8 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Official Vehicles might well be EV,s and not just when at Photo Ops about Green Energy or when there was the likes of COP26 .

 

But Armoured Cars are not really going to be EV,s,  but might well be PHEV,s for some extra oomph. 

Diplomatic and Royal Protection details are using BEV,s and high powered ones. 

 

Interesting to see that white undercover police car at the start of the 1st video actually came from Essex, more likely drafted up there specially for the conference?

 

Also not surprised to the King using a BEV as he has always had green credentials in almost everything he touches, be it the way that gardens to his cars.

 

Also noted that the support vehicles were ICE and so are the government official cars, due no doubt to the fact that figures they carry are normally so controversial that certain people / countries etc might want to a pot shot at them so they have to be armoured vehicles for them to ensure their safety when going about their business.

 

So here's a thought, maybe it would have been wiser for these political leaders to have waited before mandating the demise of new ICE vehicles until it was possible that their own vehicles that they use for official duties could also be BEV and capable of the same things as their current official cars are currently able to do?

It might of been drafted up, or just First Registered there, like the Scottish Registered Emergency vehicles in England. 

There  all sorts of registrations in Scotland on vehicles registered just anyplace.

 

Often for big Events you see them arriving New on Transporters or sitting at various Dealerships waiting to be moved on.

Marked and unmarked.  Lots of Unmarked Polestars. 

Kia & Hyundai,s were common, EV,s and with Government departments Hybrids. 

 

 

Edited 5 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

FOI from 2021. 

 

 

Edited 5 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, moley said:

Which part did you think was absolute tosh?

We know it's a problem to 'home charge' your EV if you don't have a driveway.

If you can home charge, then 100 miles can be as low as £2 to drive 100 miles in my diesel Superb is probably under £13, so the £14 he quoted is not far off of the mark. I think he over costed the 100 miles on public charging at £28, it is evidently more likely to be £18, which is still more expensive than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

I don't know how EV used values are these days, so he might be wrong on that count.

 

Parts, most if not all.

 

Not only Vauxhall/Stellantis are selling EVs at the same price as the ICE but the price of the MG4 at less £20k is a stunningly low price. Not my boat floater but as a popular model ad buyers prove it is a lot of car for the money.

 

Buying kWhs of electricity for a those who have to buy from public chargers needs a bit more research that those who buy diesel or petrol ie don't buy on motorways as one needs to look at ones usage and local geography of public chargers. By choosing the optimum network discount subscription one could be getting kWh as low as 29p per kWh, sadly with someone like TESLA who I would personally pay Gridserve twice the price than buy from TESLA but there are other networks where one could pay a small monthly subscription and get kWh at half the headline prices of 79 to 85p per kilowatt hour. Like millions of other Octopus customers I do and they can get an Octopus Electroverse card and get discount and postpone cost in to one's monthly energy bill.

 

EVs are cheaper to run for VED and servicing in all cases i have experienced and read of.  Depreciation is a non issue for most as you pay your PCP and if quite heavily depreciated, EVs are just getting much cheaper as the key component costs ie batteries are falling like a stone. I have been whispered that I will be offered my Zoe at well below the balloon payment cost, thousands less, or I will do a deal for the new Renault 5, quite likely to be car of the 2025 as was the Scenic in 2024, not EV of the Year, European Car of the Year, period.

 

As I said guff from start to finish spouting inaccurate clap trap which only the uneducated in the matter will suck up.

 

^^^ Lots of tosh right there.

 

Lots of chargers with prices of 75-89 pence a kWh are nothing to do with MOTORWAYS, there are no Motorways North of Perth in the UK, plenty high cost chargers in Cities or Towns. 

There are people that BUY used cars, not PCP or on the Never Never, but they might buy to keep so the high depreciation is very very welcome. 

 

Yes there are subscriptions, offers, discounts if those are for Chargers you are going to be using and in the area where you live or travel in. 

53 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Not only Vauxhall/Stellantis are selling EVs at the same price as the ICE

The Vauxhall/Stellantis PCP offering is cleverly pitched as being the same cost for ICE or EV but there is a catch - the price quoted is 4 yers for an ICE but 5 years for an EV so in reality it's 25% more expensive!

36 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Not only Vauxhall/Stellantis are selling EVs at the same price as the ICE but the price of the MG4 at less £20k is a stunningly low price. Not my boat floater but as a popular model ad buyers prove it is a lot of car for the money.

 

According to the MG website the cheapest MG4 is the SE version from £26,995. On auto trader you can pick up a 74 plate for £19,905.

From April I believe VED will be the same for EV's as it for ICE vehicles.

20 minutes ago, moley said:

 

According to the MG website the cheapest MG4 is the SE version from £26,995. On auto trader you can pick up a 74 plate for £19,905.

From April I believe VED will be the same for EV's as it for ICE vehicles.

 

EV owners will pay the new standard rate when they renew but many of us intend to "retax" our EVs in March so we will start paying VED in 2026. So yes April 1st but 2026, or maybe March 2026, not quite sure how the system will work.

 

Or it might get adjusted of course in a budget or statutory instrument I suppose.

 

 

42 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

The Vauxhall/Stellantis PCP offering is cleverly pitched as being the same cost for ICE or EV but there is a catch - the price quoted is 4 yers for an ICE but 5 years for an EV so in reality it's 25% more expensive!

 

Some amazingly cheap figures being quoted. The YouTubers were saying £23k for either. You can always take out the deal and then pay it off with all the money on fuel one has not spent of course. What APR is that?

 

Renaults 4.9% APR is outstanding.

 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

^^^ Lots of tosh right there.

 

Lots of chargers with prices of 75-89 pence a kWh are nothing to do with MOTORWAYS, there are no Motorways North of Perth in the UK, plenty high cost chargers in Cities or Towns. 

There are people that BUY used cars, not PCP or on the Never Never, but they might buy to keep so the high depreciation is very very welcome. 

 

Yes there are subscriptions, offers, discounts if those are for Chargers you are going to be using and in the area where you live or travel in. 

 

Did i say motorway for EV ? I am simply saying that ICE drivers mostly know to not buy fuel on motorways.  Those of us who charge at home rarely charge at public chargers ad the headline price is about ten times higher. I have only public charger six times in 4 years, all times only about 5 to 7 kwh ie free as octopus credit or with Octopus discount so about £3 to £4.50.

If I was going to charge regularly public i would join one of the discount schemes in addition to the Octopus Electroverse one. I like Ionity, it would definitely not be TESLA as I would be making sure not a red cent went to Mr Musky.

 

You can know join the Shell Recharge subscription through Octopus, 23% of their high rates, would be worth it if a regular public charge i suppose.

 

Lots of options to save and with EVs it is easy to get the exact number of kWh one needs.

 

Unreal how some can not see the issue.

Those that can not charge at home is the point of things.    The Social Divide affecting the take up of EV,s as well as Private Motorists compared to Commercial, Fleet, paid to drive as part of the job and not paying for fuel or electric. 

18 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Unreal how some can not see the issue.

Those that can not charge at home is the point of things.    The Social Divide affecting the take up of EV,s as well as Private Motorists compared to Commercial, Fleet, paid to drive as part of the job and not paying for fuel or electric. 

 

I am a big supporter of lowering the VAT on public chargers from 20% to 5% or even VAT free which would slice loads of the public charging price. Sunak would not do it or even address the question in parliament.

Of course the lowering VAT on public charging would mean a loss of revenue that would need to be met elsewhere. I have already said that I would be happy to see VAT on hone fuel go up, particularly on gas usage but probably not the best time for that in a cold snap and before state pesioner get their hike in pension but there are probably several good candidates for hikes but uk government probably does not want to do anything to drive up inflation hence they were soft on fuel prices not increasing them by inflation or removing the covid 5p. Some areas, ie the Highlands, Exmoor get a further 5p off their tax on fuel of course.

 

Some people like new houses Some like old ones. Charge Scotland, supported by the SNP and Barnet funding do not seem to have done a good job from what I have read of you posts ?

 

14 hours ago, EnterName said:

CO2 generators are used to make plants grow better.

If you raise CO2 levels, you literally get a greener planet.

Let's read the Wikipedia screenshot you've posted

"in greenhouse or other enclosed area".

 

Are you actually suggesting CO2 is good for Earth atmosphere by transplanting CO2 generator usage over globally?

Or, based on your previous posts, you are saying CO2 generator should be banned and cars should be used instead for those niche use-cases?

 

This is classic extrapolation and smoke + mirrors by misinformation spreader.

 

14 hours ago, EnterName said:

Enough with the "I'm not telling people what to do. 😇" performances.

Yes you are, right there! 🎯

 

Try posting "It's difficult to get Rohypnol and even more difficult to get women to consume a drinks spiked with Rohypnol." and then seeing who'll trust you to buy a round of drinks.

No use protesting "Where have I told anyone I'd spike their drink?" after posting something like that.

Same with EVs, and now meat it seems.

Screenshot your own post is like repeating yourself. Doesn't answer the question when the question is clearly asking about the very same post.

 

Do you have sufficient understanding of English language?

It seems you are basically saying I am not to be trusted when I go around everyone's home and buy their grocery for them?

Rest assured, I have no plan to buy your grocery for you.

 

In case there's any doubt with the English language for you. Let me repeat: There is absolutely no implication that I am telling people to change their lives.

Here's an explainer for you. Keyword is "acknowledge".

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Did i say motorway for EV ? I am simply saying that ICE drivers mostly know to not buy fuel on motorways.  Those of us who charge at home rarely charge at public chargers ad the headline price is about ten times higher. I have only public charger six times in 4 years, all times only about 5 to 7 kwh ie free as octopus credit or with Octopus discount so about £3 to £4.50.

If I was going to charge regularly public i would join one of the discount schemes in addition to the Octopus Electroverse one. I like Ionity, it would definitely not be TESLA as I would be making sure not a red cent went to Mr Musky.

 

You can know join the Shell Recharge subscription through Octopus, 23% of their high rates, would be worth it if a regular public charge i suppose.

 

Lots of options to save and with EVs it is easy to get the exact number of kWh one needs.

 

With all those schemes, roughly how much per kWh does the user actually pay?

We know EV vs ICE running cost break even cost is at around 50 p/kWh.

 

 

Yes, there is a social divide for those who can regularly get cheap electricity and those who cannot, no point skirting around it. Without finding schemes, EV public charging will be more expensive to fuel (charge).

 

But is it actually as big problem as people make out if the per mile fuel cost is roughly equal?

As lol pointed out, no one buys their daily fuel at motorway service area from their own pockets, so is it fair to compare en-route DC rapid charging cost against supermarket fuel?

 

 

 

There's also free events. Christmas day Gridserve was free. I just had 6.9 kWh recharged for free at Jolt this afternoon. Left with 58%, got home with 59% after 24 miles drive to pick up a new toy.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Unreal how some can not see the issue.

Those that can not charge at home is the point of things.    The Social Divide affecting the take up of EV,s as well as Private Motorists compared to Commercial, Fleet, paid to drive as part of the job and not paying for fuel or electric. 

 

Give it up George...   There's no point arguing with him...   As you said earlier he's blind to the point of the discussion taking place.  It often happens with 'evangelists' of any sort...   They just can't see past the end of Thier own nose.

BYD (YANGWANG) U9 party trick. Avoid potholes etc, jump over it....

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

BYD (YANGWANG) U9 party trick. Avoid potholes etc, jump over it....

 

 

 

Absolute bargain at £180,000.🤔

5 minutes ago, moley said:

Absolute bargain at £180,000.🤔

 

Not cheap but it is a hypercar with 1300 hp, 0-60 in 2 seconds and has done the Nürburgring in 7m19s I gather.  European hypercars would be much more than this.

Only available in China but perhaps Bristol Street Motors might have one along with the other BYDs they sell sometime.  

Edited 6 January, 20251 yr by lol-lol

20 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Are you actually suggesting CO2 is good for Earth atmosphere by transplanting CO2 generator usage over globally?

LOL No.

 

20 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Or, based on your previous posts, you are saying CO2 generator should be banned and cars should be used instead for those niche use-cases?

Just to remind you which side of the argument we're on, I have no problem with CO2. You're on the side of the argument that wants to get the UK to "net zero" CO2.

My point is, if CO2 really was the dangerous gas it is made out to be, and bear in mind the UK is spending billions on getting to your "net zero" CO2 goal, then banning CO2 generators would seem to be an easy step forward in the "net zero" direction.

 

20 hours ago, wyx087 said:

This is classic extrapolation and smoke + mirrors by misinformation spreader.

No, it's classic @EnterName pointing out the bleeding obvious to an oblivious ideologue. 🤷‍♂️

 

20 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Screenshot your own post is like repeating yourself. Doesn't answer the question when the question is clearly asking about the very same post.

 

Do you have sufficient understanding of English language?

It seems you are basically saying I am not to be trusted when I go around everyone's home and buy their grocery for them?

Rest assured, I have no plan to buy your grocery for you.

 

In case there's any doubt with the English language for you. Let me repeat: There is absolutely no implication that I am telling people to change their lives.

Here's an explainer for you. Keyword is "acknowledge".

The trouble with trying to gaslight me on here, is that by me quoting both the question and answer, I make it very tricky for slippery people to be disingenuous.

You literally complain it's "difficult to make people change", and then try and pretend you're not interested in making people change their behaviours.

You simply can't complain about how hard it is to try and make people change, then shortly after deny you have any desire to make people change. 😄

Well you can, but I'm going to point it out. 😎

My analogy highlights my point that for you, the cat is out of the bag on your urge to get people to change their behaviour to suit your agenda.

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

Just to remind you which side of the argument we're on, I have no problem with CO2. You're on the side of the argument that wants to get the UK to "net zero" CO2.

My point is, if CO2 really was the dangerous gas it is made out to be, and bear in mind the UK is spending billions on getting to your "net zero" CO2 goal, then banning CO2 generators would seem to be an easy step forward in the "net zero" direction.

Yes, I am on the side that wants to get to "net zero".  Excess CO2 is very bad. That excess comes from unnecessarily burning stuff that are normally buried underground.

 

What you keep failing to acknowledge here is that CO2 in enclosed environment is very different to CO2 in global atmosphere. Actually, my apologies, you responded with "LOL no" I guess you have some basic understanding but decide it is counterproductive to the misinformation you want to spread.

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

The trouble with trying to gaslight me on here, is that by me quoting both the question and answer, I make it very tricky for slippery people to be disingenuous.

You literally complain it's "difficult to make people change", and then try and pretend you're not interested in making people change their behaviours.

You simply can't complain about how hard it is to try and make people change, then shortly after deny you have any desire to make people change. 😄

The trouble with trying to gaslight people is that you shouldn't do it yourself.

 

Why do you continuously feel the need to insert the narrative that I am remotely interested in making people change their behaviours?

Yet you haven't provided evidence to back up your accusation other than by ramming words into my mouth.

^^^ It is what it is. 

 There are no captains of industry here are there or CEO,s of Multi Nationals, Leaders of countries that are going to be changing anything are there?

.................

 

Not sure if he is just not happy that he is not more successful than he is, or better off than he is because he is not in the selling EV business. 

Just a car salesperson & now a vlogger with all the scores on the doors.

 

Or maybe just too honest to sell vehicles that will not suit the buyers who is too stupid to know what they want and that they will lose money on.

Even if they get them cheap can charge cheaply and are keeping them so depreciation does not affect them. 

*& Will not be buying another car from him because he will be  retired car trader before they want another.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Dr. Andy Palmer.

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

I've watched s few of these Carwow reviews on EV's, where they drive them until the battery goes flat. Apart from the putting 2 people in the boot to see how big it is the reviews are quite useful. The figures at the end of the review is quite interesting. The polestar achieved 90% of the claimed range while the other cars were around 78 - 81%. The cost of fuel (diesel) for the crew  / filming car (skoda Kodiaq) for the total return trip was £92. The cost of charging the Polestar was also £92, but the first charge was on 'home' charging, if the car had been charged on fast chargers the cost would have been £140. 

 

^^^ Except a FAST charger is 7 or 11 kW AC.  A Rapid 50 kW DC and we are at Ultra Rapid over 50 kW DC charging, sort of 100-150 and up to 350 kW.

It was them that are Motoring Journalists that used those terms for years. 

 

& 100 kWh of charging say with a Tesla Super Charger /Ultra Rapid @ 60 pence a kWh is £60.00 & at worst maybe 350 miles.  so £120 for 700 miles.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

^^^ Except a FAST charger is 7 or 11 kW AC.  A Rapid 50 kW DC and we are at Ultra Rapid over 50 kW DC charging, sort of 100-150 and up to 350 kW.

It was them that are Motoring Journalists that used those terms for years. 

 

& 100 kWh of charging say with a Tesla Super Charger /Ultra Rapid @ 60 pence a kWh is £60.00 & at worst maybe 350 miles.  so £120 for 700 miles.

Then if you add in the lost 53p a litre fuel duty which the Government is missing out on, but they will soon be finding ways of clawing that lost revenue back, suddenly unless you can be certain to do most of your charging at home (on cheap rates), then suddenly it becomes way more expensive to run.