when parked.

No Briskoda members have posted about their EV,s going on fire, but then there are so few members that seem to have EV,s, or PHEV,s or Mild Hybrids.

Maybe in a few years we will here of more sad incidents. 

 

That is not a high statistic / percentage considering how many Briskoda members have a Skoda and how many years the forum has been going.

Even if it is 3 vehicles or a few more that never were posted about onthe forum.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/511114-my-skoda-octavia-mk3-got-caught-on-fire

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457559-octavia-2014-diesel-vrs-thermal-incident

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/451182-never-thought-this-would-be-the-last-drive

 

 

Edited 22 August, 20232 yr by toot

2 hours ago, toot said:

@Graham ButcherSince this section started on EV,s and this thread we have all the media stories on EV fires and putting them out and the difficulty of that. 

 

Maybe the weather makes a difference in the UK and the chargers as to the reduced instances.

 

It would be helpful if while doing your searches you could find the Local News or National News reports on which EV,s are catching fire in the UK.

Surely they are there like the Vauxhall Zafira stories which were reported. like the BMW,s that were used as Police Cars and that Police Forces have stopped using.  Has BBC Watchdog not done anything on reported EV vehicle faults causing them to burn?

 

 

 

 

 

Not UK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is part of the problem, manufacturers covering up the problem, they will always push the envelope on any bad news to see what they can get away with, and will generally only respond in a positive fashion when they are forced to by massive legal actions.