Battery drain, pulled fuses, no change!?

[colinstubbs]

Right my other half's 2001 1.4 16v Mk1 Fabia Comfort has a parasitic battery drain of 0.501 amps which obviously isn't good. The battery is old but no point replacing it til I've fixed the issue. 

I've pulled all the drivers fuse box fuses and the current draw didn't change... Where the hell do I look now 🤷‍♂️

[Breezy_Pete]

There are a bunch of strip fuses, and some blade fuses in the fuse tray above the battery. The blade fuses hide under a plastic cover. Try those, one by one.

 

 

[colinstubbs]

Ahh yes, cheers I'll pop out between the showers and have a look. Just narrowing down a bit has got to help! 😎

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

59 minutes ago, colinstubbs said:

Where the hell do I look now 🤷‍♂️

If you've got the Driver's Handbook it usually tells you in there too, check any info or drawing match your vehicle.

 

Even if the battery is old you still might be able to revive it by recharging it, a long low slow recharge nearer to the discharge might be better than a high, fast quick recharge much further away.

 

Good luck.

Edited 26 September, 2022 by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

[nige8021]

13 minutes ago, colinstubbs said:

Ahh yes, cheers I'll pop out between the showers and have a look. Just narrowing down a bit has got to help! 😎

If the blade fuses don't reduce the drain, try disconnecting the main (thick) cable from the alternator and see if that improves things as you might have a leaking diode in the rectifier pack inside the alternator 

[colinstubbs]

Yes I disconnected all the strip and normal fuses and the drain barely dropped. Confused me for a bit then I realised the alternator cable is basically part of the positive terminal so yeah it's looking like alternator diode issue I guess.... Dammit. 

Dodging showers at the mo here cos I'm feeling a bit peaky but I'll whip off the alternator end of the cable and no doubt watch it drop! 

[Breezy_Pete]

5 minutes ago, colinstubbs said:

alternator cable is basically part of the positive terminal...

No, that's the starter motor feed. Alternator cable goes to the first of the strip fuses, number 1.

[Breezy_Pete]

6 minutes ago, colinstubbs said:

I'll whip off the alternator end of the cable

Be very careful if you have the battery connected still when you do this. Although there is a fuse as mentioned above, it's a high rating (150 or 175A) so you'll still get an alarming spark if you short it to anything earthed.

[colinstubbs]

Well this is doing my head in a bit. Battery @12.55v

a) everything connected = 0.51a drain

b) ALL the strip fuses and blade fuses in the battery case disconnected = 0.44a drain

c) main +ve cable from battery to rest of car disconnected, alternator cable connected to battery but removed from alternator = 0.44a drain 

d) alternator cable reconnected to alternator but cable/+ve terminal removed from battery and main car +ve cable reconnected drain = 0.51a

 

I was thinking there was a short somewhere along the alternator cable from the battery as it doesn't look like a diode issue (?) but the drain goes back up with everything else connected instead of that cable!?!?! 

 

Am I missing something obvious?

Its not helping today's general malaise, I should have had my feet up watching TV with warming drinks all day not messing about in and out of the rain chasing this in bloody circles 🥴🙄🥴

 

[colinstubbs]

18 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

No, that's the starter motor feed. Alternator cable goes to the first of the strip fuses, number 1.

Ahh I missed that post, so maybe it's a starter solenoid issue.... Cheers

😎👍

Still ill - had to phone in sick, won't be looking at it today methinks... 🙄 

Edited 27 September, 2022 by colinstubbs

[Breezy_Pete]

Get well soon mate. I had my first cold in 2.5 years last week, still not 100%.

 

Again, be very careful if disconnecting the main positive feed to the starter motor, that one is not fused at all, it's direct to the positive battery clamp, so it's the most dangerous one to have waving about loose unless battery negative clamp is off the battery post.

 

 

[rum4mo]

Just one thing to remember if you have not taken it into consideration yet, when you are connecting/disconnecting main cables, you will probably be wakening up ALL that car's controllers, so for a shortish period after making a change, the drain current will be higher - and then drop off as controllers are put to sleep.

That means, when checking things over a short period of time, you might not actually be seeing any change or at least the changes that you are hoping to see.

[Breezy_Pete]

It's a fair point with limited/individual disconnections, but at the level of 'all strip fuses and blade fuses removed from battery fusebox', none of the car's controllers can possibly be awake.

The only thing left with any power is the starter motor, as far as I can see.

 

[colinstubbs]

All that said and done when I removed the main cable to the panel on top of the battery and keep starter connected there's 0.428a drain... 

I then removed the STARTER cable/terminal and reconnected the top panel cable and I still got a 0.518a drain so I've still got a massive drain with either cable separately connected!?!?! 

It makes no sense to me.... 

Especially with a fried brain at the mo!! 😂 

N. B. The 2 thin red and black wires are just to a  CTEK Charger plug

[Breezy_Pete]

Is it that your red meter cable needs to be in one of the left hand sockets? Top (10A) one recommended initially.

[sepulchrave]

@colinstubbs, you're plugged into the Volts, Ohms, Hertz socket, I'd go into the 600 mA socket on the bottom left if I were you...

[colinstubbs]

5 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Is it that your red meter cable needs to be in one of the left hand sockets? Top (10A) one recommended initially.

🧐😮😮😮😮😮Oh man have I made a ridiculous schoolboy error with an unfamiliar multimeter I've borrowed?.... Having just looked at it again it even flashes a green ring round the sockets I should be using FFS!!! Didn't notice them in the sun yesterday. Did I mention my brain was feeling fuzzy?? 

So I could be chasing an issue that doesn't actually exist. I really should have stayed indoors yesterday. 

🙄🥴🤨

Thanks for pointing that out though!! 

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, colinstubbs said:

I could be chasing an issue that doesn't actually exist.

That was my initial thought, not helped any by the feeling that you've measured the current from the battery positive terminal to its wire (based on what I can see in your picture).

[Breezy_Pete]

Last time I made a similar knob-up it was the other way round, tried to measure volts straight across the battery with the meter probe in the 20A current socket. Big phut!

Fuse inside the meter and a neighbouring bit of track both blew! 😁

Edited 27 September, 2022 by Breezy_Pete

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Shows the power of a couple of clear photos. 

 

I once tried sorting a windscreen wiper motor, drive mechanism and park position when I had  a cold and couldn't work it out and had the bonnet being wiped before I could stop it (yes that is possibly, it wasn't a Fabia).  But there again I've had an electrical tester set up wrong when I was perfectly well and didn't realise until I got too many fails.

 

I always test rather than taking someone's word for it after being told a mains socket was live and it wasn't (only dead socket in the room) and check the testing equipment after spending an hour looking for a leak that was on the test equipment I'd been lent.

 

No real knowledge but some experiences.

 

[colinstubbs]

Every day is a school day 😉

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

47 minutes ago, colinstubbs said:

Every day is a school day 😉

Don't worry - it gets worse when you're older as you can't remember what you learnt or relearnt, just how little you know or thought you knew previously, that's if you can remember what you thought you knew previous and what you do and don't know now. 🙃

 

At least you kept hold of the multimeter, I now spend more time looking for the screwdriver or fixing I only put down minutes or seconds ago, it's one constant head cold. 😄

 

The hot and extremely hot weather we had this summer (seems so long ago with today's weather) wasn't necessarily kind on batteries and charging systems so if you can full charge the battery now it help perhaps and although I'm not for replacing car batteries unnecessarily and too soon I changed the car battery on my wife's Fabia Mk3 for my wife's peace of mind and mine, well worth the extra expense.

 

As it gets colder and darker more drivers will find issues related to the car battery, I think this autumn/winter will be a bumper time for car battery sales, I'd beat the rush and avoid a 'distress purchase'.  Some examples:  - https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/types/027/

 

Edited 27 September, 2022 by nta16

[AndyPandy]

I always use a good quality  DC  current reading  clampmeter  for this situation.(It doesn't have to be a Fluke,which are very much overpriced!). The advantage is that  no cables need to be disconnected when looking for leaking current, and fuses can be pulled to notice any changes.With a lowest range 0 to 100mA full scale  low currents can be read. Also a clampmeter can be clamped on most small cables when needed.

 

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, AndyPandy said:

I always use a good quality  DC  current reading  clampmeter  for this situation.(It doesn't have to be a Fluke,which are very much overpriced!). The advantage is that  no cables need to be disconnected when looking for leaking current, and fuses can be pulled to notice any changes.With a lowest range 0 to 100mA full scale  low currents can be read. Also a clampmeter can be clamped on most small cables when needed.

 

 

Lucky you, most people only have cheap meters that can barely sense the presence of a DC current let alone quantify it because they work like a transformer and as everyone who was awake at school knows, transformers only work properly with AC current.

[colinstubbs]

So finally got to check for parasitic drain using the multimeter CORRECTLY and look at that... No drain 🤣🤣

Battery on 12.35v, turn key to illuminate dash lights and voltage plummets by more than 2v. Ain't starting anything like that! 

New battery it is, cheers for the Tanya link nta16 I'm aware of them ta. We have a great place in Tovil/Maidstone, SE Auto Electricals which have always be very reasonably priced. I'll be popping in this afternoon I think! 

Cheers for all the comments/help, if nrw battery doesnt sort it I'll be back

💪😎👍