42 minutes ago, toot said:

That is what 2 million quid and 1,914 bhp gets you then.

 

Danny Padrosa,s face just so funny when in the car..

 

 

 

This is very non showroom spec and surprises me it could do under 10 minutes.

But then it will not have had only 184 ps and running with the 2 regen setting .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Danny Pedrosa is world class still.  KTM MotoGP bike is also a demon starter with it's lowering system and perfect weight transfer. Super impressive.

 

12 hours ago, toot said:

That is what 2 million quid and 1,914 bhp gets you then.

 

Danny Padrosa,s face just so funny when in the car..

 

 

 

This is very non showroom spec and surprises me it could do under 10 minutes.

But then it will not have had only 184 ps and running with the 2 regen setting .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good time to beat Clarkson in his 2.7 litre S type Jaaaag with its 200 hp or so.  Many drivers think that a road diesel cars are pretty good on the track due to their high torque figures but the way the power disappears so abruptly and peak power is often nearish to the redline actually makes them not the suitable for a track day as Clarkson and Hamster has said several times I recall.  Better with a good auto box rather than manual maybe but not as good as a petrol with the same hp but better spread across the rev range and less weight both in the chassis and in the inertia of the spinning crankshaft etc.

 

Mind you Sabine did beat Jeezers 10 minutes and was closer to 9 minutes and one wonders if the 9 minutes 50 seconds for the electric mini is more of a Ring Specialist time rather than a Jeezer time.  Respectable, is it limited to about a 100 mph when it gets a chance to go flat out between the Gantry and the Bridge ?

   

@lol-lolI thought the MINI team were ridiculous celebrating like that with the Track Special vehicle.  I would like to know what a showroom model in their drivers hands can do.  We might see with the new bigger battery and more power one.    See if they can get near ICE MINI,s and 7 mins 40 seconds.  

 

...............

They did change battery management and Dynamic Traction Control but it is more suited to Karting tracks than race tracks and even the back road thing is not the best because of the regen setting rather than selecting more regen braking with a shifter rather than too much and far too much as they have it.

 

 

Edited 23 September, 20232 yr by toot

I know a lot of folk will take this the wrong way, but please, I beg you, play this video, he makes some sensible points and like, me is not anti EV at all.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I know a lot of folk will take this the wrong way, but please, I beg you, play this video, he makes some sensible points and like, me is not anti EV at all.

 

 

 

He has gone down hill big time clearly loving the extra revenue from clicks. He does have some engineering knowledge, cannot remember him publishing what degrees or whatever he has.

 

He seems just be regurgitation news which much we have heard without quoting meaningful stat. Yes if some idiot takes a half ton battery pack out of an ev and leaves it next several other evs for days that is not smart same if you left 15 gallons of petrol in plastic cans for days. Darwinian behaviour. I lost respect for him some weeks ago and he is on my no watch list now as he says nothing new and distorts news for clicks.

I got fed up with the 10 minutes of advertising for torches and stuff, after 15 minutes he still had not got any further forward than describing a flying garage door in 20 different ways.

 

I wont watch any of his stuff again after that.

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I got fed up with the 10 minutes of advertising for torches and stuff, after 15 minutes he still had not got any further forward than describing a flying garage door in 20 different ways.

 

I wont watch any of his stuff again after that.

 

The Electric Viking is the YouTuber reckon is very good. Makes the odd statistical error but most of what he says is very interesting and full of concise facts. 

 

Born Nylald is the world EV fountain head of knowledge.

 

Robert llewelyn is and has been the UK informative source.

 

EV fires and all the other crap is massively overstating a minor issue whilst missing the evolution that is occurring in transport and power.

 

27 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I got fed up with the 10 minutes of advertising for torches and stuff, after 15 minutes he still had not got any further forward than describing a flying garage door in 20 different ways.

 

I wont watch any of his stuff again after that.

Well that is a shame, you can skip past all that guff and get to the real good content, if I can manage it, I'm damn sure you can if you want to learn something. I keep my mind open to new concepts.

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

He has gone down hill big time clearly loving the extra revenue from clicks. He does have some engineering knowledge, cannot remember him publishing what degrees or whatever he has.

 

He seems just be regurgitation news which much we have heard without quoting meaningful stat. Yes if some idiot takes a half ton battery pack out of an ev and leaves it next several other evs for days that is not smart same if you left 15 gallons of petrol in plastic cans for days. Darwinian behaviour. I lost respect for him some weeks ago and he is on my no watch list now as he says nothing new and distorts news for clicks.

Oh dear, you have got confused with the Sydney Airport Fire video, this is entirely different to that one .🙄

 

5 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

Exactly what I have been saying, EV's can catch fire in the same fashion as ICE cars can and the method of dealing with it is exactly the same in both cases, no big surprise there, they all use wiring, plastics, foam, leather etc in the general construction of them. Diesel and petrol seldom get involved in the fire itself, and if it does, then foam generally puts it out pretty quickly. If a battery in EV gets involved in the fire itself, then it is a much harder fire and far hazardous to deal with and can take huge amounts of water to cool the battery enough to stop the chemical reaction before it can be extinguished and even then, they can reignite at anytime.

Milk tanker fire

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/dramatic-pictures-show-moment-milk-27703137

@Graham Butcher

What is the point about continually saying or posting that EV fires are dangerous and safety is required with EV,s Charging and installing charging points?

That seems to be the case.  It looks like nobody here are had any personal experience with their EV,s or has knowledge of anyone they know that has.

 

The Manufacturers & Authorities and Emergency Services are all aware of the issue and still EV,s are being built, more are planned and that is that.

 

At least you are warned that there can be issues and danger to life.      

 

So now i am off out for a blast in my EV and later i will charge it and hopefully i am not in an accident that is fatal or results in life changing injuries to me or others 

and that i meet not too many that need 'Guide dogs for the stupid'. 

 

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by toot

That Milk tanker was not an ev

 

What concerned me in the clip is what  was it that exploded on the side of the motorway next to it, obviously ignited by the tanker?

 

 

 

 

 

@StonekeeperI know the milk tanker was not an EV and in this thread there are other examples of road closures and fires with HGV,s and Busses and  cars.

There have been a few this past week in Scotland.

Not heard of an EV fire this week and when there are ones in Scotland we will without doubt hear, there is no way the Scottish Daily Express or Scottish Herald will miss having an article.

There are fires reported by the highways agency on twitter every month, most are HGV and ICE vehicles.

 

 

In an interview with Forbes earlier this year, Thatcham Research CTO, Richard Billyeald, said that electric vehicles generally have a lower fire risk than fossil-fuel vehicles, but that the data pool is currently small.

“Our latest research indicates that the risk of a fire for all types of EV remains less likely than for ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles. It should be noted that the usable data only goes back five years and even now the number of EVs on the roads still represents a very small sample size.

“This is also reflected in the safety testing we conduct in the UK on behalf of Euro NCAP, where despite the robust impacts to the front and particularly the sides of the vehicle where the battery is most vulnerable, there have been no resultant thermal events.”

 

 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by Stonekeeper

In Scotland statistics should be easy to compile since there is one Fire Brigade, the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.& one police force, Police Scotland.

 

Not that any figures from Police Scotland are likely to be accurate or joined up to anything The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service have.

One has to go with what figures are available and in Scotland you can be sure one or other Political Party will be scrutinising them to prove or disprove point, 

and that will include Politicians not in Scotland and their friendly media.

Scotland have an electric Fire engine

 

https://www.scottish-enterprise-mediacentre.com/news/worlds-first-electric-fire-engine-designed-and-built-in-scotland-by-emergency-one

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well that is a shame, you can skip past all that guff and get to the real good content, if I can manage it, I'm damn sure you can if you want to learn something. I keep my mind open to new concepts.

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, they say a lot about you.

Emergency Services in Scotland, Local Authorities, Utility Companies and others have lots of EV,s along with Hire companies then businesses and private individuals.

Public and commercial and private chargers / facilities.

For a small country with a high EV use per capita it should be very easy to be compiling information on everything regarding EV,s. 

 

While there is an issue with the roll out of Public Chargers that is not just ones from Local Authorities / Councils and Administered by CPS.

There are Commercial Sites / Hubs built and ready to get connected and powered up and they can not get the connections done by the Energy Companies or their contractors.

It is more Commercial Chargers that are required because these have been held back while there was Free or Cheap Council chargers which many of are unreliable or no longer in service and where there are newer ones they are no longer cheap.

 

..................

There was yet another EV Rally Scotland recently.

It pees me off with the kidology of that when the Maintenance are at the stops / chargers to be sure they are in service before the event (ones that normally might be out of service for days or weeks) and that some on the event get to use Council Facilities that are normally not available to the public, and which get opened out of normal hours for that yard to let participants charge.   Part of the con between Transport for Scotland and the Event Organisers and whoever.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Passing by in Long range cars which need not charge at locations with only one Rapid charger which often does not work proves very little about what living in that area and having to public charge or even visiting or travelling is about.

 

 

 

2021. Just a Con, pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

....................

 

 

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by toot

Those of us who source our own EVs, some of us use our EVs for work, some of use will use mild and full hybrids as well but the big change to miles drive with EVs compared to ICE will be by goods transporters. My office at Heathrow uses EVs which pick up freight from the airline sheds to our off airport transit shed but the big change in use of EVs for moving goods is with companies like DPD who now have over 3,300 EVs used on delivery.  DPD have teamed up with Glasgow HQ company Oncharge but using the DPD Bicester depot as a base. 

 

https://green.dpd.co.uk/

 

50 kwh battery packs can be dropped off (must weight a bit) and used by those two thirds of drivers who do not have home chargers. Trying to find out more but sounds interesting.

Presumably put inside the van during the night to do the charging and then Oncharge pickup in the morning. Questions like is it doing 7.4 kW AC charging rather than DC ?

@toot I post about all kinds of things, but EV does indeed pose a real risk and if we are not careful we will begin to get careless and actually believe that EV cars are less prone to fire than an ICE car. Nobody can actually say that with 100% confidence as EV cars are not as common as ICE, therefore there will be far more ICE cars catching fire, that is an obvious fact that I have yet to see any actual acceptance of within the confines of this forum. It seems to be the general view that ICE is more likely to catch fire than an EV by a massive factor, and that EV are the absolute opposite and are apparently the best thing since sliced bread. 

 

We have billions of ICE car and vehicles on the roads, stretched back for decades and there are many of older vehicles with poor maintenance and ancient and worn parts, rubber hoses perish and leak oil and fuel onto hot exhausts etc. How can you compare that against something that is still fairly new, the first fully electric car to go on sale of the modern era was 2008, and it is and is still a slow uptake by the public. It would have been a far slower uptake had it not been for various inducements by governments, which I don't think the ICE ever had got. Now with the predicted total ban of ICE powered cars, the EV market is being propelled into the mainstream market before it has stood the test of time.

 

Fact is that ICE powered vehicles, all the fire depots worldwide know 100% how to handle these and can confidently deal with such incidents quickly and efficiently and once put out, stay put out. This is not the case with EV's as can be seen by the various fire brigades all trying to come to terms with the best solutions and there is currently NOT a universally accepted method for safely dealing with them on a national level, let alone worldwide.

 

The plain truth is that until there is an even mix of EV and ICE cars of similar ages on the road, we will not know just how what the truth is. New cars of both types of motive power are extremely unlikely to catch fire due to their motive system, if they do catch fire it is more than likely going to be due to other factors, i.e, user error, DIY wiring, cigarette or maybe arson etc. But as the age and materials breakdown, the chances of fire, excluding those already mentioned, will increase naturally. 

 

So in essence, it is totally wrong for people to claim that there are far more ICE fires than there are EV fires, therefore EV's are inherently safer is just pure BS at this point in time, and if that if people believe than we are in for a rough ride.

 

 

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

35 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Those of us who source our own EVs, some of us use our EVs for work, some of use will use mild and full hybrids as well but the big change to miles drive with EVs compared to ICE will be by goods transporters. My office at Heathrow uses EVs which pick up freight from the airline sheds to our off airport transit shed but the big change in use of EVs for moving goods is with companies like DPD who now have over 3,300 EVs used on delivery.  DPD have teamed up with Glasgow HQ company Oncharge but using the DPD Bicester depot as a base. 

 

https://green.dpd.co.uk/

 

50 kwh battery packs can be dropped off (must weight a bit) and used by those two thirds of drivers who do not have home chargers. Trying to find out more but sounds interesting.

Presumably put inside the van during the night to do the charging and then Oncharge pickup in the morning. Questions like is it doing 7.4 kW AC charging rather than DC ?

With respect, how on earth is this supposed to work? OnCharge | Overnight charging for electric fleet vans | Battery-As-A-Service for electric vehicles I watched the video, and it asks you to watch the full video, clicking on the link it says that the video is not available yet. This is clutching at straws, the video that is there shows a charger unit being slid into a van and the van driving home and that is it. Nothing about how the unit is to be used, or what happens to the unit in the morning, it would be too heavy to be unloaded by the van driver and left at the roadside for the collection so presumably, the driver has to return to the depot in the morning to unload the unit and then load the van. Why not leave the van at the depot overnight on charge???

2 hours ago, toot said:

It pees me off with the kidology of that when the Maintenance are at the stops / chargers to be sure they are in service before the event (ones that normally might be out of service for days or weeks) and that some on the event get to use Council Facilities that are normally not available to the public, and which get opened out of normal hours for that yard to let participants charge.   Part of the con between Transport for Scotland and the Event Organisers and whoever.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Passing by in Long range cars which need not charge at locations with only one Rapid charger which often does not work proves very little about what living in that area and having to public charge or even visiting or travelling is about.

I haven't watched the videos yet, but I will, unlike some who won't. But I take your point about the kidology involved. Here in Essex each year we host the annual Ride London cycle race held over two days with many roads being closed for the racecourse and of course we suffer badly with some disgustingly massive potholes and poor road surfaces due to lack of funding from central government. The roads used for the actual race will of course have been fully repaired, potholes nicely filled in, and poor roads resurfaced just days prior to the race taking place. 

 

The usual cyclists can take their life in their hands but those in the race, oh dear, have to be treated like gods, can't have those riders having to dodge potholes, can we.🙄

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

3 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

“Our latest research indicates that the risk of a fire for all types of EV remains less likely than for ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles. It should be noted that the usable data only goes back five years and even now the number of EVs on the roads still represents a very small sample size.

This is precisely my point, that data is limited owing to the fact that EV cars are still only a very small percentage of the total number of cars in use and also are still very young and have not suffered the ageing process that the older more common ICE cars have, and it is well known that materials do deteriorate with age and heating/cooling process not just from the cars normal thermal cycle but also the seasonal thermal ageing process. 

 

So we are NOT comparing apples with apples and as the ICE cars decline and EV replace them, such incidents will become more commonplace and in a few years time, the figures may well show that the fire authorities fears and worries were indeed justified after all.

 

Folks, please don't this to mean that I'm anti EV, I'm not, It just that we cannot make the claims that EV's are safer or indeed cleaner for the environment at this stage in their life cycle. All we can say with total confidence is that where they are being used, there is less pollution being emitted, but sadly that pollution may well be happening in other locations around the globe, so we MAY only be moving the problem elsewhere and that will be proven in due course, one way or the other.

Edited 24 September, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher