Fast public chargers, ie 7 kw ones, are normally 49p per kwh are they not and not 79p per kwh, often even cheaper than that.

 

  

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Then if you add in the lost 53p a litre fuel duty which the Government is missing out on, but they will soon be finding ways of clawing that lost revenue back, suddenly unless you can be certain to do most of your charging at home (on cheap rates), then suddenly it becomes way more expensive to run.

Valid point, if taxation is added to EV charging only.

 

How sure are you that some sort of taxation is applied across all cars? Electricity maintain a small tax reduction in order to achieve net zero.

 

  

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

& 100 kWh of charging say with a Tesla Super Charger /Ultra Rapid @ 60 pence a kWh is £60.00 & at worst maybe 350 miles.  so £120 for 700 miles.

Don't forget Tesla with membership or Tesla vehicle are around 40p/kWh. Lower during off peak and a bit more during peak time.

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by wyx087

@Graham Butcher

If really was that much Lost Revenue.    

They are taxing the Oil & Gas providers on UK waters, and as it is the Refining in the UK is going. The Fuel security is not secure. 

 

It might not be 50 pence or more in every £1.00 of fuel but it is 20% VAT on what will be a lot of Electricity that is required seeing as EV,s are not efficiently using the electricity. 

 

It is way more expensive to charge EV,s but that is not a concern of Company Vehicles users or operators, they get the VAT back be it liquid fuel or electricity. 

1 hour ago, moley said:

I've watched s few of these Carwow reviews on EV's, where they drive them until the battery goes flat. Apart from the putting 2 people in the boot to see how big it is the reviews are quite useful. The figures at the end of the review is quite interesting. The polestar achieved 90% of the claimed range while the other cars were around 78 - 81%. The cost of fuel (diesel) for the crew  / filming car (skoda Kodiaq) for the total return trip was £92. The cost of charging the Polestar was also £92, but the first charge was on 'home' charging, if the car had been charged on fast chargers the cost would have been £140. 

 

 

Think I saw this or something similar a few days ago and did they not charge at home on a 26p a kilowatt hour ?

 

Most EV drivers charge at the night time rate of a third of the cost ie 8.5 per kWh or less ie a miles per pence of 2 ppm not 6 ppm plus if one day time charges.

 

I tend not to drive at 70 but more like 65 mph and get much better range.

 

Polestars are good motorway cars but most current EVs prefer urban and non motorway routes, polestars and model 3 and a few other exceptions ie ID7.  Lots of motorway munching EVs on the way this 2025.

 

Maybe a mixed driving test would be worth doing. EVe really shine against ICE cars in urban environments. Trying to think of an ICE car with a heat pump, any ?

 

@lol-lolnow heres a thing, if you are driving a black box insurance type scheme, they actually prefer you to drive on motorways whenever possible and they actually reward the drivers with so many free miles per month for doing so.

^^^ That would hardly be relevant to the top 1/4 or more of the UK mainland where there are no Motorways then. 

Penalising Northerners and Islanders and people that are young and not wanting to travel between cities, newer drivers who never even had to drive on a Motorway before getting a driving licence. 

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

14 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

^^^ That would hardly be relevant to the top 1/4 or more of the UK mainland where there are no Motorways then. 

Penalising Northerners and Islanders and people that are young and not wanting to travel between cities, newer drivers who never even had to drive on a Motorway before getting a driving licence. 

Yep, but it still remains that they believe that motorways are the safest of roads to drive on, hence the free miles. I have that system on my car in order to keep the insurance relatively affordable and the only motorways for me are the M25 and M11, neither of which are normally of any use to me at all. 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

I have read that, Ai generated when asking on Google. 

 

It should be a Legal Requirement on Old Folks vehicles, and young and everyones. 

That can happen as built in on all New Type Approved cars very easily.     Happy days.   Automatic Speeding Fines and restrict those with eyesight problems from driving in the dark.

 

Charge per mile as well according to roads used and peak or off peak times. 

34 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lolnow heres a thing, if you are driving a black box insurance type scheme, they actually prefer you to drive on motorways whenever possible and they actually reward the drivers with so many free miles per month for doing so.

 

Statistically safer.

 

One of my kids had a black box, I will resist them and look upon them as a bit intrusive.  As I was saying on another thread many drivers, EVs and ICE, claim the mileage for driving the slightly quicker route but actually drive the shorter more economic route.  Better economy and the next service costs are postponed.  Black boxes and pay per mile might put paid to these claims tactics.  HMRC itself is unclear, as far as I have seen, as to what route/mileage one entitled to claim. Stop every two hours, add a mile or two for the off and on slip roads, add 5% as my odometer overreads, which I use rather than Google maps.  Lots of reasons to choice different routes.  Black boxes usage usually cancelled after a couple of years as NCD kicks in lower premiums.  Less of an issue here is leafy Worcestershire where insurance premium are much lower anyways.  massive safety systems on new cars seem to be lowering premiums.  My scenic will not even run over a leaf (not a Nissan) , going forwards or backwards without it doing a emergency stop, hope nobody is following me too closely.

   

Not very good miming, actual singer does not look like this...

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by lol-lol

47 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Statistically safer.

 

One of my kids had a black box, I will resist them and look upon them as a bit intrusive.  As I was saying on another thread many drivers, EVs and ICE, claim the mileage for driving the slightly quicker route but actually drive the shorter more economic route.  Better economy and the next service costs are postponed.  Black boxes and pay per mile might put paid to these claims tactics.  HMRC itself is unclear, as far as I have seen, as to what route/mileage one entitled to claim. Stop every two hours, add a mile or two for the off and on slip roads, add 5% as my odometer overreads, which I use rather than Google maps.  Lots of reasons to choice different routes.  Black boxes usage usually cancelled after a couple of years as NCD kicks in lower premiums.  Less of an issue here is leafy Worcestershire where insurance premium are much lower anyways.  massive safety systems on new cars seem to be lowering premiums.  My scenic will not even run over a leaf (not a Nissan) , going forwards or backwards without it doing a emergency stop, hope nobody is following me too closely.

   

Not very good miming, actual singer does not look like this...

 

Black boxes are also a tracking device that is very useful in the event that your car gets stolen. As to the company expense claims you speak about, then the information that box stores of the actual routes taken etc are nothing to do with the company or HMRC, it is your car and that data is also yours, the company will not be able to access the info.

41 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 add 5% as my odometer overreads, which I use rather than Google maps. 

Have you put different size tyres on the car to cause the odometer to overread by 5%?. Speedometers are usually set to overread by 5%, but odometers are usually pretty accurate. If I put a route in the sat nav and it says 245 miles to the destination, it's probably within a mile or two on arrival. When your odometer shows 10,500 miles you've only actually travelled 10,000 miles. This would skew the figures for mpg or miles per kwh, would it not?

29 minutes ago, moley said:

Have you put different size tyres on the car to cause the odometer to overread by 5%?. Speedometers are usually set to overread by 5%, but odometers are usually pretty accurate. If I put a route in the sat nav and it says 245 miles to the destination, it's probably within a mile or two on arrival. When your odometer shows 10,500 miles you've only actually travelled 10,000 miles. This would skew the figures for mpg or miles per kwh, would it not?

 

I presume so. Renault speedo tend to overread by about 4% consistently in my experience by the odometer under read oddly, between 2 and 3 % it seems, indeed odd.

Only thing with the tyres is that on my Scenic and Zoe i have the narrower and smaller rims ie 19s on the Scenic and 16s on the Zoe. Higher profile and each car I have the highest permissable pressures ie for fully loaded setup. Both these factors could add a couple percent to the radius from wheel centre to contact with the road, also they both have full tread at the moment.

 

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

^^^ That would hardly be relevant to the top 1/4 or more of the UK mainland where there are no Motorways then. 

Penalising Northerners and Islanders and people that are young and not wanting to travel between cities, newer drivers who never even had to drive on a Motorway before getting a driving licence. 

 

 

 

A good and well-balanced video overall with one exception, EV drivers are far worse at vilifying diesels than the other way round. I have always said that there are valid reasons and scenarios that suit certain types of power trains and that they should at this stage of the game until they can get all the problems with EVs resolved, then no government should be mandating them. Until then, they should be upto personal preference and everyone should be perfectly free to make their own minds up about which type of car and power train is the right one for them. And of course all the time diesels are getting cleaner all the time and CO2 levels dropping all the time from all ICE vehicles.

 

Currently it makes more sense to reign in on the large powered ICE cars that only do at best 30 mpg, many are measured in the area of 10mpg so for trip of around 60 miles on say a motorway, those cars are producing at least 5 to 6 times pollutants than my car does, and God knows there are many more cars on the road that produce way more harmful emissions. That alone would make a far greater impact on the air quality than all the EV's currently in use today as most of those have been replaced the bigger cars, they have replaced more of the smaller family type cars.

 

In that respect @lol-lol kind of proves the point as he tends to sit around the 65mph mark on motorways, as I do, so why do we need to make the cars capable of 150 to just over 200mph, of which you see many in use on motorways?

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

'Perception' 

 

I think he is talking guff about Dundee and the LEZ as he sits at the Forfar Road / Kingsway traffic lights and not at the city centre. 

Aberdeen and Dundee City Centres being quite different. 

 

I never understand why drivers carry on to Dundee to then head towards Perth and cross the Tay when they could have turned off at Forfar and headed cross country.

Especially in an EV which does it using less electricity and does not mean being in the snarled up traffic in Dundee. 

Same be it going to Edinburgh, Perth or to Glasgow. 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

A good and well-balanced video overall with one exception, EV drivers are far worse at vilifying diesels than the other way round. I have always said that there are valid reasons and scenarios that suit certain types of power trains and that they should at this stage of the game until they can get all the problems with EVs resolved, then no government should be mandating them. Until then, they should be upto personal preference and everyone should be perfectly free to make their own minds up about which type of car and power train is the right one for them. And of course all the time diesels are getting cleaner all the time and CO2 levels dropping all the time from all ICE vehicles.

Currently it makes more sense to reign in on the large powered ICE cars that only do at best 30 mpg, many are measured in the area of 10mpg so for trip of around 60 miles on say a motorway, those cars are producing at least 5 to 6 times pollutants than my car does, and God knows there are many more cars on the road that produce way more harmful emissions. That alone would make a far greater impact on the air quality than all the EV's currently in use today as most of those have been replaced the bigger cars, they have replaced more of the smaller family type cars.

In that respect @lol-lol kind of proves the point as he tends to sit around the 65mph mark on motorways, as I do, so why do we need to make the cars capable of 150 to just over 200mph, of which you see many in use on motorways?

 

It comes down to pollution of the air we breath.  It has been shown time and time again that the lowish figures, and I dont call the 80 ugm/Km particularly low when petrol car and held to a higher standard ie 60 ugm./km but both actually fail massively in the real world rather than the lab these incorrect emission results were achieved.

 

When the Catalytic convertor is not warm enough, and it may not get up to temperature for much of the journey undertaken in cool weather the pollution will be many times the published emission levels.  Governments concluded around the world, even with Adblue etc , Diesel are not clean enough for urban areas.  OK in the countryside or at sea until they   simply become a cost ineffective choice and BEV or petrol variants are the choice, maybe hydrogen but that seems to be going down hill with diesel at the moment.

  

It is ridiculous if Dundee City Council have not made an allowance for WAV Diesel Taxis.   Passengers that are Blue Badge Holders or have Taxi / Bus / Train passes as Disabled should be able to have the exemption used by the Driver by texting a code.

http://tiktok.com/@stvnews/video/7420368493553421600

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

As I was saying on another thread many drivers, EVs and ICE, claim the mileage for driving the slightly quicker route but actually drive the shorter more economic route.  Better economy and the next service costs are postponed.  Black boxes and pay per mile might put paid to these claims tactics.  HMRC itself is unclear, as far as I have seen, as to what route/mileage one entitled to claim. Stop every two hours, add a mile or two for the off and on slip roads, add 5% as my odometer overreads, which I use rather than Google maps.  Lots of reasons to choice different routes. 

 

I guess by 'many drivers' you mean yourself???

 

Most of us don't commit fraud and claim for the mileage of the route we actually take and the mileage we do, without adding in 'extras'...

6 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I guess by 'many drivers' you mean yourself???

 

Most of us don't commit fraud and claim for the mileage of the route we actually take and the mileage we do, without adding in 'extras'...

 

Quite common practice I hear talking to quite a few people. 

 

As someone who has done hundreds of audits on behalf of HMRC, done test eating, where we go to restaurants, pay in cash, record the customers during the time we are there and then "knock2 the restaurant  a day or two later, confront the operator about there under declarations, same for test betting when on course betting duty was a think, seized vehicles for boot legging excise goods in to the UK rasing well in excess of £10M in under-decs for UK Exchequer.  I think there is an expectation that claimants and declarants of across all sorts of business claiming will do some rounding but it is the blatant massive under declaring, or not declaring at all which is the big problem.

 

Indian I went to earlier this week asked for cash only.  Almost definitely not declaring that £65 of meals for VAT.  Effort for tax avoidance has to focused on the major **** takers rather than the minor rounder uppers.  It would help if things like the mileage rate was actually a proper rate. Us in HMRC use to refuse to use our cars for customs duties when the mileage hit 10k stating we would only use official vehicles or public transport.  Sadly the UK is fast becoming a third world country. 

 

We have a Labour Government now and a Prime Minister who knows about a Beer and a carry out while having a break on a busy day where others are knocking their pan in. . 

 

Times must be changing, 

 Perks are for politicians not plebs.   A fair pay for the few and taxation benefiting the best off. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

10 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

We have a Labour Government now and a Prime Minister who knows about a Beer and a carry out while having a break on a busy day where others are knocking their pan in. . 

 

Times must be changing, 

 Perks are for politicians not plebs.   A fair pay for the few and taxation benefiting the best off. 

 

And we hear how business would rather cut hour or load more work on those that are left and complain about paying staff £12 an hour whilst they pay themselves 5 or 10 times that and do less than their employees.

 

Paying less tax on their dividends than their employees do in PAYE and NI.

 

Many politians are paid a fraction in their public service that they could get in private industry. Don't think they do it for the salary or Perks at the time but it oft seems to lead in to jobs that pay several times as much, particularly for ex Treasury postings.

 

 

^^ They not only get their thanks in heaven, they get directorship, consultancy work, lobbying etc & jobs for family members. Sometimes even while still a MP or MP and Minister. 

They do the merry go around and some get the Brucie Bonus and then get back into the Commons, or go to The House of Lords, the best gravy train of all. 

 

I listen to Gordon Brown the other night.  I always thought the Son of the Manse a snouter.  He was.

Now the involvement with Food Banks and Everything Banks with the help of Amazon & others he has was quite touching.

He does seem to really now feel for the poorest of children.  Obviously him and Blair, Alistair Darling, Peter Mandelson and the rest have caused much of the poverty.

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

54 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Sadly the UK is fast becoming a third world country. 

 

 

No wonder if those who are supposed to be 'auditing' are as bad as the rest in terms of false declarations and claims etc.

 

I have no words for the hypocrisy in some of your posts!

15 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

No wonder if those who are supposed to be 'auditing' are as bad as the rest in terms of false declarations and claims etc.

 

I have no words for the hypocrisy in some of your posts!

 

You are assuming that i do those things which I have discovered. Knowing they happen is not the same as doing them.

 

With our HMRC testing eating program we had quite a low budget per head so we would only test restraunt up to a certain cost level so the higher priced ones were probably able to get away with non declaring. Perhaps they had less cash customers but maybe just as many.

District nurses and midwives cannot rin their cars on 45p, or 25p per mile so what do they do ? Give up the service and the job.

I think some nurses do get more than 45p a mile. Let's hope they are declaring it else HMRC can go back 3 or even 6 years to reclaim underpaid tax.

 

When HMRC were paying some 63p per mile over 30 years ago how is it 45p per mile is the rate now ?

Because Britian is broke. As we descending in to third world working as on cannot run the car, even a Skoda, maybe a Dacia on that rate so it is only possible to get close to breaking even with a bit of rounding for many nurses and public servants doing essential work.  I can understand the logic and without the clear guidance of HMRC ie Google maps, Odometer picture, no clear guidance does not help us to know what mileage metrology we should be using ? HMRC will not use any commercial platform, or at least they have not up until now.

 

 

23 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

You are assuming that i do those things which I have discovered. Knowing they happen is not the same as doing them.

 

District nurses and midwives cannot rin their cars on 45p, or 25p per mile so what do they do ? Give up the service and the job.

 

 

I only assume because you have admitted doing so in your posts (both on this thread and elsewhere in these forums)...

 

As for running cars on 45p per mile - it is possible as a quick check reveals my Swift is costing me around 38p per mile at the moment, including fuel, tyres, servicing, insurance, tax and depreciation (the latter based on my original purchase price and current Autotrader values for vehicles of a similar age, mileage and specification).  I haven't included the cost of one pair of wipers and screenwash over the last few years.  Granted getting the above down to 25p per mile would be more difficult!

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by skomaz

15 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I only assume because you have admitted doing so in your posts (both on this thread and elsewhere in these forums)...

 

As for running cars on 45p per mile - it is possible as a quick check reveals my Swift is costing me around 38p per mile at the moment, including fuel, tyres, servicing, insurance, tax and depreciation (the latter based on my original purchase price and current Autotrader values for vehicles of a similar age, mileage and specification).  I haven't included the cost of one pair of wipers and screenwash over the last few years.  Granted getting the above down to 25p per mile would be more difficult!

 

Even done over 70 mph ?

Not an easy task in inaccurately named Swift or a 1.8 MX5 but I expect you have crept over the speed limit on more than one occasion but not reported yourself to the old bill ?

 

According to Fleet website 25p ppm was impossible unless in a Dacia or a few oddball other cars but vast majority it simply is not possible so what can you do except me and my fellow HMRC Officer did but withdraw our cars from the employer usage ?

 

A matter a degree and one the police, customs and other law enforcement agencies apply in practice. The rough 5 or 10% rule applies to many different areas, others are absolute of course, like Self Assessment dates for 31st of January !

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by lol-lol