9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Please re-read, I've talked about that. You've utterly, completely missed my point:

 

 

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Back in the real world and back on topic, to drive change, there's only the carrot or the stick. Unfortunately the stick most affects those who are not well off, this problem is entirely manufactured by the ICE car industry: "buy our latest car for less emissions".

So are you now saying that you didn't mean to say what you wrote above then, which is what I was referring, when I said that EV makers marketing depts will be making similar claims when they introduce new models, they have to sell new cars all the time or go bust. 

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

And how will things like that affect usability of the car when it's 10+ years old? 

Is it going to cost the owner £12 a day extra to drive it? Is it going to pollute more as it ages?

 

The free extra battery capacity is probably only during emergency, they are not a charity 😉

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/tesla-remotely-extends-the-range-of-some-cars-to-help-with-irma/

 

You asked what game they could play to encourage sales of new EVs to existing EV owners...   I gave you an example 

Anyone else need a beer?

 

there is no planet b  

 

We’ll find a way. Although we may still be disagreeing about it long after my beer is done. 
 

We’re getting into a bit of tit for tat vs something interesting to read. Hopefully by time I’ve finished my second beer… we’ll of turned a corner… 🍻

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

And how will things like that affect usability of the car when it's 10+ years old? 

Is it going to cost the owner £12 a day extra to drive it? Is it going to pollute more as it ages?

Oh come on, surely you know exactly @skomaz is trying to say, why do you always try to twist things?

 

35 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The free extra battery capacity is probably only during emergency, they are not a charity 😉

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/tesla-remotely-extends-the-range-of-some-cars-to-help-with-irma/

Dear oh dear, do you have shares in Tesla or something. Many IC cars like Jaguar, Rovers, Daimler and Vanden Plas had special reserve tanks built-in as standard equipment many years ago so if you got caught out and was unable because of traffic conditions etc get to the service station before the normal tanks run dry, you could switch in this special reserve tank in such an emergency without having to make a phone call to the factory for the unlock code etc. If its not too much of a personal question for you, how old are you? I'm guessing that you are pretty young, as your knowledge of IC vehicles seems to be a little lacking, if you don't mind me saying.

Edited 25 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

  

15 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

So are you now saying that you didn't mean to say what you wrote above then, which is what I was referring, when I said that EV makers marketing depts will be making similar claims when they introduce new models, they have to sell new cars all the time or go bust. 

See this part that covers it:

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

From government carrot and stick point of view, there is no in-use emissions game to be played. 

And the conclusion of that section:

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

So there would no longer be any pressure to punish the old BEV owners. Actually the opposite, BEV's need to be incentivised to be kept on the road for as long as possible.

 

That's not to say those who like new cars will not buy new cars. I'm saying those who can only use oldest cars will no longer get priced out of ownership as per current situation. There will always be the next cash cow, but pollution will not be the reason for BEV's. Even if particulates become a thing, they are not core components and can be changed when solutions appear.

 

I can understand when my out-there idea get disagreements, you don't agree it's fine, everyone is entitled to their own ideas/believes...... but this is on another level.

 

 

10 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

You asked what game they could play to encourage sales of new EVs to existing EV owners...   I gave you an example 

Is it a good example that will work though. The car will be slightly slower, whoop-de-doo. I never took any of my previous second hand cars to the dyno 🤔

10 minutes ago, ColinD said:

Anyone else need a beer?

 

there is no planet b  

 

We’ll find a way. Although we may still be disagreeing about it long after my beer is done. 
 

We’re getting into a bit of tit for tat vs something interesting to read. Hopefully by time I’ve finished my second beer… we’ll of turned a corner… 🍻

Good idea Colin, I fancy a beer, I'll just pop to the fridge and I'll join you in one. 😉

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Many IC cars like Jaguar, Rovers, Daimler and Vanden Plas had special reserve tanks built-in as standard equipment many years ago so if you got caught out and was unable because of traffic conditions etc get to the service station before the normal tanks run dry, you could switch in this special reserve tank in such an emergency without having to make a phone call to the factory for the unlock code etc.

There are always ways around normal design parameters, either by design, reserve tank, or by user, jerry tank.

This is different. You bought a 70 kWh car, it's actually a software locked 90 kWh battery. So instead of software lock, it is temporary unlocked for free in a national emergency.

 

I am only posting the link to support or give context to @lol-lolstatements. Not trying to sell their car or ignoring certain aspect of ICE, it would be good to know why my posts are take to such extreme.

37 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

There are always ways around normal design parameters, either by design, reserve tank, or by user, jerry tank.

This is different. You bought a 70 kWh car, it's actually a software locked 90 kWh battery. So instead of software lock, it is temporary unlocked for free in a national emergency.

 

I am only posting the link to support or give context to @lol-lolstatements. Not trying to sell their car or ignoring certain aspect of ICE, it would be good to know why my posts are take to such extreme.

You still don't understand, the reserve tank on some IC cars was not there for normal use, it was designed purely for emergency use, be it a national emergency or the type of emergency caused by missing your junction on a motorway and having to drive that bit further before being able to refuel the car. This reserve tank had to be switched in by the operation of a special switch when the car started spluttering due to fuel starvation. In the case of your Tesla it is not there as a design feature for your benefit, but for Tesla's benefit so they only had to make one model for both standard range and enhanced range versions, the latter was only unlocked once the owner paid the extra fee.

Edited 25 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

Today I saw a Leaf stranded on the road not far from us. Someone stopped on other side obviously come to help. A couple of guys walking round it. There was what looked like one of those jump starter packs on the grass verge, not sure what use that would be or maybe it was a small genny. They seemed to be trying to move it by pushing, without success. Location was about 500 yards past a Tesco with some chargers in the car park.

Edited 25 August, 20232 yr by xman

40 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

This is different. You bought a 70 kWh car, it's actually a software locked 90 kWh battery. So instead of software lock, it is temporary unlocked for free in a national emergency.

 

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

. In the case of your Tesla it is not there as a design feature for your benefit, but for Tesla's benefit so they only had to make one model for both standard range and enhanced range versions, the latter was only unlocked once the owner paid the extra fee.

 

Considering over 50% of the cost of an EV is the battery, this seems a very strange commericial decision. Or are they using the large unused capacity to mask the actual degradation over time.

1 minute ago, xman said:

 

 

Considering over 50% of the cost of an EV is the battery, this seems a very strange commericial decision. Or are they using the large unused capacity to mask the actual degradation over time.

That could be another plausible reason for it. If that is the case then it sure as hell blows a hole right through their claimed battery longevity and low battery degradation, thus making them just as guilty as ICE makers, like VW, BMW and Mercedes with their diesel gate scandal. 

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That could be another plausible reason for it. If that is the case then it sure as hell blows a hole right through their claimed battery longevity and low battery degradation, thus making them just as guilty as ICE makers, like VW, BMW and Mercedes with their diesel gate scandal. 

 

The battery being 50% of the car value might be close to being true for the early lithium batteries and for those cars with the biggest optional battery sizes but that is no longer true as many companies, particularly technical advanced ones like TESLA have moved on to Lithium Iron Phosphate packs which are much cheaper and both packs have been falling in price a part from a spike of a few months a year or two ago.

 

A case which is being followed in the States is where TESLA fitted a larger batter pack but the order they had was for a smaller battery pack ie 60 kws and not one of the 90 kwh pack sizes.  The current owner, and many agree with his argument is he thought he had a 60 kWh car with the consequential weight and energy efficiency of a lighter car when it turns out he has been hauling around 30 kwh, presumably about quarter of a tonne, more battery pack so is unhappy being asked for a few thousand dollars to software unlock the hidden part of the pack.

 

Hopefully be able to work it out and then the world would have another fine 90 kwh Model S which is great car and much better than the 60 kwh version......

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/4500-bill-to-unlock-extra-battery-capacity-has-people-taking-sides-between-tesla-and-customer/

 

$4,500 Bill To Unlock Extra Battery Capacity Has People Taking Sides Between Tesla And Customer

The customer bought a used Model S P60 and then found out that he had additional battery capacity that he was locked out of using.  t’s been a long time since Tesla sold the 60 kWH version of its Model S but that isn’t stopping it from ruffling feathers today. The owner of a used, but new-to-him Model S found out after the purchase that he’s carrying around the extra weight associated with his 90 kWh battery pack. And he’s not too keen on the fact that he can’t use that extra power without forking out $4,500.  Tesla got into the practice of selling a car with a software-limited battery pack more than half a decade ago. It would sell a 60 kWh battery pack in a car but limit it to just 40 kWh unless the buyer paid extra. In the case we’re discussing today, the Model S in question was originally equipped with a 60 kWh battery but now has a newer 90 kWh pack.  When he found out that it had extra capacity and that Tesla was only willing to unlock it for $4,500, he took to Reddit to complain. “I paid for 60kwh so I want a 60kwh battery so I don’t waste energy carrying the extra weight a bigger battery brings… If I’m carrying around a battery that weighs more I want to get something out of that extra weight,” they say.

Tesla certainly has the right, though perhaps not the moral high ground, to do whatever it would like. The buyer is also certainly at liberty to feel however they’d like to about the situation

 

 

 

 

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/08/25/tesla-installs-first-v4-supercharger-to-suit-all-evs

 

Cost to charge really matters as well as ease and the reliability.

I spotted a few hubs at filling stations in Aberdeen that have been built a while but need put into operation. (Turned on!)

Being 50% to 100% more expensive to run using these is not a great thing which the can be compared to maybe an efficient ICE vehicle.

(One that does more than 10 miles to a litre of petrol or diesel.)

 

I paid £10 for 13 kWh & £8 for 13 kWh because that was the only rapids i could get on.

That is £18 for 26 kWh and getting 4 miles a kWh that is 104 miles.

 

If i had managed to get an Aberdeen Council provided charger which i could not after trying 2 locations and was not going searching for any more 

they are 47 pence a kWh.

47 x 26 = £12.22

...................

 

Petrol @ supermarkets,   

104 divided by 45 mph = 2.3 gallons. 

Aberdeen prices unleaded, 143.7 pence a litre.  £6.53 a gallon,  x 2.3 = £15.00

 

MGF @ BP charging in Aberdeen in a handy place near harbour and river Dee.

79 pence a kWh. 

26 x 79 pence £20.

 

Petrol at MFG BP Aberdeen.

149.9 pence a litre unleaded,  = £6.81 a gallon, x 2.3 = £15.67,        Business users will be getting vat back on their fuels.  No help to private users.

 

..........................

Dundee Council and around the area and EV charging is made so simple and the price and chargers are really about where it needs to be. 

 

 

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by toot

Those prices are the norm in most places around here and maybe higher along motorways at their services, can't be 100% certain but that is I remember from seeing YT videos. 

Yes they are normal. & expensive & it can be £1.00 a kWh.  

 

But then there was not the £60 million or more of money thrown at Grants and Loans to Charge Place Scotland in a country with a population of under 6 million to have a Public Charging system that is a postcode lottery and where some of the 32 local authorities still have Free public charging and prices are all different and so are the chargers, maintenance and availability.

*Even more millions are going to SWARCO who run Charge Place Scotland at present, then who own e_volt who build chargers, and who run the maintenance for some of the local authorities as well as others with e-Volt chargers, and non e-volt chargers.

All of which held back private investment in Commercial Charging and infrastructure in a country generating more electricity than gets used or sold.

 

........................

Non Tesla EV charging Dundee & Aviemore.  Cheapness. 

 

 

 

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by toot

At those prices and when you add in the VED which is being introduced in 2025, its not really encouraging people to decide to switch until they have zero options left.

15 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

At those prices and when you add in the VED which is being introduced in 2025, its not really encouraging people to decide to switch until they have zero options left.

 

You forget the multitude of other advantages of EVs.

 

Most of us with EVs charge at home at something like 7.5p per kWh and not 75p per kWh, imagine being able to buy fuel at 20p a litre (oh I can as I have a company fuel card).

 

But in addition to most EV driver

 

1. Fuelling up, at home, friends, holiday, at a tenth of the price, (and VAT at 5%),
2. We have cheaper servicing, about half the price of ICE vehicles, 
3. Significant percentage of EV drivers can charge up at work at zero or low cost (how many ICR drivers can do that ?)
4. Price of EVs, driven mainly by TESLA and Chinese company like SAIC ie MG, Maxus as well as Volvo, Polestar and lowering buy, lease prices several times through the year
5. Two years more of free road tax and will the 2025 UK government, who are likely to be more EV friendly, like maintain some lower VED for EVs.  

I am sure I could think of another five, not all relate to cost, such as EVs being even easier than ICE cars to drive with one pedal driving, so one fells fresher after driving.  The list is long and so....

 

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by lol-lol

8 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

The battery being 50% of the car value might be close to being true for the early lithium batteries and for those cars with the biggest optional battery sizes but that is no longer true as many companies, particularly technical advanced ones like TESLA have moved on to Lithium Iron Phosphate packs which are much cheaper and both packs have been falling in price a part from a spike of a few months a year or two ago.

 

A case which is being followed in the States is where TESLA fitted a larger batter pack but the order they had was for a smaller battery pack ie 60 kws and not one of the 90 kwh pack sizes.  The current owner, and many agree with his argument is he thought he had a 60 kWh car with the consequential weight and energy efficiency of a lighter car when it turns out he has been hauling around 30 kwh, presumably about quarter of a tonne, more battery pack so is unhappy being asked for a few thousand dollars to software unlock the hidden part of the pack.

 

Hopefully be able to work it out and then the world would have another fine 90 kwh Model S which is great car and much better than the 60 kwh version......

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/4500-bill-to-unlock-extra-battery-capacity-has-people-taking-sides-between-tesla-and-customer/

 

$4,500 Bill To Unlock Extra Battery Capacity Has People Taking Sides Between Tesla And Customer

The customer bought a used Model S P60 and then found out that he had additional battery capacity that he was locked out of using.  t’s been a long time since Tesla sold the 60 kWH version of its Model S but that isn’t stopping it from ruffling feathers today. The owner of a used, but new-to-him Model S found out after the purchase that he’s carrying around the extra weight associated with his 90 kWh battery pack. And he’s not too keen on the fact that he can’t use that extra power without forking out $4,500.  Tesla got into the practice of selling a car with a software-limited battery pack more than half a decade ago. It would sell a 60 kWh battery pack in a car but limit it to just 40 kWh unless the buyer paid extra. In the case we’re discussing today, the Model S in question was originally equipped with a 60 kWh battery but now has a newer 90 kWh pack.  When he found out that it had extra capacity and that Tesla was only willing to unlock it for $4,500, he took to Reddit to complain. “I paid for 60kwh so I want a 60kwh battery so I don’t waste energy carrying the extra weight a bigger battery brings… If I’m carrying around a battery that weighs more I want to get something out of that extra weight,” they say.

Tesla certainly has the right, though perhaps not the moral high ground, to do whatever it would like. The buyer is also certainly at liberty to feel however they’d like to about the situation

 

 

 

I would argue that Tesla does not have the right, nor the moral high ground on this issue. It is well known that carrying extra weight around costs more, which the buyer has to cover. Added to this is that here in the UK at least, VED becomes payable on EV cars and so that means that the customer could be paying an increased tax because the extra capacity could be unlocked at any point by software.

 

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I would argue that Tesla does not have the right, nor the moral high ground on this issue. It is well known that carrying extra weight around costs more, which the buyer has to cover. Added to this is that here in the UK at least, VED becomes payable on EV cars and so that means that the customer could be paying an increased tax because the extra capacity could be unlocked at any point by software.

 

The eleventh commandment, accidently left on Mount Sinai by Mosses stated "Never pay Retail".

 

The RRP does mean something but getting 5,10, 15, 20% discount is the fun of car buying.  I am presuming RRP must be a reported to government value with its importance with the luxury VED tax, even if one does get a£1K, £2k off or whatever.

 

Probably would need a test case with the over-batterying of cars like the TESLAs.  I just want to see the new TESLA model 3 Highland being reported at sub £40k "retail".

 

Having worked and working with several car, and motorcycle importers it is interesting to see those export and import values which, much due to taxes etc, are quite different to those retail prices.  Which is the better value to work with ?   TESLA look like they will be increasingly looking to see cars directly to UK customers.  Come down to the docks and pick up your car and save a packet.

 

In customs we have six different methods for valuation.  Transaction is the primary one use about 99% of the time, the other methods, same, similar, retail minus, cost plus and customs agreed are the other 5 methods.  They have to be looked at in turn and this is the basis for customs valuation.  Perhaps better than an importer stated RRP.

 

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

You forget the multitude of other advantages of EVs.

 

Most of us with EVs charge at home at something like 7.5p per kWh and not 75p per kWh, imagine being able to buy fuel at 20p a litre (oh I can as I have a company fuel card).

 

But in addition to most EV driver

 

1. Fuelling up, at home, at a tenth of the price, (and VAT at 5%),
2. We have cheaper servicing, about half the price of ICE vehicles, 
3. Significant percentage of EV drivers can charge up at work at zero or low cost (how many ICR drivers can do that ?)
4. Price of EVs, driven mainly by TESLA and Chinese company like SAIC ie MG, Maxus as well as Volvo, Polestar and lowering buy, lease prices several times through the year
5. Two years more of free road tax and will the 2025 UK government, who are likely to be more EV friendly, like maintain some lower VED for EVs.  

I am sure I could think of another five, not all relate to cost, such as EVs being even easier than ICE cars to drive with one pedal driving, so one fells fresher after driving.  The list is long and so....

 

The points that you raise are only available to a few EV owners / drivers.

 

As a company car driver, I used to get free fuel for private use as it was brought on a company fuel card. 

Item 1 Around here at least, there are few places where people have the ability to charge at home, especially true in older areas of the city.

Item 2 Servicing is not always cheaper as this 6 month old video reveals. (mind you, I notice that on the invoice it did mention a cambelt check, on an EV?)

Item 3 is debatable as many more people now work from home and so item 1 comes back into play.

Item 4. I'm not sure about this aspect, EV's still appear to be pricey to me at least.

Item 5. I really can't see that any government is going to be able to sustain free VED for EV's as they will be losing massive revenue due to the fall in ICE cars on the road, driven not only by the fact more people will be switching to EV's but also because they introduced quotas for ICE cars that can be sold each year, and that gets more aggressive each year.

 

So it might well become an urban myth that EVs are far cheaper to run than their ICE counterparts. This aspect might well be falling into the category that our current government seems to rely on, and that is that if you repeat something often enough that people will begin to believe its true even when it is a blatant lie. 

47 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The eleventh commandment, accidently left on Mount Sinai by Mosses stated "Never pay Retail".

 

The RRP does mean something but getting 5,10, 15, 20% discount is the fun of car buying.  I am presuming RRP must be a reported to government value with its importance with the luxury VED tax, even if one does get a£1K, £2k off or whatever.

 

Probably would need a test case with the over-batterying of cars like the TESLAs.  I just want to see the new TESLA model 3 Highland being reported at sub £40k "retail".

 

Having worked and working with several car, and motorcycle importers it is interesting to see those export and import values which, much due to taxes etc, are quite different to those retail prices.  Which is the better value to work with ?   TESLA look like they will be increasingly looking to see cars directly to UK customers.  Come down to the docks and pick up your car and save a packet.

 

In customs we have six different methods for valuation.  Transaction is the primary one use about 99% of the time, the other methods, same, similar, retail minus, cost plus and customs agreed are the other 5 methods.  They have to be looked at in turn and this is the basis for customs valuation.  Perhaps better than an importer stated RRP.

 

It doesn't make any difference to DVLA how much you actually pay for the car, or if you brought the car direct from Tesla thus saving a massive amount of the RRP, it is the RRP price that will always use for their calculations. In addition to this there is also another bit to the VED besides the RRP and that is the CO2 and NOX emissions from the tailpipe. As EV's don't do either as they don't have a tailpipe 😄, I think it be folly to think that they won't find another way to replace that revenue, and that could perhaps be based on weight or range of the car etc. One thing is pretty certain, they will not be able to afford foregoing that revenue.

 

The other issue with Tesla's flirtation with direct selling to customers and cutting the dealers out of the loop, is what happens if the customer has problems with the car, the dealer will not want to get be involved as they have made zero out of the sale.?

 

Problems problems.

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

If worried about Porsche servicing charges do not get a Porsche EV or ICE and service at Porsche Dealerships.

Or maybe a Skoda Enyaq or any VW Group EV,s or if you do check the price.

 

Then check with Nissan for a Leaf, or Renault for a Zoe, or BMW / MINI for a BMW or MINI ev. 

 

No point looking at the most expensive or the cheapest cars and them making statements as though that applies to all EV Servicing & the expense.

 

...............

Taking the pith.

4 years servicing. £10 a month.

The first service and brake fluid change is @ 24 months / 25,000 miles.

(Mine might be in in about 13 months, and then Motability are paying.)

 

 

Actually inspect the body and wheels before service. Clean car. If getting washed do it then, not after a service... IMO.

a road test is nice, plug into the diagnostics before starting the service ICE or MINI just simply clever.

Usual proper servicing and maintenance.

 

You want the Pollen / Cabin filter inspected, location location location.

But do that annually maybe. 

 

...............  Others might follow the example. & do as standard. Ask the customer about tyre rotation.

Wheels always off is nice to see if they do come off easily.

Really Nice, Tyres rotated, or front to back.

 

If doing tyre pressure changes tell the customer / driver..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 August, 20232 yr by toot

43 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The points that you raise are only available to a few EV owners / drivers.

As a company car driver, I used to get free fuel for private use as it was brought on a company fuel card. 

Item 1 Around here at least, there are few places where people have the ability to charge at home, especially true in older areas of the city.

Item 2 Servicing is not always cheaper as this 6 month old video reveals. (mind you, I notice that on the invoice it did mention a cambelt check, on an EV?)

Item 3 is debatable as many more people now work from home and so item 1 comes back into play.  Item 4. I'm not sure about this aspect, EV's still appear to be pricey to me at least.  Item 5. I really can't see that any government is going to be able to sustain free VED for EV's as they will be losing massive revenue due to the fall in ICE cars on the road, driven not only by the fact more people will be switching to EV's but also because they introduced quotas for ICE cars that can be sold each year, and that gets more aggressive each year.

So it might well become an urban myth that EVs are far cheaper to run than their ICE counterparts. This aspect might well be falling into the category that our current government seems to rely on, and that is that if you repeat something often enough that people will begin to believe its true even when it is a blatant lie. 

 

I would not say a few, I would have thought going on for half.  Where I live in Worcester, an area called Warndon Villages, built mainly in the nineteen nineties, as with a huge number of big builds done towards the end of the last century and even in to this century these are massive estates and with nearly all the houses with driveways, this estate added about 10% in to the population of Worcester and this is a smaller development than such as Bradley Stoke Bristol which added housing for 20K whereas my estate added around 10k.  There are many hundreds of such estates round the country and this added to the housing from the 1930s onwards that tended to have drives, such as my parents houses I lived in in the sixties and seventies.  All capable of having EV charges for the off road parking. Then there are the massive schemes by Source London, and in Oxford and several other cities to put charges on kerbside posts and lampposts and the like.  My company owned Source London before selling it to Texico and the rollout was certainly challenging, much more so than what we did in Paris.  So there are solutions for both those with off road parking and street parking.  I have seen this schemes charging half the motorway EV charging prices. Another option done here in Worcester is at the local community centres but also the super markets and fast food outlets are increasingly got EV charging to pull you in and at lower than other places rates.

That guy with Porsche is a click bait kn**.  No sympathy for the twonk.  I have full EV, full hybrid and mild hybrid.  I am much happier taking the EV for service than the hybrids, it simply is much cheaper as there is so little to do.  Ah, change the cabin filter and kick the tyres for service A and B.  One has to be careful as dealerships will try and charge for brake fluid changes, when it might not need it, over priced 12v lead acid battery replacement, no thanks I will get Halfrauds to do it, or National, with my trade discount thanks.  JUst simply much cheaper to service as they are much simpler motors, no engine oil, no oil filter, no fuel filter etc etc. 

Companies are making workers come back to work at least 3 days a week, some now pushing for 4 so more miles being done.  This is evidenced by there being much more accidents last year, much more accidents claims and now car premiums up by half or more as insurers losing money.  We have a bank of ten 7 kw chargers at Heathrow, some are suppose to be 22kW but not wired up correctly. Sometimes, if visiting some of my warehouses I just park near the warehouse big doors or a side window and us my Granny cable to get some charge, that is the beauty 30M location I can charge at ie most businesses as well as family and friends.  Pay family/friends 40p per Wh, VAT at only 5%, and we both win.

With Items 4 the price of EVs, particularly TESLAs, are in a steady lowering path as the batteries become cheaper and cheaper. Should affect all other car firms who can tap in the Chinese Li-Fe-Ph batteries and maybe even "Na" ones soon.  Those firms that seemed to have missed the bus ie VW, Ford, Stelantis etc need to do deals pronto to get a source for these cheaper, but better performing batteries else they will be bankrupt by the end of this decade.

I do not think EV drivers mind paying road tax.  It was and is an incentive as was the government subsidy on buying the car and towards the install of the charge, very nice thank-you government and other UK tax payers.  About £100 would be fine, £8.34 a month, fair enough.  Present UK government has failed to keep UK Excise duty on fuel increasing with inflation so definitely like to see the abolition of the 5p per litre pandemic reduction and then excise duty on both petrol and diesel rising with inflation.  With the UK in such an economic mess with national debt rising from below 50% in the noughties to its current sky high level which we have only previously seen during the Depression and during WW2....

An EV is much cheaper and I can see this owning one along side ICE cars over the last two years.

 

   

 

   

1 hour ago, toot said:

If worried about Porsche servicing charges do not get a Porsche EV or ICE and service at Porsche Dealerships.

Or maybe a Skoda Enyaq or any VW Group EV,s or if you do check the price.

 

Then check with Nissan for a Leaf, or Renault for a Zoe, or BMW / MINI for a BMW or MINI ev. 

 

No point looking at the most expensive or the cheapest cars and them making statements as though that applies to all EV Servicing & the expense.

 

...............

Taking the pith.

4 years servicing. £10 a month.

The first service and brake fluid change is @ 24 months / 25,000 miles.

(Mine might be in in about 13 months, and then Motability are paying.)

 

 

Actually inspect the body and wheels before service. Clean car. If getting washed do it then, not after a service... IMO.

a road test is nice, plug into the diagnostics before starting the service ICE or MINI just simply clever.

Usual proper servicing and maintenance.

 

You want the Pollen / Cabin filter inspected, location location location.

But do that annually maybe. 

 

...............  Others might follow the example. & do as standard. Ask the customer about tyre rotation.

Wheels always off is nice to see if they do come off easily.

Really Nice, Tyres rotated, or front to back.

 

If doing tyre pressure changes tell the customer / driver..

 

 

 

 

Always told to start the oil removal first when the oil is warmest, this service checks the tyres, wtf.

 

@tootYes I accept that is the case, hence why I said that the servicing is not always cheaper, this will obviously vary from brand to brand, BUT the basic checks will be the same regardless of the brand and only involves for the first service in this particular case, be a visual check only, and maybe a cabin/pollen filter swap. Servicing for my Superb cost around the £300 last time including all fluids etc.

I also ended up by saying "it might well become an urban myth that EVs are far cheaper to run than their ICE counterparts", this statement would clearly vary for make and also model to model. Dealers will not be happy to forego the lack of servicing profits, so you can reasonably expect prices will rise to compensate, and the rate of rise will get more pronounced as the EV's gain ground and become the new norm.