Is it worth to repair? 4 Injectors gone, high pressure fuel pump, probably engine compression issues...

[Client76]

Hi, never believed it can go so wrong... Took my car to a dealer for checking up as car got really jerky for about last 7 days.. Ended up with a €3000 quotation for repair works. Decided it's a rip off, but another independant garage slowly but surely following same path...  Can't figure out how it went wrong so badly - regular driving nothing extreme.. Ok, car has eco, normal & sport mode, using these modes depending on situation and  my mood, can't believe any of these modes can make such a damage to engine. Was told it happens because of poor diesel quality. Can it be true? Some people sugguesting me just replace the engine - it would be cheper at the end - I don't really want to do that tho.. (Is that even legal?)  

I'm not a guru in the cars in general (basic things only), tried to search by myself for parts like injectors, fuel pumps, have no clue in to what I'm looking... But these parts in general are quite expensive. I know you not going to fix that for me, but wondering did I missed something, maybe there are interesting solutions (like "any garage don't want to you to know this").. Any ideas? Even thinking is it worth to fix it, maybe replacement of an engine actually good idea? How common these problems are, or I'm here alone with my bad luck?.. 

 

Skoda Octavia 2017, 7 speed auto, 1.6L TDI A 110 PS Sel 

[Ootohere]

How many km has your car done?

When was it last serviced & by who?

 

What is actually wrong with the car? 

 Well what are they actually saying other than possible nonsense.

 

Really poor quality diesel!

 Do you buy it from some farm or filling stations? 

 

?

Is it maybe Diesel in the Oil because of issues with Regens? 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/505743-oil-level-is-this-possible

 

Edited 27 July, 2022 by roottoot

[Client76]

How many km has your car done? 

A bit over 167000km

 

When was it last serviced & by who?

05 July 2021, 136000km by Skoda dealer

 

What is actually wrong with the car? 

Engine misfire. Visited dealer to figure out what is that. (Never had diesel before, so wasn't familiar) So they servised (July 2021) gave me bottle additive tu put in the tank and said you should befine. I was fine for about 15000km, just until oil change. It started misfire again. So changed oil (nd something else related), got same botle again. Asked why I should pour it every time? they said if it helps, just don't bother yourself - pour it. I asked again: I want to eliminate problem, not to hide... It would be expensive and probably unnescesary, they answered. Ok...

Now again just before oil chnge (in 15000km) symptoms came back, but stronger. Car got jerky not only when cold, but always. Cold engine was really hard speed up from 0 to ~20km/h, then 2-50km/h it was jerky, but not extremely bad.  With these symptoms I limite my driving just to work-home qhich is 10 min driving trough town and 15min on highway. On higway 95km/h was my sweet point almost no jerking. Driving in town, gears changing bit too late, I started to change them manually to avoid hig revs. (for me high revs is about 2.500rpm) when acclerating from standstill the clicking noise appears. foot away the accelerator - clicking (banging?) noise gone. (I had same noise with my very old ptrol car by the way). 

So I headed to dealer with these symptoms. In a few hours they come back to me with news listed in the first post + they want relace timing belt, which in general OK for me. I had plans to do it in about 200000km as dealer recommended year ago. Also they said driving the car now is dangerous as it can completely damage engine and forced me to start repairs. Only coled down when I said Ok fix it, but don't have 3000 in my pocket right now...

I drove away to the private garage 5km away. There is different story. They said only one injector is gone, but today they found that it can be all 4 and engine compression must be checked. Nothing about high Pressure fuel pump, by the way.

I don't know what to trust....

 

Well what are they actually saying other than possible nonsense.

Possible, beause any of these symptoms about faulty fuel pump doesn't apply to me.. Any.

 

Really poor quality diesel!

 Do you buy it from some farm or filling stations? 

For years same single fuel station. Ocasionally somwhere else on the long trips. Circle K. But I never heard that diesel quality in Ireland is good. Never ever heard that. Everyone hate Irish diesel..

[Client76]

Diesel in the Oil

And I am not sure about it... have to read more here. I definetly not a guru in cars.. 😞 But fan sometimes humming like a boeing when I leave car parked. Not always. Sometimes fan really quite and stops shortly..

[ApertureS]

Where are you based out of interest?

id be looking at getting someone else to look at it, someone that specialises in diesel even.

 

if it’s misfiring then fine it has a fault and yes if you keep driving it you can cause even more damage.

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Diesel in oil = DPF regen issues

 

Not always the cause but was a sign of issues in older/different brands.

Edited 28 July, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[Client76]

55 minutes ago, ApertureS said:

Where are you based out of interest?

id be looking at getting someone else to look at it, someone that specialises in diesel even.

 

if it’s misfiring then fine it has a fault and yes if you keep driving it you can cause even more damage.

 

 

I'm based in Republic of Ireland, County Kerry. 

And I'm really afraid of driving, car sitting for a week now in the local garage (not a dealer garage) 25km from my home.. 

 

By the way car didn't give any errors (on the dash) even that most popular engine light.. Is that normal? No DPF error, nothing.. 

[Ootohere]

OK.

Your op said you took it to a dealer so i assumed a Skoda / VW Approved repairer.  So it is at a garage. 

 

Your fuel certainly should be good, you are in the EU and the fuel is imported just as for everyplace else. 

 

You do need the car to someone that knows your actual type of engine.

[Client76]

I think I have mentioned I took car of official Skoda dealer garage as I cannot afford to pay that amount for repairs, and co-workers suguested way cheaper independant (private) garage to fix car way cheaper (they all fixing theyr car there). So the car at the moment is not in the Skoda garage... And I have to chace that private garage by phone everyday with, "hi, what's the story".. for a week now. Just because I don't want to use a car in that condition. Otherwise, it would be better to drive it home (about 25km trip) and wait until I can to repair the car (15km to official garage).  

So, yes, I agree I need someone with a good reputation to check my car, that's the fact. But I can't drive the car 😄 stupid loop 🙃 Private garage hopefully give me updates today in relation to rest 3 injectors - they bringing them to check on some kind of special machine 🤔 And they're appears to be concerned with engine compression. Haha new issue found here! I have watched tons of videos on how to replace injector, I think I would be able to replace injectors by myself in two days (20min job for pro 😃) but I don't have a tools and place..

[Ootohere]

?

How much money do they want for their diagnosis so far? 

 

Is the car ready to be driven away? 

[Client76]

Official garage quoted €3000 for ready to drive again car repairs, i took the car of them.

 

Private garage didn't gave me a full quotation, but expected to save about €1000. Have changed one injector, car is not fixed. Injector price quotation 260 (instead of 450 in skoda garage).

[EnterName]

9 minutes ago, Client76 said:

Official garage quoted €3000 for ready to drive again car repairs, i took the car of them.

Did you get a written quotation of what you were getting for your 3K euros?

[Client76]

54 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Did you get a written quotation of what you were getting for your 3K euros?

2 injectors, high pressure fuel pump, timing belt and labour. 🤔

[EnterName]

1 hour ago, Client76 said:

2 injectors, high pressure fuel pump, timing belt and labour. 🤔

Some (very) rough maths.

 

High pressure fuel pump is between £500-£600

Injectors seem to vary wildly in price, £150-£300+ with VAT on top, depending on whether you go and which brand you choose.

Timing belt (with water pump kit) is what, around £200

 

So that's certainly over £1000+ in parts, but let's limit it to £1000 to be conservative for this exercise.

Multiply by 1.9 for (very) rough conversion to Euros =  €1900 in parts. (Maybe more, maybe less.)

Labour is about £60-£80/hour, which is €114-€152. (At same 1.9x rate)

Call it €130 an hour.

 

€3000-€1900 = €1100 labour cost, or a little over 8.4 hours work at €130 (9.6 hours at €114, 7.2 hours at €152)

 

It's a lot of money, but from my Googling and fairly conservative maths, I'm not smelling a rat here, especially as I've been conservative with the part costs.

I can imagine knocking 25%-35% off that labour cost at an independent, but the parts may be more or less than the numbers I got from Google.

The question is, does all that work need doing? An expert diagnosis of the problem is needed.

Regarding who does the repair work; if you get an independent to do the work, and they don't solve the problem, will they work at no extra cost to resolve the problem? (That should go for the Skoda dealer too.)

Not sure what to suggest, TBH.

Edited 28 July, 2022 by EnterName
typos

[Ootohere]

^^^

Good work.

 

The one thing i know is that 'another engine' as mentioned in the OP would be a no no.

 

That would be like buying a lottery ticket and a fully dressed 'Used engine' might be worse than what is in the car which might not have much wrong, 

and an engine that needed parts swapped over or replaced and the likes of a cam belt changed is costing money anyway. 

[The1effect]

 Don't think that you can replace any injector by yourself, even with step by step you tube tutorials if you don't have experience in that domain. You have to torque at specified values or disaster, also after every injector/ injectors changed a flush must be done to entire fuel system. If more than one injector goes wrong in a short time the cause is something else usually hight pressure pump is getting bad.

 My advice to you is to check the fuel filter if you haven't changed yet, open the cap and look with a flush-light  for sparkling tiny metal particles, this are from highpressureprump and it destroys everything in the system including all injectors. 
Getting another engine in my opinion is not worthing the risk , either repair it or sell 

Edited 28 July, 2022 by The1effect

[Client76]

3 hours ago, EnterName said:

Some (very) rough maths.

 

High pressure fuel pump is between £500-£600

Injectors seem to vary wildly in price, £150-£300+ with VAT on top, depending on whether you go and which brand you choose.

Timing belt (with water pump kit) is what, around £200

 

So that's certainly over £1000+ in parts, but let's limit it to £1000 to be conservative for this exercise.

Multiply by 1.9 for (very) rough conversion to Euros =  €1900 in parts. (Maybe more, maybe less.)

Labour is about £60-£80/hour, which is €114-€152. (At same 1.9x rate)

Call it €130 an hour.

 

€3000-€1900 = €1100 labour cost, or a little over 8.4 hours work at €130 (9.6 hours at €114, 7.2 hours at €152)

 

It's a lot of money, but from my Googling and fairly conservative maths, I'm not smelling a rat here, especially as I've been conservative with the part costs.

I can imagine knocking 25%-35% off that labour cost at an independent, but the parts may be more or less than the numbers I got from Google.

The question is, does all that work need doing? An expert diagnosis of the problem is needed.

Regarding who does the repair work; if you get an independent to do the work, and they don't solve the problem, will they work at no extra cost to resolve the problem? (That should go for the Skoda dealer too.)

Not sure what to suggest, TBH.

That's my biggest fear, if something in independent garage goes wrong, I then going to pay again.. Fingers crossed now.. 

I'm amazed by your calculations by the way - thats impressive! 

I think a official dealer garage don't want to bother much, so they just going to replace everything what on the way.. I still can't believe I need a high pressure fuel pump. All research online suguest that pump is ok. Dealer don't care about it if they want to replace pump it is good opportunity to replace timing belt too. 

So I won't let change my timing belt (for now) and fuel pump as I believe she is ok. Only 4 injectors left. Will see do I win or loose with my decision... 🤔 

 

I know it is impossible suggest something unless we have realyy fat wallet 😄 (Aka money talks) I'll keep you updated on how things will go for me if you interested. If O forgot - knock here and I remember 🥴 

 

And really big thanks for ideas, suggestions and estimated costs. That's really helped me to get better view of my situation 👍

 

[EnterName]

Just now, Client76 said:

That's my biggest fear, if something in independent garage goes wrong, I then going to pay again.. Fingers crossed now.. 

I'm amazed by your calculations by the way - thats impressive! 

Glad you found them useful. 👍

We always make the best decisions with the information we have at the time, so whatever you decide is the best way forward for you, good luck! 🤞

[Client76]

3 hours ago, EnterName said:

Some (very) rough maths.

 

High pressure fuel pump is between £500-£600

Injectors seem to vary wildly in price, £150-£300+ with VAT on top, depending on whether you go and which brand you choose.

Timing belt (with water pump kit) is what, around £200

 

So that's certainly over £1000+ in parts, but let's limit it to £1000 to be conservative for this exercise.

Multiply by 1.9 for (very) rough conversion to Euros =  €1900 in parts. (Maybe more, maybe less.)

Labour is about £60-£80/hour, which is €114-€152. (At same 1.9x rate)

Call it €130 an hour.

 

€3000-€1900 = €1100 labour cost, or a little over 8.4 hours work at €130 (9.6 hours at €114, 7.2 hours at €152)

 

It's a lot of money, but from my Googling and fairly conservative maths, I'm not smelling a rat here, especially as I've been conservative with the part costs.

I can imagine knocking 25%-35% off that labour cost at an independent, but the parts may be more or less than the numbers I got from Google.

The question is, does all that work need doing? An expert diagnosis of the problem is needed.

Regarding who does the repair work; if you get an independent to do the work, and they don't solve the problem, will they work at no extra cost to resolve the problem? (That should go for the Skoda dealer too.)

Not sure what to suggest, TBH.

Dealer asked €1400 for fuel pump, about €430 for a single injector.. I've looked for any hp fuel pump, as I have no clue what kind of I need for my car and I didn't managed to find something more expensive than 1000. 400-800 euro is all I found.

[J.R.]

€1.9 = £1 is way way off the mark, it has never ever been anywhere near that figure.

 

It has sat comfortably at or around €1.20 = £1 for several years and is at that exact figure today.

[EnterName]

2 minutes ago, Client76 said:

Dealer asked €1400 for fuel pump, about €430 for a single injector.. I've looked for any hp fuel pump, as I have no clue what kind of I need for my car and I didn't managed to find something more expensive than 1000. 400-800 euro is all I found.

Argh! I think I might have been miles out on my conversion rate, that or my brain has now had enough maths for one day.

Using DukDuckGo 1 euro is 0.84 today. So adjusting my maths and your numbers,

Fuel pump €1400 = £1176.

Injectors €430 * 2 = £722.40

Bung in the £200-ish water pump kit with cam belt, and we're still in the same ballpark of around £2k for parts alone.

 

[EnterName]

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

€1.9 = £1 is way way off the mark, it has never ever been anywhere near that figure.

 

It has sat comfortably at or around €1.20 = £1 for several years and is at that exact figure today.

Yes, I just double-checked and you're quite right.

It's 1 euro = 1.19 pounds, not 1.9.

I should have gone to spec-savers.

Perversely, I'm still in the ball park at around £2K in parts. But yes, always a good idea to double-check my maths.

[J.R.]

You had me googling in excitement for a while though, I am currently selling my UK property and will be transferring the funds into Euros.

[Ecomatt]

Has the fuel filter been changed at all? If not it might be blocked causing a reduction in fuel pressure. Always try the simple solutions first.

[Cap44]

As Ecomatt says, Change the filter & look for metal in the bowl, If clear get the actual fuel pressure checked. Any Competent diesel guy can do that even in Kerry !!!

I used to live in Derry nane on The Ring