New battery time, recommendations?

[Sheriff]

That's a fair point. To be fair, I got another 10 months out if after the stop/start packed up and it only lasted 3 months less than the the two Octys I've had previously

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

4 hours ago, Sheriff said:

That's a fair point. To be fair, I got another 10 months out if after the stop/start packed up and it only lasted 3 months less than the the two Octys I've had previously

The trick is to charge the battery before the start/stop packs in and fully recharge the battery as soon as the start/stop, er, stops often this will require more than just driving the vehicle but the use of a suitable battery charger left on long enough to fully charge the battery not just a wham, bam, thank you mam.  😄

 

Perhaps you could have got longer (or even lot longer) out of all three batteries by recharging them sooner.  😉 😄  

 

I know it's not always convenient to do the job properly. I wanted to recharge the 18 month old AGM battery on my wife's car this weekend because it does lots of very short journeys, is always parked outside (we're not wealthy enough to have a garage just hard-luck standing) and it's -1.7c now and IIRC we've seen -13c (without wind chill factor) before.  If it doesn't need much it doesn't matter as my latest (and newest by 20+ years) charger is also a maintainer, has a winter setting and works to -20c and is IP65 (£23.49) so it can work outside.

 

My wife is keen to get it done as only this week she had to use the keyblade to get into the car as the remote battery died and this set the car alarm off and she'd forgotten the procedure to get over this - get the key in ignition and switched on quick!  But then I forgot and set the alarm off when synchronising the remote after battery change and forgot you had to pull and hold the handle to get the keyblade to operate properly as I didn't follow my own advice and RtFM because I was being a Billy-big-b*ll*cks that thought he already knew.  😜  But wot a palaver VW want to put owners through and they say the German don't have sense of humour. 😄

 

[Micky 32]

Did a conductance test on my original 5 years and 10 month old 680A Varta AGM battery.

 

The result is it’s now down to 350A. SOH is 26%. “Replace” The car gets well driven and has clocked 160,000 miles in that time.

 

Amazingly it still starts the diesel engine after a -5 degree night, abeit sounding a little sluggish but it has sounded like that for the last couple of years.

 

However a few symptoms. The start stop works less in the lower temps. The car will cut out at the lights but the engine will re start after about 15 secs with “ power consumption too high” message. Anything above 5 degrees it works flawlessly. If i go into VCDS toolbox i can get the reason why the car restarted after 15 secs “ SOC low” despite driving 40 miles of charging.

 

Other things, errors flash on the dash briefly on a cold morning start. I also get data bus and insufficient voltage codes in VCDS. 
 

Once temps are over 6 or 7 degrees start stop works flawlessly and no error codes. According to vcds my battery resistance reads between 7-8 m ohms depending on temperature. I believe a good AGM battery should be 3-4 m ohms.

 

Sorry for the boring post lol

[J.R.]

I never knew that there was a measuring block for battery resistance, is it reliable?

 

et will be quicker and easier than using my electronic battery tester which I find gives pessimistic results if the battery is still connected to the vehicle.

 

Using VCDS will be quicker and I wont lose the clockand window  settings etc.

[Micky 32]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

I never knew that there was a measuring block for battery resistance, is it reliable?

 

et will be quicker and easier than using my electronic battery tester which I find gives pessimistic results if the battery is still connected to the vehicle.

 

Using VCDS will be quicker and I wont lose the clockand window  settings etc.

i can’t say for sure if it’s reliable. Lower temps does seem to rise it a bit in vcds.  But it’s been rising gradually over the last few years. My battery is in the boot. To get the most accurate reading with a tester i leave the boot open and i then lock the car and wait 20 ish minutes for everything to shut down.( boot light turns off) 

Edited 10 December, 2022 by Micky 32

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

2 hours ago, Micky 32 said:

Sorry for the boring post lol

Not to me. 😄

 

Have you done any full battery recharges with an appropriate battery charger or just driving the car as you do so many miles?

 

I'm all for getting as much out of the battery as possible but some do seem to drive them into the ground, and without ceremony.  🙂

 

Personally I don't run a battery too low and never would attempt to on a modern VW (or other German marques) because of their evil computer programs, particular VW.  You are covered more than most as you can clear any stored or building codes but for those without they can gang up.

 

Personally any electronics I'm wary of when it gets cold as they often don't like it but I feared to question the glorious VCDS as it usually has very loyal supporters.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Micky 32 said:

My battery is in the boot. To get the most accurate reading with a tester i leave the boot open and i then lock the car and wait 20 ish minutes for everything to shut down.( boot light turns off) 

Do you know for sure if 20 minutes is long enough and everything turns off, I know some posters have used cheap or second hand monitoring systems that record the car's electrical activity when used and parked up, I've no idea how long a 2017 VW would be awake or doing stuff with itself after being parked but would be curious as my wife has a 2015 VW product (I know different marque, model and year, just interested).

 

I got the new charger/maintainer on my wife's car on it's return about 5.30pm today to our hard (luck) standing, only about -0.5c outside then so well within the -20c operating temperature (and this summer we had 40.2C so just above its +40c operating), set it to 12v winter and 5 hours later it's still showing 12.8v , -0.1c now so it's warmed up outside.  When it's finished it will show "FUL" and go to maintain mode so I and others can sleep easy knowing the battery will come to harm.

 

I just hope no one steals my new charger/maintainer.

 

[Micky 32]

The car gets long drives and rarely has any short journeys so i doubt my battery would need periodic separate charging.  My father recently replaced the original battery on his car 14.5 years. That had a life of mostly short runs and never had a charger connected to it.

 

Yeah i use a battery monitor. I can tell by the Open circuit voltage comparisons when the car is in sleep mode with very minimal load on the battery. 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

48 minutes ago, Micky 32 said:

The car gets long drives and rarely has any short journeys so i doubt my battery would need periodic separate charging.

Thanks for your reply.  A lot of people think that, some even know it but bear in mind the battery is just like a bank account you have to make sure the outgoings don't entirely depleted what saved and put in otherwise things don't go so well.

 

I was thinking very occasional charging rather periodic, of course it might step up a bit as the battery and charging system and car age, when you change the battery only that is new.

 

You've got flashing lights and the battery is struggling to start, perhaps it still would have had it been charged fully with an appropriate battery charger but too late to know now unless you were monitoring the battery during driving. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Micky 32 said:

My father recently replaced the original battery on his car 14.5 years. That had a life of mostly short runs and never had a charger connected to it.

Fair enough, but your dad's car is at least 14 year old when the electricery was less complicated and (VW particularly) computer programs were less complex, intertwined and invasive, his car might have less eclectic bits on it and no start/stop.

 

Some only seem to expect a few years out of a car battery now so you've done well to get over 5 in that respect - however your dad got 14.5 years so perhaps you should let him drive your car - only joking. 😄

 

Again thanks for your replies, have a good 'un, cheers.

 

ETA: the charger/maintainer still shows 12.8v after nearly 7 hours, perhaps the display has frozen the weather has gone down to -1c now but at least the charger is still there (feels colder than -1c though).

 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by nta16
ETA:

[Micky 32]

Seems an interesting charging system on these stop start cars. With the monitor i can tell when the car is in energy recouperation mode. Apparently keeps the battery charged at 80% most of the time.

 With vcds i was able to find where it shows how many start/stop the starter has gone through in it’s 163,000 miles. A whopping 42,000 ish. AGM’s are tough batteries.

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

18 hours ago, Micky 32 said:

AGM’s are tough batteries.

Good to know.

 

Unfortunately VW/Skoda fitted EFB to the Fabia Mk3, at least from my wife's car and what I've seen, or remember, from here.  Just my luck when I changed the battery on my wife's car 18months ago it was more expensive than now as there was a rash of VW/Skoda owners with failing batteries so  I read here.

 

I broke my own rule and changed the battery well before needed to cover my own more important rules of not farting about with a (second) car and making sure my wife has no hassles so doesn't pass on the hassles to me.

 

-1.7c now and still showing 12.8V.  I can't sleep as I'm so worried about the battery charger and someone stealing it.

 

 

 

 

 

🤣

 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by nta16
spelling

[numskull]

Had the first battery warning on trying to start the car this morning at -5c; definitely struggled to start. Was fine after running for a few minutes, but we have a big trip coming up need to have it replaced.
I’ve just noticed that I have battery replacement cover included in our RAC membership, so I was wondering if anyone knows if they’ll replace it with a proper like-for like unit (no idea which manufacturers the RAC branded batteries are) plus do they have the tools and experience to adapt the battery to the car?

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

The RAC are very keen to sell batteries, too keen, and are expensive but if you have the cover, up to you if you want to breakdown at your own inconvenience, many batteries given sufficient charge (time and patience) can be recovered and made to last longer or a lot longer - but not if they're been flogged too near to death or too many times.

 

You are breaking down at the same time as many others with battery neglect so it depends on how popular or not your battery is and the RAC van stock levels.

 

Don't worry you will be one of very many now, the RAC man will tell you that, 'ow's your c/heating?  😁

 

More info here, good luck. -  https://www.rac.co.uk/batteryfittingservice#:~:text=The RAC battery fitting service,you – usually within 30 minutes.

Edited 11 December, 2022 by nta16
spelling

[Micky 32]

19 minutes ago, numskull said:

Had the first battery warning on trying to start the car this morning at -5c; definitely struggled to start. Was fine after running for a few minutes, but we have a big trip coming up need to have it replaced.
I’ve just noticed that I have battery replacement cover included in our RAC membership, so I was wondering if anyone knows if they’ll replace it with a proper like-for like unit (no idea which manufacturers the RAC branded batteries are) plus do they have the tools and experience to adapt the battery to the car?

How old is the battery? AGM? Mine sounded low this morning too but has done so the last year or two whenever it’s very cold. So far never fails to start. AGM’s don’t usually die suddenly. It’s a long drawn out death with lots of warning.

[varooom]

46 minutes ago, numskull said:

Had the first battery warning on trying to start the car this morning at -5c; definitely struggled to start. Was fine after running for a few minutes, but we have a big trip coming up need to have it replaced.
I’ve just noticed that I have battery replacement cover included in our RAC membership, so I was wondering if anyone knows if they’ll replace it with a proper like-for like unit (no idea which manufacturers the RAC branded batteries are) plus do they have the tools and experience to adapt the battery to the car?

I would change it now if it was my battery, no sense getting stuck on the side of the road freezing cold as the engine has stopped running.

[numskull]

10 hours ago, Micky 32 said:

How old is the battery? AGM? Mine sounded low this morning too but has done so the last year or two whenever it’s very cold. So far never fails to start. AGM’s don’t usually die suddenly. It’s a long drawn out death with lots of warning.

It’s the original battery so close to 7 years old. No idea what type it is, but I’ll take a pic this morning and post it. 

[numskull]

9 hours ago, varooom said:

I would change it now if it was my battery, no sense getting stuck on the side of the road freezing cold as the engine has stopped running.

Yep, I agree, hence the questions re the RAC. 

[numskull]

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

The RAC are very keen to sell batteries, too keen, and are expensive but if you have the cover, up to you if you want to breakdown at your own inconvenience, many batteries given sufficient charge (time and patience) can be recovered and made to last longer or a lot longer - but not if they're been flogged too near to death or too many times.

 

You are breaking down at the same time as many others with battery neglect so it depends on how popular or not your battery is and the RAC van stock levels.

 

Don't worry you will be one of very many now, the RAC man will tell you that, 'ow's your c/heating?  😁

 

More info here, good luck. -  https://www.rac.co.uk/batteryfittingservice#:~:text=The RAC battery fitting service,you – usually within 30 minutes.

Thanks for the link and that puts my mind at rest. 

 

Yeah, I’m well aware of the RAC sales targets for batteries, however, I’m in the market for one. 

[numskull]

Update

 

I had the battery tested by the RAC earlier today - results are below. So, there is nowt wrong with the battery. In fact he was quite surprised that a 7 year old 680en battery was showing a test rating of 671 and it was holding its charge OK.

However, it was only showing a 47% charge, which he supposed was caused by very short local journeys, which I confirmed to be correct so he told me to shove it on the C-Tek overnight and take it for a decent run tomorrow using as little load as possible and then put it back on the charger for 24 hours. 
Finally - and this was interesting - he said when it does fail, he confirmed that firstly, the replacement battery would be adapted to the car and secondly, they would replace the current EFB with an AGM unit, primarily so the RAC can be assured it should outlast their 5 Year battery warranty, as they still experience early failures of OE EFB units. 

 

 

 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

2 hours ago, numskull said:

Update

With those results you might want to think about keeping the battery and changing the car! 🤣

 

If you recharge the battery with a battery charger now and in future when appropriate, rather than trying to make up too larger  battery deficit by just driving as many think, and use the battery charger maintainer when appropriate you could get a lot more life from the battery.

 

You will need to abuse the battery a lot more and perhaps nearer the end of your membership cover for the year, or future year(s).

 

Follow the RAC advice and you should be OK battery wise for your upcoming trip.  Good luck and enjoy your trip.

 

[Micky 32]

3 hours ago, numskull said:

Update

 

I had the battery tested by the RAC earlier today - results are below. So, there is nowt wrong with the battery. In fact he was quite surprised that a 7 year old 680en battery was showing a test rating of 671 and it was holding its charge OK.

However, it was only showing a 47% charge, which he supposed was caused by very short local journeys, which I confirmed to be correct so he told me to shove it on the C-Tek overnight and take it for a decent run tomorrow using as little load as possible and then put it back on the charger for 24 hours. 
Finally - and this was interesting - he said when it does fail, he confirmed that firstly, the replacement battery would be adapted to the car and secondly, they would replace the current EFB with an AGM unit, primarily so the RAC can be assured it should outlast their 5 Year battery warranty, as they still experience early failures of OE EFB units. 

 

 

 

/cdn-cgi/mirage/7ef2a44b785400d29a8fd15a0e4d5fffe2d9913bfac72229cb253167b445d29b/1280/https://www.briskoda.net/forums/uploads/monthly_2022_12/27EBDB28-A4BB-4739-B95F-F03127A5C169.thumb.jpeg.a29d1a866d02d446a9488d34c47f10d5.jpeg

A bit healthier than my 680 EN AGM battery just under 6 years . I’m down to 350 EN.

 

after a good drive yesterday my resting voltage after the car fully shutting down was 12.66v. But overnight sitting 11 hours it slowly and gradually dropped to 12.45v. Quite low voltage for an AGM. 

Edited 12 December, 2022 by Micky 32

[numskull]

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you recharge the battery with a battery charger now and in future

Throughout lockdown and during the 6 months when I was unable to drive following that, the car sat on the drive in the garden connected to the C-Tek. It’s back on now and started without a problem this morning. 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

14 hours ago, Micky 32 said:

But overnight sitting 11 hours it slowly and gradually dropped to 12.45v. Quite low voltage for an AGM. 

12.4 is fine for AGM.

 

 

15 hours ago, Micky 32 said:

A bit healthier than my 680 EN AGM battery just under 6 years . I’m down to 350 EN.

That I don't know about and hope someone else can tell us.  Also it may depend on how the 350 was arrived at, tester set for AGM / stop-start and I don't know whatever might be significant to the testing and result.

 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

6 hours ago, numskull said:

Throughout lockdown and during the 6 months when I was unable to drive following that, the car sat on the drive in the garden connected to the C-Tek. It’s back on now and started without a problem this morning. 

Best you could do then and old cars are often hibernated for many months but the battery is designed to be cycled so normal use is helpful.

 

As I put I've yet to discover how to test these batteries best and don't know where to find the info, I might contact some manufactures once the Xmas and New Year madness is well passed.

 

[J.R.]

15 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you recharge the battery with a battery charger now and in future when appropriate, rather than trying to make up too larger  battery deficit by just driving as many think, and use the battery charger maintainer when appropriate you could get a lot more life from the battery.

Complete and utter BS.

 

The only times it would be appropriate to use a battery charger rather than the vehicles charging system is if the battery is too discharged to start the car, if you have no need to drive anywhere or only on very short journeys of less than 1/2 mile or a couple of minutes, if the vehicle is going to be left standing for weeks on end or over winter to avoid the battery discharging beneath 10.5v and a subsequent starting attempt.

 

15 hours later you contradict yourself with an accurate comment.

 

13 minutes ago, nta16 said:

the battery is designed to be cycled so normal use is helpful.

 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

@numskull just in case I didn't make myself clear to you.  

 

If you recharge the battery with a battery charger now and in future when appropriate, rather than trying to make up too larger  battery deficit by just driving as many think, and use the battery charger maintainer when appropriate you could get a lot more life from the battery.

 

Or you can go by the same as VW put in their Owner's Manuals and perhaps the advice of the RAC man.

 

My troll has very selective reading and understanding of my posts but whilst he's bothering me he's not bothering others, I accept it for all my bad deeds in past lives. 🤣

 

Troll- la-lol.  🤣 🤣