A Winter of discontent?

[@Lee]

So with the RMT having taken industrial action last week Barristers today, reports of baggage handlers striking in July, Post Office members of the CWU (Communication Workers Union) voting to strike and I think other members of CWU in BT/ Openreach being balloted, are we headed to a summer of discontent?
 

It'll be just like the 'good old days' of the 1970s won't it? Who next - bin men again and rubbish piled up like a few years ago? At least British Leyland can't go on strike these days.

Generally I'm in favour of the industrial action. Costs are rising whilst wages aren't and in many cases haven't been for years.

 

 

Edited 15 December, 2022 by @Lee

[john999boy]

49 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Generally I'm in favour of the industrial action. Costs are rising whilst wages aren't and in many cases haven't been for years.

It's better to have a mediated outcome as things tend to spiral out of control otherwise.

[Ootohere]

Project Crush the Unions and Save Big Dog is bound to fail. 

 

A slower pace of life is a good thing really IMO.

Less wasteful travel and pollution and buying of useless crap by skint people is good, but more debt that people will never clear is not. 

 

That happens when more and more people are skint.

There will be more spent on Lottery tickets, gambling, smoking and drinking might increase and more deaths from those waiting on hospital treatment or even a diagnosis.

A bit like Covid and lockdowns there. 

 

There is no way that all lower paid workers can get paid more to cover increased living / household expenses while those with more than twice as much and much more than they need to get by on are getting tax cuts and building up more savings and making more investment for their retirement. 

Edited 27 June, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

26 minutes ago, john999boy said:

It's better to have a mediated outcome as things tend to spiral out of control otherwise.

I agree, John but that involves all parties coming together. AFAIK in the RMTs case one party has failed to do so.

[EnterName]

We are currently in dispute with our company.

They've offered us 4% and told us it's the largest cost of living pay rise we've had for a decade.

I asked them when was the last time the gap between inflation and the pay rise was as large as what's being offered, and they admitted it was some time in the 90's. 🤨

[Ootohere]

There is no concerted effort yet to bring London to a standstill. 

That is all travel / transport , all food deliveries in or out by haulage or train or plane.

Affecting the supply of water and energy & treatment of sewage and waste so affecting those that just 'work from home' and the Financial Services etc. 

 

That can never be allowed to happen obviously and would be a Civil Emergency.  

  That is the kind of thing that terrorists could do but not the Union Leaders.

 

So pain for those around the UK to some degree or another but not for the Capital. 

Edited 27 June, 2022 by roottoot

[skomaz]

Personally whilst I have some sympathy with those taking action I'm 100% against strikes that affect the wider population.  By all means take action but only take it against the company you are in 'dispute' with and keep others out of it. 

 

Talking to people around here about the RMT strikes nearly all have said they have some sympathy but think the RMTs demands are too 'out of touch' with reality and they disagree with the strikes...   And Question Time last week with Mick Lynch on was interesting as he didn't seem to have the wholesale audience support he seemed to think he would have and looked to be on the defensive a bit as a result. 

[KenONeill]

11 hours ago, skomaz said:

I have some sympathy with those taking action I'm 100% against strikes that affect the wider population.  By all means take action but only take it against the company you are in 'dispute' with and keep others out of it.

I await with interest your expansion on this, which will explain how BR staff can affect their employer and not the travelling public.

[skomaz]

7 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I await with interest your expansion on this, which will explain how BR staff can affect their employer and not the travelling public.

 

You'll have to await with interest for a long time then as that's not for me to determine, - there will be ways and means.  And it's not 'BR' anymore (hasn't been for years...)

[Aspman]

Looks like GPs are going to strike as well.

And Airport staff.

 

Teachers lining up

I'm sure we'll see other pubic sector staff.

 

I hope the rhetoric that it's "lazy british people not wanting to work". If we have people not wanting to work as GPs on 100k+ then something is very badly wrong.

But it's the same for baggage handlers, if people don't want to do that work for the pay and conditions on offer, maybe the pay and conditions are not good enough.

I can understand why people are not queuing up for a minimum wage job, probably on zero hours contract, that needs not inconsiderable travel to get to and is actually not very nice to do.

 

Same with fruit picking, would you like to do a tough, all weathers job that will only last for a few weeks and during which you'll either have to stay on site in a rancid caravan or travel some distance at your own cost to work 12hr for not a lot of money?

 

Would you like to work for Amazon, where you are timed as you run around a warehouse dodging robots and at risk of being sacked of you need to **** too often or get injured from the running?

 

Boris and his ilk are desperate to introduce US style employment law where you are basically rented meat for 10hr a day.

The most potent ting people can do is stop consuming, stop buying. Working from home is half of that. Modern economies are based on consumption.

i.e. Apple charges £1000 for an iphone. What is it worth if no one buys it?

Edited 28 June, 2022 by Aspman

[@Lee]

19 hours ago, skomaz said:

Personally whilst I have some sympathy with those taking action I'm 100% against strikes that affect the wider population.  By all means take action but only take it against the company you are in 'dispute' with and keep others out of it. 

 

Talking to people around here about the RMT strikes nearly all have said they have some sympathy but think the RMTs demands are too 'out of touch' with reality and they disagree with the strikes...   And Question Time last week with Mick Lynch on was interesting as he didn't seem to have the wholesale audience support he seemed to think he would have and looked to be on the defensive a bit as a result. 

The people in the RMT striking,had a ballot and they voted for industrial action. Striking, AKA withdrawing their labour, was voted for. Like I said in my reply to John, there are three parties in discussion, or at least two are, the RMT and Network Rail. The third party, Grant Shapps, hasn't AFAIK engaged in the discussion. 
Striking does affect other people but I think that might be the whole point (or at least a large part of it)

I also watched QT last week with Mick Lynch and thought he wasn't too bad but then the audience was made up of some very odd people. 
I much preferred his appearance on Newsnight one or two nights before where he called out an MP (I forget which one now) a liar. I think he did so fourteen or fifteen times. The MP started to look very sheepish, couldn't refute the claim and in the end couldn't even look Mick Lynch in the eye. 

I think the train operators fall under the title National Rail. Same logo as British Rail.
 

[EnterName]

1 hour ago, Aspman said:

Looks like GPs are going to strike as well.

From my perspective. as GPs pretty much went into hiding since Q2 2020, I can't see their strike having much effect, other than to save some money, assuming they are not paid while on strike.

It would be both straightforward and a good idea to break the GPs monopoly on primary healthcare in the UK, IMO.

[Aspman]

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

From my perspective. as GPs pretty much went into hiding since Q2 2020, I can't see their strike having much effect, other than to save some money, assuming they are not paid while on strike.

It would be both straightforward and a good idea to break the GPs monopoly on primary healthcare in the UK, IMO.

I don’t dispute something is very broken with our gp set up right now and the whole story isn’t being told.

 

GPs are paid a lot of money even they don’t deny that. But we still still have a shortage. Either not enough people want to become gps even on the money offered or the nhs isn’t trying to employ enough gps. 
 

i don’t like their 30% claim due to long hours though. You could pay me a million a day but i still can’t do more than the work of one person. Paying 30% more money doesn’t give you 30% more hours in a day.

[Ootohere]

I have read the news articles. So the BMA, the UK, but signing contracts in England, so that is NHS England.

It is not just GP's looking for more money.

 

The GP's i know are not employees they are employers, they are self employed, and are companies / partners and contractors and many are now retired early and no longer with the NHS. 

Lots of money is earned not within their Surgeries but in their other employment as out of hour doctors. 

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07842395/officers

 

 

 

Edited 28 June, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

I'm not sure if it's related but a US outfit took over a load of GP practices earlier this year I think. Centene 

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/january/takeover-of-london-gp-practices-by-private-us-healthcare-company-set-for-landmark-judicial-review-on-1-february/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/26/nhs-gp-practice-operator-with-500000-patients-passes-into-hands-of-us-health-insurer

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/37-nhs-gp-practices-have-been-sold-to-a-private-us-health-company-heres-what-it-means-3172193

[skomaz]

49 minutes ago, Aspman said:

I don’t dispute something is very broken with our gp set up right now and the whole story isn’t being told.

 

GPs are paid a lot of money even they don’t deny that. But we still still have a shortage. Either not enough people want to become gps even on the money offered or the nhs isn’t trying to employ enough gps. 
 

i don’t like their 30% claim due to long hours though. You could pay me a million a day but i still can’t do more than the work of one person. Paying 30% more money doesn’t give you 30% more hours in a day.

 

My understanding of the shortage is that it is partly due to the fact that many medics want to specialise in a particular field rather than being an all round generalist, the latter being what GPS need to be. 

[skomaz]

37 minutes ago, @Lee said:

I'm not sure if it's related but a US outfit took over a load of GP practices earlier this year I think. Centene 

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2022/january/takeover-of-london-gp-practices-by-private-us-healthcare-company-set-for-landmark-judicial-review-on-1-february/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/26/nhs-gp-practice-operator-with-500000-patients-passes-into-hands-of-us-health-insurer

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/37-nhs-gp-practices-have-been-sold-to-a-private-us-health-company-heres-what-it-means-3172193

 

58 practices out of nearly 7000 across the UK...   So probably totally unrelated. 

[Ootohere]

This is my chuckle of the day from a serious matter.  The Minister for Levelling Up & hypocrisy. 

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/michael-gove-yelled-scab-picket-16239327

http://mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/picture-emerges-of-tory-strike-basher-1683961

 

 

 

Edited 28 June, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

53 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

My understanding of the shortage is that it is partly due to the fact that many medics want to specialise in a particular field rather than being an all round generalist, the latter being what GPS need to be. 

Don't forget as of 2019 over 20,000 NHS staff from the EU left the UK. Visas etc has made working in the UK much more difficult. 

SWMBO still does work for a University Teaching Hospital and numbers of people coming from the EU to train in the UK has dropped (I'm not sure by how much, I'd have to ask her). Many of those went on to continue working in the NHS.

The point being that there is a shortage of NHS staff and those that are left have to cover for those no longer in the NHS.

 

Some gifts just keep on giving.

Edited 28 June, 2022 by @Lee

[skomaz]

16 minutes ago, @Lee said:

Don't forget as of 2019 over 20,000 NHS staff from the EU left the UK. Visas etc has made working in the UK much more difficult. 

SWMBO still does work for a University Teaching Hospital and numbers of people coming from the EU to train in the UK has dropped (I'm not sure by how much, I'd have to ask her). Many of those went on to continue working in the NHS.

The point being that there is a shortage of NHS staff and those that are left have to cover for those no longer in the NHS.

 

Some gifts just keep on giving.

 

But the discussion was about GP shortages not the overall NHS numbers?  If you have those they would be more relevant...   

 

Not that I disagree with your general point about the numbers of NHS staff having reduced, regardless of reason. 

[KenONeill]

I changed address about 15 months ago. 2 weeks ago I physically met and spoke to my GP for the first time ever, because he had to do a home visit to my mother.

[AnnoyingPentium]

6 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I changed address about 15 months ago. 2 weeks ago I physically met and spoke to my GP for the first time ever, because he had to do a home visit to my mother.

 

I only found out recently that my GP had retired in 2012.

[J.R.]

5 hours ago, Aspman said:

would you like to do a tough, all weathers job that will only last for a few weeks and during which you'll either have to stay on site in a rancid caravan?

 

That's exactly what I have chosen to do and not for a few weeks, this will be for several years, working long hours 7 days a week (23.30 here and I have just finished and cooked my evening meal in my not so rancid caravan) and also unpaid so no point in striking!

 

After the last 2 years I am as happy as a pig in ****!

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

That's exactly what I have chosen to do and not for a few weeks, this will be for several years, working long hours 7 days a week (23.30 here and I have just finished and cooked my evening meal in my not so rancid caravan) and also unpaid so no point in striking!

 

After the last 2 years I am as happy as a pig in ****!

I believe you are self employed JR.

Apparently there is a union you can join if you don't like your working terms and conditions.

https://community-tu.org/can-you-join-a-union-if-youre-self-employed/#7689d16d

 

Edited 28 June, 2022 by @Lee

[J.R.]

I'm afraid you are trying to entice the wrong person into your movement.

 

My boss is the tightest person I know and is highly critical of everything I create, he would never pay me for what I do and would sack me if I joined a union.