Monte Front Brakes

[D15VRS]

Hi, my son has recently purchased another Skoda, his 4th now. 

He is looking to change the front 256mm brakes to the larger 288/312mm caliper carrier set up. 

Is this simply changing the knuckle, hub and the new caliper carrier set up or more involved? What donor vehicle should we be looking at? I.e does mk1 fabia stuff fit, mk4 golf etc. 

Thanks in advance 

[sepulchrave]

Most of the VAG group stuff will fit but you'll probably need a complete pair of front struts, I believe 2WD Audi TT front struts would already have the 312's as standard and would probably be the simplest swap.

[DieselMonte]

Front Knuckles off a fabia that came with 288mm brakes would be best

If there are any breaking near you you'd probably be best to get the whole lot including brakes from one of them.

[D15VRS]

2 hours ago, DieselMonte said:

Front Knuckles off a fabia that came with 288mm brakes would be best

If there are any breaking near you you'd probably be best to get the whole lot including brakes from one of them.

Thanks to both for the answers, in regards to fabia knuckles, are we talking both mk1 and mk2, or were they different? 

 

[thomasaspin]

1 hour ago, D15VRS said:

Thanks to both for the answers, in regards to fabia knuckles, are we talking both mk1 and mk2, or were they different? 

 

Audi TT 312mm callipers are the best route they fit on the standard 5j hubs and all you need is the bigger disks and pads and your away and the standard alloys still fit 

[DieselMonte]

6 hours ago, D15VRS said:

Thanks to both for the answers, in regards to fabia knuckles, are we talking both mk1 and mk2, or were they different? 

 

Mk1 fabia vrs knuckles should fit but your best bet is to get one from a mk2 fabia as they'll 100% fit. Came on a few mk2 fabias not just the vrs, 105hp monte carlos also came with them. And I know for a fact 105hp 1.6tdi normal fabias have 288mm front brakes.

 

 

As for sourcing the hardware for 312mm brakes, mk1 audi tt as Thomas says or Mk1 octavia vRS are your best bets.

[DieselMonte]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433716326868923/permalink/3211379825769222/?sale_post_id=3211379825769222

Speak of the devil

Full 312mm setup for sale.

 

[D15VRS]

Thanks for the help guys, iv seen a few mk2 fabia's with the 288mm so il look around for them. 

[UrbanPanzer]

if its a Monte (as per topic title), does it not already have 288mm brakes ?

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, UrbanPanzer said:

if its a Monte (as per topic title), does it not already have 288mm brakes ?

 

The Monte is just a trim level. The size of the brakes will depend on the engine. However, the most reliable way to find the size of the brakes is to look at the car's build codes.

 

If you look on autodoc at Jurid brakes (who seem to be one of the few brands that actually knows what size brakes are fitted to various cars), it appears that the Fabia MK2 has 288mm front brake discs when the engine has at least 105HP. Less power, such as 90HP, and the front brake discs are only 256mm. The lowest powered 1.2 6v petrol 60HP (NOT the 1.2 petrol 12v 60HP engine which uses 288mm front brake discs) uses even smaller 239mm front brake discs.

 

As you can see below, 105HP gets 288mm front brakes. Less than 105HP gets 256mm front brakes, except 1.2 petrol 6v 60HP gets 239mm front brakes, but the 1.2 petrol 12v 60HP gets 256mm front brakes.

 

Fabia MK2 1.2 petrol 6v 60HP (NOT 1.2 petrol 12v 60HP) 239mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/22944-1-2?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.2 petrol 12v 60HP 256mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/9409-1-2-12v?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.2 petrol 86HP 256mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/33311-1-2-tsi?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.4 petrol 86HP 256mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/22946-1-4?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.6 diesel 90HP 256mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/33314-1-6-tdi?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.2 petrol 105HP 288mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/33243-1-2-tsi?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.6 diesel 105HP 288mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/33315-1-6-tdi?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Fabia MK2 1.9 diesel 105HP 288mm front brakes

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/brake-disc-10132/skoda/fabia/fabia-2006/22950-1-9-tdi?supplier[0]=48&criteria[100][1]=VA

 

Edited 2 August, 2022 by Carlston

[UrbanPanzer]

aware monte is a "trim" level, although it was a special edition, and I would think "most" that were sold were 1.6 TDi's ,hence assuming on my part (correctly or incorrectly) it would have 288mm front discs. If im honest did not know they offered 2 power outputs for the TDi either until I just looked at the brochure, everyday a school day as they say.

 

Stating to use the cars build codes does not help "jo public" much as they mean nothing to most people, and it's not easy to see what they do mean either.

 

To be honest, measuring the discs is just as easy. 😀

Edited 2 August, 2022 by UrbanPanzer

[Carlston]

25 minutes ago, UrbanPanzer said:

Stating to use the cars build codes does not help "jo public" much as they mean nothing to most people, and its not easy to see what they do mean either.

 

If you were working in the factory building the Fabia MK2 and your job was to fit the front brakes, you would look at the car's build codes. A build code has 3-digits, and is needed so that the correct option can be selected. A car might have around 180 build codes, that tell the factory workers all the options that are fitted and all the options that are not fitted. Such options might be what engine is fitted, what gearbox is fitted, whether the car has air-conditioning, what colour paint to spray the car, what radio to fit in the car, what wheels to fit to the car, whether the car has a sunroof, whether the car has a towbar, in fact everything that varies on that particular model.

 

Considering that most people can easily be trained to work on a factory assembly line, it's not a difficult concept.

 

If you were a factory worker that was fitting the front brakes, you wouldn't need to know all the car's build codes. Just the build code for the front brakes so that you could fit the correct part. A build code is precise, as it can only mean one thing. And as the car goes along the production line, it gets fitted with all the correct parts.

 

Build codes for front brakes on the Fabia MK2

1LM 239mm front discs

1LQ 256mm front discs

1LN 288mm front discs

1LP 288mm front discs (with green brake calipers)

1ZD 288mm front discs (with red brake calipers)

 

Edited 2 August, 2022 by Carlston

[UrbanPanzer]

I'm not sure I follow the relevance to being a factory worker and using the build codes.................unless im missing something. ?

 

I was referring to "jo public" as in ................mr average Fabia owner.

 

When you look at the build sticker in the boot of your Fabia showing the list of codes, to "most" people, it's jibberish, means nothing.

Be nice if there was a published list of them people could refer / compare their vehicles to.

 

[Breezy_Pete]

VAG Codes (vag-codes.info)

 

Link within link https://vag-codes.info/vag-option-codes

 

A lot of the definitions are too vague to be useful alone,, but in the context of the pages of ETKA, they can pin down what's what via the 'data model' column where they appear.

Edited 2 August, 2022 by Breezy_Pete

[UrbanPanzer]

Good link there Pete, especially the PDF download showing them all.

 

Think it should be at the top as a sticky in each forum.

[Breezy_Pete]

Trouble often is that the relevant PR code isn't on the sticker, especially front brakes.

[D15VRS]

Before I go ahead and pull the trigger, I have managed to locate a mk2 fabia vrs being broken, they have the complete knuckle hub and bearing as well as the 288mm caliper and carrier. All I would need to do is purchase is new discs and pads. Could anyone confirm that this will fit the Monte Carlo 100 with the 256mm discs as stock? 

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, D15VRS said:

Before I go ahead and pull the trigger, I have managed to locate a mk2 fabia vrs being broken, they have the complete knuckle hub and bearing as well as the 288mm caliper and carrier. All I would need to do is purchase is new discs and pads. Could anyone confirm that this will fit the Monte Carlo 100 with the 256mm discs as stock? 

 

What OEM part number does the left brake caliper have? Being from the Fabia VRS it will probably be either 6Q0615123 (TRW brake system) or 1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers). The 1K0615123E and 1K0615123M are the same calipers except for the paint colour.

 

As you can see below, there are three possible options for the left brake caliper that the 288mm front brake discs use.

 

I could have used the right brake caliper OEM part number instead of the left brake caliper to identify the brake system, but I normally use the left.

 

The TRW brake system for 288mm front discs is listed up to the Fabia MK2 2010 model year, whereas the ATE brake system for the 288mm front discs is listed from the Fabia MK2 2011 model year.

 

Fabia MK2 OEM part number 288mm front brake discs left brake caliper OEM part number

6Q0615123 (TRW brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2010-608/6/615-615025/

1K0615123E (ATE brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615025/

1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615030/

 

As you can see in the two photos below, it's easy to identify whether the brake calipers are part of the TRW or ATE brake system on the 288mm front discs. 

 

TRW brake calipers (up to and including the 2010 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/6q0615123?search=OEN+6Q0615123&supplier[0]=3&supplier[1]=833

 

ATE brake calipers (from the 2011 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1k0615123m?search=OEN+1K0615123M&supplier[0]=833&supplier[1]=3

 

The brake pads for the TRW brake system are available with either the wear warning contact or without the wear warning contact, whereas the brake pads for the ATE brake system are only available with the wear warning contact.

 

Edited 3 August, 2022 by Carlston

[D15VRS]

2 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

What OEM part number does the left brake caliper have? Being from the Fabia VRS it will probably be either 6Q0615123 (TRW brake system) or 1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers). The 1K0615123E and 1K0615123M are the same calipers except for the paint colour.

 

As you can see below, there are three possible options for the left brake caliper that the 288mm front brake discs use.

 

I could have used the right brake caliper OEM part number instead of the left brake caliper to identify the brake system, but I normally use the left.

 

The TRW brake system for 288mm front discs is listed up to the Fabia MK2 2010 model year, whereas the ATE brake system for the 288mm front discs is listed from the Fabia MK2 2011 model year.

 

Fabia MK2 OEM part number 288mm front brake discs left brake caliper OEM part number

6Q0615123 (TRW brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2010-608/6/615-615025/

1K0615123E (ATE brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615025/

1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615030/

 

As you can see in the two photos below, it's easy to identify whether the brake calipers are part of the TRW or ATE brake system on the 288mm front discs. 

 

TRW brake calipers (up to and including the 2010 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/6q0615123?search=OEN+6Q0615123&supplier[0]=3&supplier[1]=833

 

ATE brake calipers (from the 2011 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1k0615123m?search=OEN+1K0615123M&supplier[0]=833&supplier[1]=3

 

The brake pads for the TRW brake system are available with either the wear warning contact or without the wear warning contact, whereas the brake pads for the ATE brake system are only available with the wear warning contact.

 

Hi, thanks for the information, 

The calipers are ATE from at fabia vrs 2011 cave engine. 

[Carlston]

57 minutes ago, D15VRS said:

Hi, thanks for the information, 

The calipers are ATE from at fabia vrs 2011 cave engine. 

 

The Fabia MK2 VRS will have red brake calipers. If you want refurbished brake calipers at a later date, they tend to be the silver colour, so you might want to look at the 288mm brakes on the other Fabia MK2 cars that use them. Also, there might be a price premium on Fabia MK2 VRS brakes. Fabia MK2 cars with at least 105PS will use the 288mm front brakes, at least according to Jurid brakes.

 

288mm front brakes ATE

1.2 TSI 77 kW

2010–2014

CBZB (EA111)

1197 ccm, I4, 8V, OHC, TSI, turbocharged

77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp) at 5000 rpm

175 Nm. (129 lb•ft) at 1500–4100

5-speed manual (MQ200), FWD

191 km/h (119 mph)

10.1

5.3 / 53.3 / 44.4

124

 

288mm front brakes ATE (with red brake calipers)

1.4 TSI 132 kW (RS)

2010–2014

CAVE (EA111)

1390 ccm, I4, 16V, DOHC, TSI, twincharged

132 kW (180 PS;176 hp ) at 6200 rpm

250 Nm. (184 lb•ft) at 2000–4500 rpm

7-speed automatic (DQ200), FWD

224 km/h (139 mph)

7.3

6.2 / 45.6 / 37.9

148

 

288mm front brakes ATE

1.2 TSI 77 kW

2010–2014

CBZB (EA111)

1197 ccm, I4, 8V, OHC, TSI, turbocharged

77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp) at 5000 rpm

175 Nm. (129 lb•ft) at 1500–4100

7-speed automatic (DQ200), FWD

189 km/h (117 mph)

10.2

5.3 / 53.3 / 44.4

124

 

288mm front brakes ATE

1.6 TDI CR DPF 77 kW

2010–2014

CAYC (EA189)

1598 ccm, I4, 16V, DOHC, common-rail, turbocharged

77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp) at 4400 rpm

250 Nm. (184 lb•ft) at 1500–2500 rpm

5-speed manual (MQ250), FWD

188 km/h (117 mph)

10.9

4.2 / 67.3 / 56.0

109

 

288mm front brakes TRW

1.9 TDI PD 77 kW

2007–2010

BSW (EA188)

1896 ccm, I4, 8V SOHC, Pumpe-Düse, turbocharged

77 kW (105 PS; 103 hp) at 4000 rpm

240 Nm. (177 lb•ft) at 1900 rpm

5-speed manual (MQ250), FWD

190 km/h (118 mph)

10.8

5.0 / 56.5 / 47.0

130

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Fabia#Engines_2

 

Edited 3 August, 2022 by Carlston

[D15VRS]

4 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

What OEM part number does the left brake caliper have? Being from the Fabia VRS it will probably be either 6Q0615123 (TRW brake system) or 1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers). The 1K0615123E and 1K0615123M are the same calipers except for the paint colour.

 

As you can see below, there are three possible options for the left brake caliper that the 288mm front brake discs use.

 

I could have used the right brake caliper OEM part number instead of the left brake caliper to identify the brake system, but I normally use the left.

 

The TRW brake system for 288mm front discs is listed up to the Fabia MK2 2010 model year, whereas the ATE brake system for the 288mm front discs is listed from the Fabia MK2 2011 model year.

 

Fabia MK2 OEM part number 288mm front brake discs left brake caliper OEM part number

6Q0615123 (TRW brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2010-608/6/615-615025/

1K0615123E (ATE brake system)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615025/

1K0615123M (ATE brake system with red brake calipers)

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2011-697/6/615-615030/

 

As you can see in the two photos below, it's easy to identify whether the brake calipers are part of the TRW or ATE brake system on the 288mm front discs. 

 

TRW brake calipers (up to and including the 2010 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/6q0615123?search=OEN+6Q0615123&supplier[0]=3&supplier[1]=833

 

ATE brake calipers (from the 2011 model year on the Fabia MK2)

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1k0615123m?search=OEN+1K0615123M&supplier[0]=833&supplier[1]=3

 

The brake pads for the TRW brake system are available with either the wear warning contact or without the wear warning contact, whereas the brake pads for the ATE brake system are only available with the wear warning contact.

The calipers are originally red, it looks like the owner has tried to make them green, il be painting them black, as with the drums. 

Here is the link I have found - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284919779586?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7zmgeipqstq&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=GdsvBrkfQtC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[rum4mo]

A different/newer car, but I have noticed that any of the usual sellers of brake parts to the DIYer market, only sell pads that have wear sensors for the ATE callipers - for my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS which does not have any brake wear stuff when supplied into the UK market, it always seems a shame to need to chop off these sensor wires when in the past pad kits without wear sensors were always slightly cheaper than pad kits that did have wear sensors, which makes sense.  Maybe with time, and I don't need new pads yet, versions without wear sensors will appear in the aftermarket, that 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS was fitted with Jurid branded pads at the factory.

[Carlston]

3 hours ago, rum4mo said:

A different/newer car, but I have noticed that any of the usual sellers of brake parts to the DIYer market, only sell pads that have wear sensors for the ATE callipers - for my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS which does not have any brake wear stuff when supplied into the UK market, it always seems a shame to need to chop off these sensor wires when in the past pad kits without wear sensors were always slightly cheaper than pad kits that did have wear sensors, which makes sense.  Maybe with time, and I don't need new pads yet, versions without wear sensors will appear in the aftermarket, that 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS was fitted with Jurid branded pads at the factory.

 

The Fabia MK3 1.2 turbo petrol 110PS uses 288mm front brake discs, at least according to Jurid.

 

Front brake pads for these discs aren't listed without the wear indicator in the Skoda parts catalogue.

 

If you can get the OEM part number of the original brake pads, you might be able to find aftermarket ones without the wear indicator by searching autodoc for that OEM part number.

 

Edited 3 August, 2022 by Carlston

[rum4mo]

I'll have the pad kit VW Group part number so I could try that.

[D15VRS]

On 02/08/2022 at 01:59, DieselMonte said:

Mk1 fabia vrs knuckles should fit but your best bet is to get one from a mk2 fabia as they'll 100% fit. Came on a few mk2 fabias not just the vrs, 105hp monte carlos also came with them. And I know for a fact 105hp 1.6tdi normal fabias have 288mm front brakes.

 

 

As for sourcing the hardware for 312mm brakes, mk1 audi tt as Thomas says or Mk1 octavia vRS are your best bets.

Would the knuckles from a mk2 vrs a monte? The shock absorbers will most likely be the same, the only thing I'm banging my head against is if the drive shafts are different as dsg and manual.