Replacing VERY noisy 18" Firestone tyres

[Spudskoda]

Good Afternoon everyone,

 

I started a new post in the Wheels Zone forum, asking about things to consider if I were to reduce my wheels from 18" to 17", because I am having real issues with road noise on the tyres that I currently have on the Superb MkII estate 4x4 which I recently bought - see below if you would like to look through that conversation.

 

It became apparent that swapping wheels out was far from a straightforward issue, and could prove costly, with no guarantee of any improvement, so as a starting point it was suggested that I see if swapping tyres might offer an improvement.

 

I currently have Firestone Firehawk SZ90s 225/40/R18 on all 4 "Luna" wheels, and to say they are incredibly noisy would be an understatement, they are borderline unbearable, by far the noisiest tyre I have experienced on any vehicle I have owned or driven in 33 years of motoring.

 

Has anyone else with a Superb estate running on 225/40/18 tyres has swapped out their tyres, and found them to be markedly less noisy?

 

Any suggestions would be very welcome - thank you. 

 

 

[Carlston]

I suggest you change your wheel size (tyres and rims). There's a good market on ebay for secondhand wheels, so you shouldn't have too much difficulty shifting your old wheels if they are in reasonably good condition.

 

If you're looking at new tyres and rims, 16" will work out cheaper than 17" because steel rims are available in suitable 16" sizes, whereas suitable rims for the 225/45R17 tyre size will only be available in aluminium.

 

205/55R16 tyres will be cheaper than 225/45R17 tyres.

 

205/55R16 tyres will be noticeably more comfortable than 225/45R17 tyres.

 

205/55R16 are generally quieter than the wider 225/45R17 tyre size.

 

205/55R16 will reduce the fuel consumption a little, compared to the wider 225/45R17 tyre size due to less weight and reduced drag.

 

So lots of benefits in going to the narrower 205/55R16 tyre size compared to 225/45R17.

 

Michelin CrossClimate 2 205/55R16

https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/205-55-16?seasonal=allseason&manufacturer=michelin&delivery=1&id=11377

 

Michelin CrossClimate 2 225/45R17

https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/225-45-17?seasonal=AllSeason&manufacturer=michelin&delivery=1&id=11377

 

The above 16" Michelins are labelled at 69dB and the above 17" Michelins are labelled at 71dB. So the 16" Michelins are quieter than the wider 17" Michelins.

 

You can see on mytyres that both 6Jx16 ET50 5/112 57.1 steel rims and 7Jx16 ET45 5/112 57.1 steel rims are available. The narrower 6J rims are a winter tyre size, but would be ideal for use with all-season tyres because they are officially winter rated due to their 3PMSF (3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake) symbol. This means that they have passed a test for good traction in the snow, which is why they are winter rated. The narrower 6J rim will also provide more comfort than the wider 7J rim. This is because the tyre sidewalls flex more easily when fitted to narrower rims.

 

16" steel rims

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/rim-selector?type=steel&vehicle_ids=182113210420171888%3A%3A0001

 

The main reason for going to 17" over 16" is the appearance. However, you can get some attractive wheel trims in the 16" size. The below is a VW wheel trim, but Skoda wheel trims are also available.

 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Original-Pieces-Complete-Sportsvan-1T0071456A/dp/B01C22X3HK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1N7LZK92TCZFN&keywords=vw+16+zoll+radkappen&qid=1663075781&sprefix=vw+16+%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-3

 

Skoda Octavia MK3 steel rims (6.5Jx16 ET46 and 6Jx16 ET48)

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rims/rim-selector?type=steel&vehicle_ids=185949956245308528%3A%3A0001

 

Skoda Octavia MK3 wheel trim for 6Jx16 ET48 steel rim

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/celoplosne-kryty-kol-nordic-16/p/5E0071456E

 

Skoda Octavia MK3 alloy rims (6.5Jx16 ET46 and 6Jx16 ET48)

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/hlinikove-disky/c/alloyWheels?sort=priceAsc&q=%3AscoreDesc%3AcarType%3AOctavia%2BIII%2B%282017%2B%29&show=Page#

 

I've included links to Octavia MK3 rims because they are a similar specification (but not identical) to Superb MK2 rims, ie. 6.5Jx16 ET46 and 6Jx16 ET48 for the Octavia MK3, and 7Jx16 ET45 and 6Jx16 ET50 for the Superb MK2. This opens up a lot more options. "skoda eshop cz", for example, are no longer listing any alloy rims for the Superb MK2 but are still showing plenty of Octavia MK3 alloy rims.

 

Edited 13 September, 2022 by Carlston

[Ootohere]

There is a good market place for selling or buying wheels, tyres and other stuff on a Skoda enthusiasts forum.

 

A small fee for selling and buyers might be well informed as to what a Skoda is.

I think the forum is called BRISKODA or something like that. 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

I never even though about 16" wheels but where suitable I'm a big fan of smaller, narrower wheels and narrower tyres with sensible (higher) profile sidewalls.

 

As has already been put and on another thread, particularly here the wheels and tyre sizes are often well over the top fashion stuff.

 

With the state of our roads you need all the 'rubber' and air suspension you can get.

 

Edited 13 September, 2022 by nta16

[Spudskoda]

Thanks for the suggestions @Carlston  from looking on some of the "will they fit" type websites suggested by other members, I have more or less established that 16" would be very close to not fitting over the brake discs and calipers . . . . 

 

With this particular post, I am looking to see if any members are running different rubber on 18" rims and have found them to be markedly quieter.

[Carlston]

52 minutes ago, Spudskoda said:

I have more or less established that 16" would be very close to not fitting over the brake discs and calipers . 

 

The Superb MK2 uses either 288mm, 312mm, or 340mm diameter front brake discs.

 

15" rims will fit over 288mm front brake discs.

 

16" rims will fit over 312mm front brake discs.

 

17" rims will fit over 340mm front brake discs.

 

Only the 3.6FSI 256HP engine uses the 340mm front brake discs.

 

16" steel rims will easily fit over 312mm front brake discs, because steel is much stronger than cast aluminium so there will be more clearance when a 16" steel rim is used.

 

Superb MK2 brakes

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/SUP/768/6

 

For further proof, you can look at the Audi TT 1st generation. The smallest front discs they used were 312mm, yet they often came out of the factory with 16" rims.

 

On autodoc, Jurid shows that the Superb MK2 with 2.0TDI and 1.8TSI engines have 312mm front discs. wheel-size.com show that these cars had a 16" wheel factory option.

 

You can see that the below cars had a 16" factory wheel option. Even the Superb MK3 can be fitted with 16" wheels, except for the 2.0TSI 272HP/280HP 4x4 versions that are fitted with the big 340mm front brakes. Skoda dealers even sell a 205/55R16 spare wheel for the Superb MK3 that fits all versions except the 340mm big brake cars. Bear in mind that the front brakes fitted to the Superb MK3 are never less than 312mm. Some versions of the Superb MK2 come with smaller 288mm front brakes, and 15" rims will clear their front brake calipers. 288mm front brakes are even marked as compatible with 15" rims in the "skoda parts catalogue"

 

288mm front discs are marked as compatible with 15" rims

Floating caliper brake Brake caliper housing calliper carrier Brake disc (vented)

front TEVES 288X25MM 15"

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/SUP/768/6/615/615025

Skoda Superb 2014 1.8TSI

– Generation: II B6 (3T) [2008 .. 2017]  

– Power: 150 hp | 112 kW | 152 PS 

– Engine: 1.8L, CDAB, I4, Petrol

– Center Bore: 57.1 mm 

– PCD: 5x112 

Tire	Rim
205/55R16 94V	7Jx16 ET45	2.3 / 2.1
225/45R17 94W	7.5Jx17 ET49	2.4 / 2.2

 

 

Skoda Superb 2014 1.8TSI

– Generation: II B6 (3T) [2008 .. 2017]  

– Power: 158 hp | 118 kW | 160 PS 

– Engine: 1.8L, CDAA, I4, Petrol

– Center Bore: 57.1 mm 

– PCD: 5x112 

Tire	Rim
205/55R16 94V	7Jx16 ET45	2.3 / 2.1
225/45ZR17 94W	7.5Jx17 ET49	2.4 / 2.2

 

Skoda Superb 2014 2.0TDI

– Generation: II B6 (3T) [2008 .. 2017]  

– Power: 138 hp | 103 kW | 140 PS 

– Engine: 2.0L, I4, Diesel

– Center Bore: 57.1 mm 

– PCD: 5x112 

Tire	Rim
205/55R16 94V	6Jx16 ET50	2.3 / 2.1
205/55R16 94V	7Jx16 ET45	2.3 / 2.1

 

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/skoda/superb/2014/

 

Audi TT 1st generation uses 312mm front brake discs

98N0615301A Brake disc (vented) 312X25MM 5/100

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/ATT/229/6/615/615025

 

Audi TT 1st generation uses 16" wheels

2	8N0601025C	Aluminium rim	7 JX16H2 ET31 5/100	4	PR-C4M
	8N0601025C Z17	Avus silver

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/ATT/229/6/601/601050

 

Edited 13 September, 2022 by Carlston

[Spudskoda]

15 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

The Superb MK2 uses either 288mm, 312mm, or 340mm diameter front brake discs.

 

15" rims will fit over 288mm front brake discs.

 

16" rims will fit over 312mm front brake discs.

 

17" rims will fit over 340mm front brake discs.

 

Only the 3.6FSI 256HP engine uses the 340mm front brake discs.

 

16" steel rims will easily fit over 312mm front brake discs, because steel is much stronger than cast aluminium so there will be more clearance when a 16" steel rim is used.

 

Superb MK2 brakes

https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/skoda/CZ/SUP/768/6

 

For further proof, you can look at the Audi TT 1st generation. The smallest front discs they used were 312mm, yet they often came out of the factory with 16" rims.

 

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=225-40-18X7.5ET46&wheel2=205-55-16X6ET45&fcl=50mm&scl=50mm&wcl=30mm&sr=0mm

 

This is what I was looking at.

 

The link to the site was kindly provided to me by another member and I inputted the parameters for existing and replacement wheels.

 

The image on the right shows the wheel extremely close to the calliper on a 16" wheel with an ET45 offset on the wheel.

 

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, Spudskoda said:

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=225-40-18X7.5ET46&wheel2=205-55-16X6ET45&fcl=50mm&scl=50mm&wcl=30mm&sr=0mm

 

This is what I was looking at.

 

The link to the site was kindly provided to me by another member and I inputted the parameters for existing and replacement wheels.

 

The image on the right shows the wheel extremely close to the calliper on a 16" wheel with an ET45 offset on the wheel.

 

 

That website is wrong because it doesn't know that you have 312mm diameter front brake discs. It shouldn't be showing the rim touching the brakes.

 

205/55R16 is a factory option on some Superb MK2 cars with 312mm front brakes.

 

If you had a lower powered Superb MK2 with the smaller 288mm diameter front brakes discs, that website would still show the rim touching the brakes even though there would be loads of room.

 

If you compare 225/45R17 with 205/55R16, that website shows that there's plenty of room between the brakes and rim. However, that website is worse than useless at showing whether the brakes will touch the rim because it is misleading. It's not actually designed to show whether the rim will clear the brakes as it doesn't have the data to come to a rational conclusion.

 

Edited 13 September, 2022 by Carlston

[SurreyJohn]

One of the problems with the Firestone Firehawk SZ90 is they are marketed as high performance summer tyres.  So basically they are sporty and firm tyres.   They are also a mid range brand (The Japanese brand Bridgestone bought Firestone 34 years ago) and if you make something to a limited budget (rather than a premium tyre budget) compromises are made.  Quite simply it costs more to use compounds that are soft enough to be quieter, but tough enough not to wear quickly.

 

As a general rule any tyre described as sport or sporty is going to be very firm, anything called Eco tends to be firm too (to minimise the flat bit in contact with the road to reduce rolling resistance).  As temperatures fall they get even harder.  Basically the opposite of soft which will absorb sound better.  If you don’t believe me try poking the tread on one of these tyres on a cold day.

 

So stick to a tyre  suitable for cold ( it will have a 3 peak mountain with snowflake symbol), and pick an all season tyre with lower decibel rating.  The same rule of needing to buy premium tyres applies if want compounds that can flex and absorb sound, but be tough to resist wear applies.    You simply won’t get a quiet budget tyre that can defy laws of physics and wear slowly because cheap simple materials can’t do both.

 

 

 

[Spudskoda]

3 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

One of the problems with the Firestone Firehawk SZ90 is they are marketed as high performance summer tyres.  So basically they are sporty and firm tyres.   They are also a mid range brand (The Japanese brand Bridgestone bought Firestone 34 years ago) and if you make something to a limited budget (rather than a premium tyre budget) compromises are made.  Quite simply it costs more to use compounds that are soft enough to be quieter, but tough enough not to wear quickly.

 

As a general rule any tyre described as sport or sporty is going to be very firm, anything called Eco tends to be firm too (to minimise the flat bit in contact with the road to reduce rolling resistance).  As temperatures fall they get even harder.  Basically the opposite of soft which will absorb sound better.  If you don’t believe me try poking the tread on one of these tyres on a cold day.

 

So stick to a tyre  suitable for cold ( it will have a 3 peak mountain with snowflake symbol), and pick an all season tyre with lower decibel rating.  The same rule of needing to buy premium tyres applies if want compounds that can flex and absorb sound, but be tough to resist wear applies.    You simply won’t get a quiet budget tyre that can defy laws of physics and wear slowly because cheap simple materials can’t do both.

 

 

 

Any particular brand that stand out in this regard please mate? 

[Spudskoda]

Just to check that I am looking at the right kinds of things if I was considering 16" wheels with 55 wall tyres, would either of these be suitable to be fitted to my car please?

 

16" rim

5 x 112

No info on centre bore diameter or offset ?!?!?!

 

Is it safe to assume that if the rim width and the stud diameter are correct that the ET will be suitable, or is there more to it than that?

 

From information and links that I was kindly provided with in the other conversation in the wheels forum, it seemed that the ET varied with width and diameter as a ratio, but I'm still not certain how this works.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265881626043?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D241917%26meid%3D39a2c4311def4be9b8f77d8f67bec54a%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265872809553%26itm%3D265881626043%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithRevOptLambda90KnnRecallV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A26588162604339a2c4311def4be9b8f77d8f67bec54a|enc%3AAQAHAAABEPZqctS1aW2Gn1fMafrLrPa7%2BqLD2Pgo5GTgCDTJgIpBMBHaBHcFvdVGNBWeIytK8U7x8RargP9Bv5VZgW5ZIFP1ukK7sBpt3VhMN9lKcJv58rifkCbp1qK4kKhZ7QVAqrjY4Z%2FygimvCoVXKHovqm9lNfok5PuTlVaq274s15znkZAkTOuxQ624qvbcN5mNEPo0fRsSpmtMj3RRloQ%2FqRYynAe%2FYCdiUtTvcE4TPqEkCA%2BO34WQm4sq7I3iBacMXanjvj3AfEWV8pBuaUxepV%2FoWKdyC2J1OAVbcCBaFG9FAC%2BjyZjtBz7WZ4pX8UcM0idsn3%2BH9KcgePIY5V6Bx0ks5%2F7viVHLi%2Bu3W6vVTlNV|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265872809553?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110010%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.DISCCARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818141627%26meid%3Ddaf268535828486a8a6b51bd23a0dcaa%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D134221665000%26itm%3D265872809553%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3Ddefault&_trksid=p2563228.c101110.m1982&amdata=cksum%3A265872809553daf268535828486a8a6b51bd23a0dcaa|enc%3AAQAHAAAA4C9MqZj5rvev%2FtpGrc%2FLsyOjod9AGtityX7W%2Bq07KgZMsnrXiJjZG8ZVvSjYeb6YEnUBWmEPX4%2BxaancHDQiN3SyJHZWU5RviDGLQxcGnVQEO44PlHc%2FmHViGbtJzwPjOPfVdWORQrpRWqSPuLeTU4TzEIg%2FmQi93%2BzADsmMIlvC7a4aK66SYJxqG2AJuR5qV3tV9jFgpZPP3wTkU0WXGbGZsDzRbjhb7zs%2BFJBpmOhECI%2BvaRZoY%2BqRHux75ueJDisKEaj6ehifmutAu%2BUTV4mOy%2FpmPsAYAdtSzh4KA9V7|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2563228

[SurreyJohn]

22 hours ago, Spudskoda said:

Any particular brand that stand out in this regard please mate? 

The following brands have quiet ratings (not checked if available in required size), all will be fairly expensive (as need complicated compounds to be soft enough, but not wear too quickly).  Also some sizes not as quiet (decibel rating)

 

Michelin cross climate 2, Nokian seasonproof, Pirelli Cinturato all season SF2, 

[Spudskoda]

Cheers John. 

 

Might prove less expensive to get some decent second hand 16" / 17" wheels with decent tyres on than replace the rubber on the 18" rims for these high end tyres . . . . . 

 

Much to consider.

 

Thanks for the guidance mate

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Just for info. -  To save virtual ink and screen space, you can shorten the eBay link to just the item number.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265881626043

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265872809553

 

[Spudskoda]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Just for info. -  To save virtual ink and screen space, you can shorten the eBay link to just the item number.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265881626043

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265872809553

 

Cheers Nigel, I wasn't aware of this - another pearl of wisdom gleaned from this fabulous forum - every day is a school day  

[nta16]

No problem.  Sometimes you have to look for the item number in the string but other times like yours they're very easy as it's just a matter of copying just to the end of the item number.

 

Happy to pass it on, as someone did for me.

 

[Mickvrs220]

I replaced very noisy bridgetones on my vrs ,same size as yours i believe ,with avon zv7s ,really changed my car noise wise so much quieter .

[Pilotguy]

The Hankook Kingergy AS2  that came =1st in this right up-to-date tyrereviews.com All Seasons tyre test sounds just the thing for what you’re looking for. Less expensive than the Michelin and Goodyear normal favourites, but an excellent performer, especially in the noise rating. Still nudging around £100 each though. I hardly ever see any snow where I live in Cornwall, so I’ll be sticking to buying Summer tyres for my Octavia.

 

Quote

The Hankook Kinergy 4S2 H750 finishes an impressive second in the balanced results, but even more impressively it wins with the mild climate score weighting! The Hankook was just incredibly consistent, finishing first place in both aquaplaning tests, second in wet handling, wet braking and dry braking, third in snow handling, and fourth in snow traction, snow braking and dry handling! It's only let down, which we've seen in other tests, is an increased rolling resistance, but given how exceptional it is in every other category, I highly recommend this tyre. Outstanding work by Hankook.

 

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Personally I'd only take tests like that as a generalisation, very limited specifics there, I'm not saying it's a bad test but it only gives some idea of a range that may apply generally but not necessarily that accurately widely.

 

[PetrolDave]

10 hours ago, Pilotguy said:

 I hardly ever see any snow where I live in Cornwall, so I’ll be sticking to buying Summer tyres for my Octavia.

But if it's true that All Seaon tyres are (generally) quieter doesn't that make them worth considering, especially if you're not going to be using the full potential (grip, handling, etc.) of Summer tyres?

 

When I lived in Southampton I had Summer & Winter wheels/tyres on my daily commute (Citroen C1) and could definitely feel the benefit on cold Winter days.

 

I'll certainly be very carefully researching All Season tyres when mine need replacing as I don't want to go through the hassle of changing wheels twice a year and storing the other set.

[Carlston]

11 hours ago, Pilotguy said:

The Hankook Kingergy AS2  that came =1st in this right up-to-date tyrereviews.com All Seasons tyre test sounds just the thing for what you’re looking for. Less expensive than the Michelin and Goodyear normal favourites, but an excellent performer, especially in the noise rating. Still nudging around £100 each though. I hardly ever see any snow where I live in Cornwall, so I’ll be sticking to buying Summer tyres for my Octavia.

 

The Hankook Kinergy 4S2 has a high wear rate. Only 63.63% of the mileage of the best tyre in this test.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

 

Edited 16 September, 2022 by Carlston

[Pilotguy]

@PetrolDave  I haven’t had any noise issues with a couple of sets of UHP Summer tyres, Michelin PS4 and Goodyear Assy 5’s . We really just don’t get the same cold spells as much of the rest of the UK so All Seasons, often with a higher price tag than Summer UHPs, haven’t factored into my buying choices. Everyone’s circumstances and driving needs are vastly different, I often find these ‘what tyre’ threads aren’t much use because of this. Doesn’t stop me giving my opinion though!!!

Edited 16 September, 2022 by Pilotguy

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

We usually don't get too much snow here being in the middle of the country but a couple of recent winters has seen proper snow and we can get it cold or very cold in winter.  Summer tyre performance starts going off at 10c (or they might say 99c for some reason now) for the (very) odd time that could be a summer's day even here (snowed once in June IIRC).

 

Being old I've always had summer tyres, never mud and snow, winter or all seasons tyres but most of my cars have had sensible sized wheels and tyres so easier to handle even with RWD, even if I'm not that great a driver I am aware of adapting the driving to the circumstances and conditions.  Having 145 or 155 width tyres helped.  😁

 

[Ootohere]

Parts of Scotland will have 10*oC & lower night time almost constantly from now until next spring and cars will be getting about just fine.

When there is Ice and Snow many of the cars and vans on summer tyres will just be driving about as long as the roads are ploughed and salted / gritted.

That's just how things are.  Driving instructors will have students out on lessons when there is snow on the ground with what ever tyres the lease cars come with. 

 

But then it has always been the case that a nice wee car with FWD might be keeping going just fine on snow when big cars, AWD / FWD's/ SUV's struggle to stay away from kerbs if there is a camber or slope when on the wrong tyres. 

 

 

Edited 16 September, 2022 by roottoot

[SurreyJohn]

13 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Parts of Scotland will have 10*oC & lower night time almost constantly from now until next spring and cars will be getting about just fine.

When there is Ice and Snow many of the cars and vans on summer tyres will just be driving about as long as the roads are ploughed and salted / gritted.

That's just how things are.  Driving instructors will have students out on lessons when there is snow on the ground with what ever tyres the lease cars come with. 

 

 

But if you live in the South, and it snows, not uncommon to wait many days for a snowplough or gritter, they are sparse.   In meantime summer tyres are useless.