Nothing like a Sovereign Wealth Fund as with Qatar or Norway for the UK.

No Nationalised Energy Companies (GB Energy will not be one.)   

BP, well not British just like many other Energy Companies, 

 

The National Grid is nothing like a British Grid but Britain will put Billions into have the energy transmitted in the UK and out of it. 

 

It is a Global Market and trading and what is as sure as night and day is the the British Isles will allow any resources it has to leave the 4 countries and cheaper than it buys back.

Edited 9 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Chinese build quality is not beyond question. "China Insider" has thoughts to share on the issue.

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

A question I often ask: if there was no such thing as tax breaks, would fossil fuel industry even exist?

Shut down the fossil fuel industry tomorrow and the answer to your question will be obvious the following day.🤔

ICE technology has stagnated and ICE vehicles only moving forward in term of their performance as the electric hybrid systems enhancement the ice powertrain.

 

EV systems are improving at around 5% per annum in energy density but also falling about 25% in battery cost.

 

No contest.

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

ICE technology has stagnated and ICE vehicles only moving forward in term of their performance as the electric hybrid systems enhancement the ice powertrain.

 

EV systems are improving at around 5% per annum in energy density but also falling about 25% in battery cost.

 

No contest.

 

 

That simply is not true, ICE continues to get better in the same fashion as does EV, just as ICE are not more complicated than EV, despite what many claim, You can strip away all the extra tech on an ICE and they are still drivable, look at all the older and vintage / classic cars, good luck stripping an EV down to its basic parts and still driving it.

 

The fact is the EV shiels will keep sprouting, just how simple and less complicated they are over their ICE counterparts, but in reality, you are just switching the complications from engine and gearbox to batteries, battery management, invertors and chargers etc and thousands of electronic components and the failure of almost any electronic component and the EV is going nowhere.

Edited 9 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

Which ICE only vehicles on sale now or coming out that will mean real world getting improved efficiency & lower emissions ?,

so other than those using mild hybrid technology.

VW have managed some pretty good diesels as far as low fuel use in the past year. 

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

ICE technology has stagnated and ICE vehicles only moving forward in term of their performance as the electric hybrid systems enhancement the ice powertrain.

 

EV systems are improving at around 5% per annum in energy density but also falling about 25% in battery cost.

 

No contest.

 

 

Makes you wonder why EV's aren't flying off of the shelves.🤔

That would be because the price they were and not 1/2 those with a home or even half with vehicles have Driveways or offroad parking & the public charging is expensive. 

They certainly were heading off the boats and out of the factories and going to Fleets and Business users and various agencies and local authorities.

But they are getting deals. 

3 hours ago, moley said:

Shut down the fossil fuel industry tomorrow and the answer to your question will be obvious the following day.🤔

The original "question" was talking about whether EV's will exist in relation to tax.

I pose the same question whether fossil fuel industry will exist in relation to tax/subsidies.

 

It's never about closure of industry overnight. Just like you can't transition a baby from milk to solid food overnight. The world has grown dependent on fossil fuel and EV is a necessary step towards transitioning away.

 

But new drilling permits and new subsidy deals should not exist.

52 minutes ago, moley said:

Makes you wonder why EV's aren't flying off of the shelves.🤔

Could it be because:

As battery'cost \/ manufacturer'profit/\

rather than battery'cost \/ vehicle'cost\/  ?

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Which ICE only vehicles on sale now or coming out that will mean real world getting improved efficiency & lower emissions ?,

so other than those using mild hybrid technology.

VW have managed some pretty good diesels as far as low fuel use in the past year. 

 

 

 

Please quote specific improvements in mpg for a model etc as we can for battery density and cost per kilowatt hour rather than vagaries ?

 

1 hour ago, moley said:

Makes you wonder why EV's aren't flying off of the shelves.🤔

 

But they are ever increasing their percentage of market share as per SMMT data.

For Diesel engines efficiency went down as more and more exhaust mitigations were added.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That simply is not true, ICE continues to get better in the same fashion as does EV, just as ICE are not more complicated than EV, despite what many claim, You can strip away all the extra tech on an ICE and they are still drivable, look at all the older and vintage / classic cars, good luck stripping an EV down to its basic parts and still driving it.

 

The fact is the EV shiels will keep sprouting, just how simple and less complicated they are over their ICE counterparts, but in reality, you are just switching the complications from engine and gearbox to batteries, battery management, invertors and chargers etc and thousands of electronic components and the failure of almost any electronic component and the EV is going nowhere.

 

No reciprocating losses, 90% conversion rate of stored energy to motion, compared to less than 40% efficiency for ICE power unit. Electrical components that need zero maintenance for hundred of thousands of miles of operation compared to ICE that needs many litres of another type of hydrocarbon to the oil it burns as a lubricant plus disposal of numerous filters in that time also.

 

5 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

For Diesel engines efficiency went down as more and more exhaust mitigations were added.

 

And edition cost too.

 

2 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

No reciprocating losses, 90% conversion rate of stored energy to motion, compared to less than 40% efficiency for ICE power unit.

That was not what you were claiming though is it, you said "ICE technology has stagnated and ICE vehicles only moving forward in term of their performance as the electric hybrid systems enhancement the ice powertrain."

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That was not what you were claiming though is it, you said "ICE technology has stagnated and ICE vehicles only moving forward in term of their performance as the electric hybrid systems enhancement the ice powertrain."

 

Evidence of what improvements their are in ICE vehicles, what new tech, sub systems leading to improved fuel consumption ?

 

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Evidence of what improvements their are in ICE vehicles, what new tech, sub systems leading to improved fuel consumption ?

 

 

The majority of the fuel efficiency development was in the 70s -80s due to the fuel crisis, the last thirty years has seen most of research and development being focused on emissions which has been significantly improved.

4 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

The majority of the fuel efficiency development was in the 70s -80s due to the fuel crisis, the last thirty years has seen most of research and development being focused on emissions which has been significantly improved.

 

And that is from the terrible times of 25% of less thermal efficiency. Hate to think just how bad all those two stoke bikes were.  injection, rather than carbs and of course the turbo and then outside the engine having gearboxes with loads of gears and freewheeling facility also.

Diesel engines I worked on were suppose to be the most efficient ie Slow speed marine diesels running at about 120 revs per minute. We were hitting over 40% thermal efficiency and then producing 500 kws of lecky from a boiler unit in the flue, creating superheated steam using in a steam turbine for free power.

 

Still only half the efficiency of battery to electricity we are seeing now and there is new improvements in the pipeline for batteries, invertors, motors eff of several percentage points.

 

In 2023, the United Kingdom became the world’s first major economy to halve its emissions relative to 1990 levels.

 

UK cars on the road 1995

21,394,103   2023    there were 41.2 million licensed vehicles in the UK

29 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Evidence of what improvements their are in ICE vehicles, what new tech, sub systems leading to improved fuel consumption ?

 

 

Variable compression ratio / ultra lean burn / stratified charge / miller cycle / six stroke.  All improvements in ICE technology coming to market or being developed that improve efficiency. 

2 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

And that is from the terrible times of 25% of less thermal efficiency. Hate to think just how bad all those two stoke bikes were.  injection, rather than carbs and of course the turbo and then outside the engine having gearboxes with loads of gears and freewheeling facility also.

Diesel engines I worked on were suppose to be the most efficient ie Slow speed marine diesels running at about 120 revs per minute. We were hitting over 40% thermal efficiency and then producing 500 kws of lecky from a boiler unit in the flue, creating superheated steam using in a steam turbine for free power.

 

Still only half the efficiency of battery to electricity we are seeing now and there is new improvements in the pipeline for batteries, invertors, motors eff of several percentage points.

 

Diesel engines are generally kinder to the environment than petrol engines as they produce less CO2 and less GHG and seeing as these are measured per litre of fuel used/burnt and it is well known fact that you get far greater MPG with diesel so to cover the same distance with the same type of car, the petrol one will consume quite a bit extra fuel, thus the petrol is doing greater harm to the environment and they also produce, just like diesels, particulates PM2.5, so now I don't feel so bad driving around in my diesel car. 

 

Just maybe then hybrids and PHEV are producing just as much or more CO2 and PM2.5 as my so-called filthy diesel powered car, hmm, now there's food for thought and maybe as time goes on even more revelations might break surface, and we learn that electrification might not be the silver bullet after all.

 

As I have said before, it often pays to keep an open mind and also to be sceptical of new technologies that are being adopted and heavily pushed before we really discover everything there is to know about them.

 

Diesel Or Petrol Engines: Which Pollutes More? A Complex Question 

26 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

In 2023, the United Kingdom became the world’s first major economy to halve its emissions relative to 1990 levels.

 

UK cars on the road 1995

21,394,103   2023    there were 41.2 million licensed vehicles in the UK

That reinforces what I was saying the other day about tailpipe emissions dropped and engine efficacy increases over the last 30 years and politicians are telling us the reverse is true and hence the need for LEZ etc everywhere. Does anybody feel we are being gaslit and lead down a specific pathway that is pitched as in our very best interests, but what if that was a big fat lie?  I'm not saying that it is, BUT what if it is???  Perhaps we all need to think outside the box, and outside the box that the powers are keen to put us in??

Edited 9 January, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

27 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Variable compression ratio / ultra lean burn / stratified charge / miller cycle / six stroke.  All improvements in ICE technology coming to market or being developed that improve efficiency. 

 

I was aware of those in the last century, any significant this century ?

 

26 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Diesel engines are generally kinder to the environment than petrol engines as they produce less CO2 and less GHG and seeing as these are measured per litre of fuel used/burnt and it is well known fact that you get far greater MPG with diesel so to cover the same distance with the same type of car, the petrol one will consume quite a bit extra fuel, thus the petrol is doing greater harm to the environment and they also produce, just like diesels, particulates PM2.5, so now I don't feel so bad driving around in my diesel car. 

 

Just maybe then hybrids and PHEV are producing just as much or more CO2 and PM2.5 as my so-called filthy diesel powered car, hmm, now there's food for thought and maybe as time goes on even more revelations might break surface, and we learn that electrification might not be the silver bullet after all.

 

As I have said before, it often pays to keep an open mind and also to be sceptical of new technologies that are being adopted and heavily pushed before we really discover everything there is to know about them.

 

Diesel Or Petrol Engines: Which Pollutes More? A Complex Question 

 

Nox is the bigger issue these days as the local pollution consequences are classified as the big killer.

CO2 is causing the climate change that is expected to kill millions due to flooding.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Diesel engines are generally kinder to the environment than petrol engines as they produce less CO2 and less GHG and seeing as these are measured per litre of fuel used/burnt and it is well known fact that you get far greater MPG with diesel so to cover the same distance with the same type of car, the petrol one will consume quite a bit extra fuel, thus the petrol is doing greater harm to the environment and they also produce, just like diesels, particulates PM2.5, so now I don't feel so bad driving around in my diesel car. 

 

Just maybe then hybrids and PHEV are producing just as much or more CO2 and PM2.5 as my so-called filthy diesel powered car, hmm, now there's food for thought and maybe as time goes on even more revelations might break surface, and we learn that electrification might not be the silver bullet after all.

 

As I have said before, it often pays to keep an open mind and also to be sceptical of new technologies that are being adopted and heavily pushed before we really discover everything there is to know about them.

 

Diesel Or Petrol Engines: Which Pollutes More? A Complex Question 

 

The argument was concluded several years ago and actions to economical transition to electric set in motion in the last decade.

 

Been some guff about tyre particles which I think need full investigating and reporting. Would like to see the ENSO tyres fully launched to further range and lower consumption of all road vehicles.