Columbus Map Update 2023 (MIB1/2 HIGH)

[Davab]

1 minute ago, varooom said:

Most likely in NTFS format, this has a larger overhead of data for the "database" of files stored in the NTFS structure.

 

FAT32 on the same sized card will have more free space available to use, again down to the "database" of files stored being smaller.

That's the strange thing though, they were originally formatted FAT 32 using smallest cluster size available, which if memory serves me right was 4096 bytes and have worked perfectly for last 18 months. When out of frustration I reformatted, minimum cluster sizes seem to have changed following updates so chose 16kb but still no joy.

 

I did debate on formatting USB NTFS. as over 32gb threshold but decided to try fully on MAC and all good, at least if it all goes tits up on next update I've still got this good one as a fall back 🙂

[Tell]

11 minutes ago, Davab said:

That's the strange thing though, they were originally formatted FAT 32 using smallest cluster size available, which if memory serves me right was 4096 bytes and have worked perfectly for last 18 months. When out of frustration I reformatted, minimum cluster sizes seem to have changed following updates so chose 16kb but still no joy.

 

I did debate on formatting USB NTFS. as over 32gb threshold but decided to try fully on MAC and all good, at least if it all goes tits up on next update I've still got this good one as a fall back 🙂

 

No it's the manufacturing differences between 32gb fat32 SD cards so what was universally possible isn't now since the maps have grown to make the marginal differences kick in. With a Mac you do the Keka clean after its copied across which means you got the Mac overheads on the copy before the clean. 

[varooom]

The tl;dr is that exFAT with 16K cluster size gives you the most free space available for map storage.

 

 

As you can see from the same card formatted with NTFS/FAT32/exFAT, the NTFS has the least free space, and exFAT has the most free space for maps.
 

Spoiler

NTFS 4K

  31,162,879 KB total disk space.
  21,568 KB in 7 files.
  72 KB in 13 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  44,167 KB in use by the system.
  42,544 KB occupied by the log file.
  31,097,072 KB available on disk.

  4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
  7,790,719 total allocation units on disk.
  7,774,268 allocation units available on disk.

NTFS 16K

  31,162,879 KB total disk space.
  21,568 KB in 7 files.
  96 KB in 13 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  43,519 KB in use by the system.
  42,544 KB occupied by the log file.
  31,097,696 KB available on disk.

  16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
  1,947,679 total allocation units on disk.
  1,943,606 allocation units available on disk.

FAT32 8K

   31,130,112 KB total disk space.
   8 KB in 1 hidden files.
   16 KB in 2 files.
   31,130,080 KB are available.

   8,192 bytes in each allocation unit.
   3,891,264 total allocation units on disk.
   3,891,260 allocation units available on disk.

FAT32 16K

   31,146,496 KB total disk space.
   16 KB in 1 hidden files.
   32 KB in 2 files.
   31,146,432 KB are available.

   16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
   1,946,656 total allocation units on disk.
   1,946,652 allocation units available on disk.

exFAT 4K

  31,131,136 KB total disk space.
  4 KB in 1 files.
  8 KB in 2 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  960 KB in use by the system.
  31,130,164 KB available on disk.

  4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
  7,782,784 total allocation units on disk.
  7,782,541 allocation units available on disk.

exFAT 16K

  31,153,664 KB total disk space.
  32 KB in 2 files.
  32 KB in 2 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  256 KB in use by the system.
  31,153,344 KB available on disk.

  16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
  1,947,104 total allocation units on disk.
  1,947,084 allocation units available on disk.

Some images to show the space used/free on same card

Spoiler

 

Edited 29 December, 2022 by varooom
Additional Information

[Tell]

This now begs the question of whether a good 64gb card is better than USB3. The unit is suppose to support USB3 and SDXC cards.

 

 

If the tables are correct here then a USB3 drive will beat SDXC.

 

https://www.usbmemorydirect.com/blog/flash-drives-vs-sd-cards/

 

This SD SanDisk Extreme PRO 64GB SDXC Memory Card up to 170MB/s, UHS-1, Class 10, U3, V30, Black claiming 170MB/s

 

V

 

USB

 

https://www.flashbay.co.uk/support/faq/usb-flash-drive-read-write-speed

 

[USB 3.0:
Sequential write speed range = 10~45 MB/s
Sequential read speed range = 60~150 MB/s]

 

We don't really know what bus speed the SD reader has in the unit apart from it takes SDXC. I'm thinking it might not match this

 

https://wavelength.focuscamera.com/a-guide-to-sd-card-speed-other-specs/

 

Either way I got one of these ready for the day.

 

SanDisk Extreme PRO 64GB SDXC Memory Card up to 170MB/s, UHS-1, Class 10, U3, V30

 

We'll have to compare notes next time round.

 

& I'd be doing exFat above 32gb.

Edited 29 December, 2022 by Tell
tidy

[Tell]

9 minutes ago, varooom said:

The tl;dr is that exFAT with 16K cluster size gives you the most free space available for map storage.

 

 

As you can see from the same card formatted with NTFS/FAT32/exFAT, the NTFS has the least free space, and exFAT has the most free space for maps.
 

  Hide contents

NTFS 4K

  31,162,879 KB total disk space.
  21,568 KB in 7 files.
  72 KB in 13 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  44,167 KB in use by the system.
  42,544 KB occupied by the log file.
  31,097,072 KB available on disk.

  4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
  7,790,719 total allocation units on disk.
  7,774,268 allocation units available on disk.

NTFS 16K

  31,162,879 KB total disk space.
  21,568 KB in 7 files.
  96 KB in 13 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  43,519 KB in use by the system.
  42,544 KB occupied by the log file.
  31,097,696 KB available on disk.

  16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
  1,947,679 total allocation units on disk.
  1,943,606 allocation units available on disk.

FAT32 8K

   31,130,112 KB total disk space.
   8 KB in 1 hidden files.
   16 KB in 2 files.
   31,130,080 KB are available.

   8,192 bytes in each allocation unit.
   3,891,264 total allocation units on disk.
   3,891,260 allocation units available on disk.

FAT32 16K

   31,146,496 KB total disk space.
   16 KB in 1 hidden files.
   32 KB in 2 files.
   31,146,432 KB are available.

   16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
   1,946,656 total allocation units on disk.
   1,946,652 allocation units available on disk.

exFAT 4K

  31,131,136 KB total disk space.
  4 KB in 1 files.
  8 KB in 2 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  960 KB in use by the system.
  31,130,164 KB available on disk.

  4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
  7,782,784 total allocation units on disk.
  7,782,541 allocation units available on disk.

exFAT 16K

  31,153,664 KB total disk space.
  32 KB in 2 files.
  32 KB in 2 indexes.
  0 KB in bad sectors.
  256 KB in use by the system.
  31,153,344 KB available on disk.

  16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
  1,947,104 total allocation units on disk.
  1,947,084 allocation units available on disk.

Some images to show the space used/free on same card

  Hide contents

 

Any speed overheads on addressing the memory in the different formats ?. I did wonder.

[varooom]

1 minute ago, Tell said:

Any speed overheads on addressing the memory in the different formats ?. I did wonder.

https://crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskmark/

 

I am sure we could test, but need a few runs to get evened out results

[Davab]

1 hour ago, Tell said:

 

No it's the manufacturing differences between 32gb fat32 SD cards so what was universally possible isn't now since the maps have grown to make the marginal differences kick in. With a Mac you do the Keka clean after its copied across which means you got the Mac overheads on the copy before the clean. 

Hmm, makes sense.

 

The SD cards have never been in the MAC though so no overheads there. I did check fully, (well as much as I could on the Dell laptop that no hidden folders, files etc lurking) and with the USB as I said used Keka to unzip and then Clean My Drive after unzipping onto the stick and all went swimmingly.

 

Anyway, going to stick with USB now, got 2 x SanDisk Ultra Dual Drive 64gb, so USB 3 Type A one end for the Skoda and Type C other end for the MBP. Fast enough for me, and although I can get by when it comes to File Allocation Tables, will leave that to more knowledgeable people than me 😉

Edited 29 December, 2022 by Davab

[Tell]

1 hour ago, Davab said:

Hmm, makes sense.

 

The SD cards have never been in the MAC though so no overheads there. I did check fully, (well as much as I could on the Dell laptop that no hidden folders, files etc lurking) and with the USB as I said used Keka to unzip and then Clean My Drive after unzipping onto the stick and all went swimmingly.

 

Anyway, going to stick with USB now, got 2 x SanDisk Ultra Dual Drive 64gb, so USB 3 Type A one end for the Skoda and Type C other end for the MBP. Fast enough for me, and although I can get by when it comes to File Allocation Tables, will leave that to more knowledgeable people than me 😉

 

It's CleanMyDrive you do when it's copied over to SD or USB. Think I missed typed Keka above 🙄. So those Mac overheads gets stripped off once copied.

 

So you got that:

 

Map file + Mac Overheads > 32gb.

 

You can't copy it over since the Mac Overheads are on it till you do CleanMyDrive. A catch22 situation. Even if you strip them off before the copy some overheads get put on hence you do the CleanMyDrive but either way the manufacturing differences are now coming into play with some people even without Macs.

 

Think we'll all be using bigger SD cards or USB next time round.

[Davab]

3 hours ago, Tell said:

 

It's CleanMyDrive you do when it's copied over to SD or USB. Think I missed typed Keka above 🙄. So those Mac overheads gets stripped off once copied.

 

So you got that:

 

Map file + Mac Overheads > 32gb.

 

You can't copy it over since the Mac Overheads are on it till you do CleanMyDrive. A catch22 situation. Even if you strip them off before the copy some overheads get put on hence you do the CleanMyDrive but either way the manufacturing differences are now coming into play with some people even without Macs.

 

Think we'll all be using bigger SD cards or USB next time round.

 

Exactly re the Catch 22. Found that out with a 32gb usb that I had 🙄 hence then moving up to the 64gb.

 

What IS annoying me though are the 32gb SD cards. Everything with them has been done solely on a Windows 10 Dell laptop (too old to run Win 11) Most people have been able to fit the files on, but I can't? 🤨 As first post, they were originally formatted with smallest cluster, can't find any hidden files and didn't reformat (initially anyway) just deleted previous maps, it doesn't matter at the end of the day, just ANNOYING ME 🤯, nothing to do with MAC overheads as not been near the MAC

 

Ah well, one of the mysteries of the Universe 🪐

[Tell]

17 minutes ago, Davab said:

 

Exactly re the Catch 22. Found that out with a 32gb usb that I had 🙄 hence then moving up to the 64gb.

 

What IS annoying me though are the 32gb SD cards. Everything with them has been done solely on a Windows 10 Dell laptop (too old to run Win 11) Most people have been able to fit the files on, but I can't? 🤨 As first post, they were originally formatted with smallest cluster, can't find any hidden files and didn't reformat (initially anyway) just deleted previous maps, it doesn't matter at the end of the day, just ANNOYING ME 🤯, nothing to do with MAC overheads as not been near the MAC

 

Ah well, one of the mysteries of the Universe 🪐

I think it's the make of your 32gb SD cards that render small differences in available space. The one I used was Dane Elec Proline 200 this time round...  capacity is 32,307,675,136 bytes (16 kilobytes format).

 

6 months before. 31,902,400,512 bytes (32 kilobytes). SanDisk Extreme Pro.

 

12 months before. 31,902,400,512 bytes (32 kilobytes). SanDisk Extreme Pro.

 

Reformatting this year's card to 32 kilobytes. Dane Elec. 32,316,063,744 bytes.

 

All Fat32. Expect your capacity is somewhat less on the one you couldn't get it on. The SanDisk ones were more liberal with usageable memory. It's the manufacturer differences in the finished product that makes it marginal. Sure it will be too marginal six months on.

 

 

[Davab]

Wow, that is interesting, never realised there could be such a difference just down to different manufacturers!

 

You could understand maybe a few MB, but 400MB is insane, and that would certainly explain it. 
 

Thank you for putting an old man out of his misery 👍🙂 (although now, of course, I’m going to have to fire up the old laptop when I get a sec, reformat the cards and check out exactly what free space I’m showing 🙄 rabbit hole here I come)

Edited 29 December, 2022 by Davab

[Tell]

In the old days of floppy disks the bad sectors would swallow up memory after check disk with that slash f was run. Then your available memory came down. Solid state variations in manufacturer give you differences. Chkdsk /f and it's window command does fix solid state SDs which are playing up, not sure about busying out memory areas thou.

 

Still researching which is the best way forward bigger higher performance SD card like the one I got or USB, like the one I got. Latter depends on whether it is kitted out for USB3 or is just compatible for USB3 via using USB2. Say one thing but don't mean it on speed. It's the bus speed in the unit which is the deciding factor.

 

Mib2 highs have these inside them

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Tegra-3-SoC.72804.0.html

 

Could stop musing and experiment. Higher up on the thread someone did the map update in 20 minutes on a USB. Not sure whether they updated the speed of mib2 highs during the life or not. Mine is the 2016 unit fitted to Golf 7s and the like at the time.

 

In laptop terms accessing memory off board can be slower than on-board where SD is considered better since its accessed on board than a fangled USB board in a tower unit they tended to be USB2 in the early days of USB3, had a combined SD reader, slow off board media unit connection. The question hangs on whether mib2 high unit really has a usb3 speed interface or just compatible. 

[Davab]

Mine is also the 2016 unit going off the spec sheet, and using the USB 3 stick took 45 mins for the update. Have to say I'm personally happy with the speed, but will watch with interest as you carry out your tests 🙃

[Tell]

On 30/12/2022 at 23:11, Davab said:

Mine is also the 2016 unit going off the spec sheet, and using the USB 3 stick took 45 mins for the update. Have to say I'm personally happy with the speed, but will watch with interest as you carry out your tests 🙃

David would you like to run

 

https://crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskmark/

 

On your USB3 and do a screen shot. Some USB3 sticks aren't as fast as others. I've seen some bad Kingston ones. It might be reducing you to SD speeds.

 

I'm still nibbling away at testing SD v USB3. Seem to have got SD SanDisk ExtrePro speeds of 95MB/s verses 175 on a

SanDisk 128GB Ultra Flair USB 3.0 Flash Drive, up to 150mb/s read speeds, Tropical Blue

[Tell]

On 27/11/2022 at 05:29, BooBoo124 said:

My usb installed the maps pack in 25mins. Incase you wish to compare. 

Like David can I get you to run

 

https://crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskmark/

 

On your USB3 drive and say which model it is since you are getting fast map updates. Out of line with the normal SD one but out of line with David's USB3 experience. Suspect your USB3 drive is fast. If you can say which model it is. Ditto David.

[Davab]

1 hour ago, Tell said:

David would you like to run

 

https://crystalmark.info/en/software/crystaldiskmark/

 

On your USB3 and do a screen shot. Some USB3 sticks aren't as fast as others. I've seen some bad Kingston ones. It might be reducing you to SD speeds.

 

I'm still nibbling away at testing SD v USB3. Seem to have got SD SanDisk ExtrePro speeds of 95MB/s verses 175 on a

SanDisk 128GB Ultra Flair USB 3.0 Flash Drive, up to 150mb/s read speeds, Tropical Blue

 

Hi Tell, will be a few days before I can run it, doesn't appear to be MAC compatible and so will have to dig out WIN laptop when I've got a few hours spare 🙄

[k.young]

On 24/11/2022 at 12:32, itsbrun said:

I have downloaded the second link the Volkswagen one , extracted to formatted  SD and loaded to my car (skoda octavia with columbus)

all worked perfectly first time .

 

thank you everybody for your excellent information and help .

 

 

So I'm going to be really really cheeky.......as only an Irish person could.

 

Do you still have the SD card with the correct map files on it??

 

I'm getting a 191 L&K later in the week and I'm a numpty when it comes to all this formatting and extracting and zipping stuff.

[Tell]

25 minutes ago, k.young said:

 

 

So I'm going to be really really cheeky.......as only an Irish person could.

 

Do you still have the SD card with the correct map files on it??

 

I'm getting a 191 L&K later in the week and I'm a numpty when it comes to all this formatting and extracting and zipping stuff.

Well if like Seat the Mib2 High units which a Columbus is doesn't come with the map on an SD it's pre installed. It's the updates you you only download with a standard SD card of the correct size and format or USB. This isnt the latest Columbus map update thread, chump back the top link and look for the pinned.

 

If it's the card based Amundsen (spelling) one you are getting which is called generically a mib2 standard that's if it's second hand the pinned thread for that.

 

If it's a 2020 model on then it's a mib3 with no map card like the mib2 high but over the air updates if you are in paid contract connected service period. Unlike Seat you lucky owners of Skoda mib3s can do a similar map update of the mib3 unit for free like you could with mib2 highs (Skoda folk tell me here). Seat can't with mib3 they are running to the old procedure of not giving you free map updates. Getting those mib3 FeCs adjusted, not sure if the story early days so Seat people are stuffed on that one.

 

So question is-

 

Mib2 high or low ? (Second hand cars only / pre 2020 facelift)

 

Mib3 in connect contract or out ? (think there are two contracts, here pass on whether you need both, free for the first year)

 

If its a mib2 standard sold without the map card you can but them on eBay. Get a 32gb card if you plan to drive the breadth of Europe else a 16gb card is adequate. You just pop it in for Skodas.

 

 

Edited 22 January, 2023 by Tell
readability

[k.young]

5 hours ago, Tell said:

Well if like Seat the Mib2 High units which a Columbus is doesn't come with the map on an SD it's pre installed. It's the updates you you only download with a standard SD card of the correct size and format or USB. This isnt the latest Columbus map update thread, chump back the top link and look for the pinned.

 

If it's the card based Amundsen (spelling) one you are getting which is called generically a mib2 standard that's if it's second hand the pinned thread for that.

 

If it's a 2020 model on then it's a mib3 with no map card like the mib2 high but over the air updates if you are in paid contract connected service period. Unlike Seat you lucky owners of Skoda mib3s can do a similar map update of the mib3 unit for free like you could with mib2 highs (Skoda folk tell me here). Seat can't with mib3 they are running to the old procedure of not giving you free map updates. Getting those mib3 FeCs adjusted, not sure if the story early days so Seat people are stuffed on that one.

 

So question is-

 

Mib2 high or low ? (Second hand cars only / pre 2020 facelift)

 

Mib3 in connect contract or out ? (think there are two contracts, here pass on whether you need both, free for the first year)

 

If its a mib2 standard sold without the map card you can but them on eBay. Get a 32gb card if you plan to drive the breadth of Europe else a 16gb card is adequate. You just pop it in for Skodas.

 

 

 

 

Fairly sure it is the Mib2 high going by your breakdown.

 

It's a mid 2019 build L&K model with the Columbus infotainment.

Definitely not the 2020 facelift.

[Tell]

13 minutes ago, k.young said:

 

 

Fairly sure it is the Mib2 high going by your breakdown.

 

It's a mid 2019 build L&K model with the Columbus infotainment.

Definitely not the 2020 facelift.

Yes you need this thread. It runs on an internal SSD. To update you want to get a 64gb SD class 10 or higher in exFat, or USB formatted to NTFS. The current release is pushing the limits of 32gb SD cards so next time I'm sure it will pop all 32gb cards. Just pops some at the minute. Have been looking into it this time round for the next.

 

Edited 22 January, 2023 by Tell
tidy

[k.young]

On 22/01/2023 at 20:17, Tell said:

Yes you need this thread. It runs on an internal SSD. To update you want to get a 64gb SD class 10 or higher in exFat, or USB formatted to NTFS. The current release is pushing the limits of 32gb SD cards so next time I'm sure it will pop all 32gb cards. Just pops some at the minute. Have been looking into it this time round for the next.

 

 

I just had a new Sandisk 32gb class 10 delivered today.

 

It will suffice for this update??

[k.young]

Also.......is their anyway of exporting saved locations onto a card/drive so I can transfer them from my current car onto the 2019 later this week??

[Tell]

1 hour ago, k.young said:

Also.......is their anyway of exporting saved locations onto a card/drive so I can transfer them from my current car onto the 2019 later this week??

Try to copy the unzipped all Europe file onto it. They are SanDsk Extreme Pro I've been using. Manufacturing differences do make a difference as the files get close to bridging the 32GB size.

 

Possibly the next release won't due to how the cartography getting bigger. I'm expecting one will need 64gb next time round. I've identified that SD cards won't run above 100MB/s in the unit so you don't get any speed increase in the ones rated above 100MB/s it won't have the matching chip for that (I don't reckon). If you do use a USB that needs to be in NTFS. Above 32GB SD cards should be exFat.

 

Suspect this time round you will be fine. Keep it in Fat32 but you should not need to reformat it. Don't touch the format.

Edited 24 January, 2023 by Tell

[Tell]

23 hours ago, k.young said:

Also.......is their anyway of exporting saved locations onto a card/drive so I can transfer them from my current car onto the 2019 later this week??

Just read your follow on question. Not to my knowledge it would be low level programming in the system. I used Co-pilot previously and extracted the coordinates and names out using a mapping program. I documented that on the SeatCupra site then used the Skoda trick, yes it's a Skoda trick I was told, you import them in as coordinates to a user POI. Tap the spot of the POI and saves as a destination. That works. The problem is now that VW / Skoda took down the import web based program that people were using. There is a solution, there are some macro excel sheet programs around or you use Poinspector. I use Poinspector and became the programmers unofficial technical author.

 

https://poinspect0r.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

It does need some skills. It can be used to import speed cameras and your own POIs. I run with five categories. The four types of cameras off the paid speed camera database + my own favourites which is the destination file I talked about.

 

Being a GPS enthusiast I don't trust mapping system POIs they are often out so "I walk the street" using Streetview and Google Maps to get the exact x,y decimal coordinates. That's inline with what came off the Co-pilot export. So I've added to that, some 200+ saved destinations, then keep two cars up-to-date with these. 

 

The car imports a type of dbase file with checksums for POIs. Poinspector and those excel macro sheets you come across import the x,y coordinates, generate the dbase type of file with the checksums in it. That's basically  what the VW and Skoda webpages did when they were active. You can use SQL to open these files up. There was a preoccupation of doing this at one stage in the development of the RNS / Mib units over getting the beep for the speed camera at the right time. Mib2 it's computed automatically, so that history. If you got traffic sign recognition you get plenty of beeps if speeding and don't need a speed camera database.

[k.young]

On 24/01/2023 at 23:14, Tell said:

Just read your follow on question. Not to my knowledge it would be low level programming in the system. I used Co-pilot previously and extracted the coordinates and names out using a mapping program. I documented that on the SeatCupra site then used the Skoda trick, yes it's a Skoda trick I was told, you import them in as coordinates to a user POI. Tap the spot of the POI and saves as a destination. That works. The problem is now that VW / Skoda took down the import web based program that people were using. There is a solution, there are some macro excel sheet programs around or you use Poinspector. I use Poinspector and became the programmers unofficial technical author.

 

https://poinspect0r.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

It does need some skills. It can be used to import speed cameras and your own POIs. I run with five categories. The four types of cameras off the paid speed camera database + my own favourites which is the destination file I talked about.

 

Being a GPS enthusiast I don't trust mapping system POIs they are often out so "I walk the street" using Streetview and Google Maps to get the exact x,y decimal coordinates. That's inline with what came off the Co-pilot export. So I've added to that, some 200+ saved destinations, then keep two cars up-to-date with these. 

 

The car imports a type of dbase file with checksums for POIs. Poinspector and those excel macro sheets you come across import the x,y coordinates, generate the dbase type of file with the checksums in it. That's basically  what the VW and Skoda webpages did when they were active. You can use SQL to open these files up. There was a preoccupation of doing this at one stage in the development of the RNS / Mib units over getting the beep for the speed camera at the right time. Mib2 it's computed automatically, so that history. If you got traffic sign recognition you get plenty of beeps if speeding and don't need a speed camera database.

 

Thanks a million for getting back to me.

 

That all seems way above my paygrade.....but thanks for trying to help.