Gearbox (DQ381) in Emergency Mode

[Jamie1991]

I own an Octavia MKIII 2018 with 7-speed DSG (DQ381). I bought the car 7 months ago from an online car supermarket and have had it serviced once at my local Skoda dealer. Prior to that it has had one service done at an independent garage by the previous owner. It has around 50k miles on the clock. For the past week and a bit we have had an intermittent DSG fault "gearbox in emergency mode, safe to drive on" with an engine warning light and the car not selecting odd (1,3,5,7) gears. The gearbox warning goes away and gears select normally when the engine is switched off and on and the engine warning light goes out after a few miles before the fault recurs over the next couple of days. I have plugged in a cheap fault reader which is displaying P173500 (position sensor for clutch 1 - electrical malfunction passive / ableogenesis).

 

The first available diagnostic slot at either of our local dealers is December but, reading this forum, I suspect the mechatronic unit is failing (though it seems this is more common on the DQ200 gearbox) and, if so, Skoda will suggest replacing it at significant expense. My first instinct had been to let Skoda have a look in the first instance (it may not even be a mechatronic failure..) and impress my disappointment that the gearbox would develop a major fault at 4 years and 50k miles (before its first oil change is even due) in the hope that, accepting the car is out of warranty, they might be able to contribute to the repair cost on the basis of it being unfit for purpose. It looks like this is a bit of a can of worms and the contribution offered (if any) varies considerably.

 

I would be grateful for any insight on other options. I do wonder whether, given the car is out of warranty and the likelihood of significant contribution from Skoda seems low, whether asking an independent transmission specialist to look at / repair / replace the DSG might offer better value for money? Has anyone had this done or does this seem unwise? It seems the general advice is to let Skoda deal with the DSG as it is a relatively specialised component

[ApertureS]

1. Why arent you going back to the seller - If youre in the UK you have a years warranty on purchases minimum (although technically after 6 months you have to prove the fault was already there when you purchased the goods)

2. Why are you only looking at a Skoda main agent and not a independent gearbox specialist that probably has more knowledge that the main dealer and could possibly offer a repair option. 

3. The Clutch 1 position sensor is an odd one and doesnt make much sense as these clutches are hydraulically controlled so dont really have position sensors as such, a better more specific code reader could help. 

4. Contribution from a main dealer will probably be £0, they generally only offer this for long time customers with a track record of using a main agent.

 

Please add your location and car details to your profile, will help people specify your issues and recommend locations near you.

[Jamie1991]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I wasn't aware of the 12 month warranty. Certainly I had seen the 6 month rule under the sale of goods act (I think) and had ruled out being able to ask the seller for repair as there's no evidence at the moment that the fault was there when I bought the car. Obviously if it becomes evident there was a fault at that time I'll be straight back to them otherwise if there is more protection than I realised could you point me in the way of the relevant legal stuff? 

 

The couple of reasons I had been planning to take it to Skoda was the hope of some sort of contribution from them (thanks for your opinion, it looks increasingly unlikely) and other posts on the forum where the main dealer has been suggested for DSG faults. Perhaps have been cars in warranty so I've taken the advice out of context. 

 

Thanks for your note on the clutch sensor, certainly it's a very cheap code reader. If more comes to light I'll update here. 

 

I've updated my profile 👍

[Gaz]

32 minutes ago, Jamie1991 said:

Certainly I had seen the 6 month rule under the sale of goods act (I think)....

 

More likely the Consumer Rights Act:

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/advice/how-does-the-consumer-rights-act-protect-you-when-you-buy-a-car

 

Gaz

[Jamie1991]

Update in case it is useful for others in future. The car has now been into the Skoda dealer who have, as expected, confirmed a mechatronic module has failed and advised replacement. They have advised that only the failed module, rather than the whole mechatronic, needs to be replaced and have quoted just under £1500 to supply and fit. In the meantime a local gearbox independent has quoted £1100 to remove and send away the mechatronic for repair and I have been quoted £2600 by a separate independent to replace the entire mechatronic with a new one. 

 

As the replacement module will be custom ordered with no estimated date of delivery to the dealer (we need the car for several long journeys over the next couple of months) and the independent is the cheaper option upfront it is likely this is the route I will go down.

[varooom]

I don't suppose you was given the exact fault.

I have seen a USA Audi TPI that describes your code (but the symptom must match) and there was 50k miles or 48 months max on warranty.

 

You would like to hope the dealers checked the TPI documents for you when they had the car in, but you can check yourself for less than a tenner.

[Jamie1991]

Didn't get the exact fault beyond it being a transmission control unit but the part number being replaced is 0GC92771HVI1.

 

Looks like they have checked to be fair - the invoice says "Confirmed gearbox warning light on. Carried out ODIS test. Defective mechatronics module. Requires module replaced as per TPI."

 

Unfortunately I'm also just above 50k miles, thanks for the heads up though 🙂

[Ootohere]

The service guidelines and recommendations and schedule for servicing of the DQ381 is @80,000 miles.  What are Skoda / VW saying about the failure.  Skoda not Customer Services, actual factory engineers? 

[Jamie1991]

43 minutes ago, toot said:

The service guidelines and recommendations and schedule for servicing of the DQ381 is @80,000 miles.  What are Skoda / VW saying about the failure.  Skoda not Customer Services, actual factory engineers? 

 

I haven't had contact with Skoda direct - what is the best way to contact them? Would it just be through their customer services number / email?  

[Ootohere]

It would be and that is the Contractor that runs VW customer services, then you get a communications manager, then eventually a Resolution Manager, then no further on sadly.   But soon we will know how these DQ381,s are concerning longevity and fundamental flaws.    No help now sadly.  

 

 

Edited 8 December, 2022 by toot

[TheClient]

On 13/11/2022 at 17:02, Jamie1991 said:

Thanks for your reply.

 

I wasn't aware of the 12 month warranty. Certainly I had seen the 6 month rule under the sale of goods act (I think) and had ruled out being able to ask the seller for repair as there's no evidence at the moment that the fault was there when I bought the car. Obviously if it becomes evident there was a fault at that time I'll be straight back to them otherwise if there is more protection than I realised could you point me in the way of the relevant legal stuff? 

 

The couple of reasons I had been planning to take it to Skoda was the hope of some sort of contribution from them (thanks for your opinion, it looks increasingly unlikely) and other posts on the forum where the main dealer has been suggested for DSG faults. Perhaps have been cars in warranty so I've taken the advice out of context. 

 

Thanks for your note on the clutch sensor, certainly it's a very cheap code reader. If more comes to light I'll update here. 

 

I've updated my profile 👍

The consumer rights act recourse after 6 months is not quite as literal as you might assume.

 

The principles that underpin it are as described, satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose.

 

Certainly things are more straight forward within 6 months. There's not much onus on the purchaser to prove anything other than show the faulty item / behaviour.

 

After 6 months, the onus falls to the purchaser to prove. But that doesn't mean you need a scan at putchase date showing that very same fault was always present, sure that would do it, but my opinion is it is more open than that.

 

So, for example, if there is a design or manufacture issue that causes a reasonable number of vehicles to fail in the same way, prematurely,  and a tpi might go part way in establishing that, then the fault was a vulnerability from purchase, and it was just a question of when... so you could say the fault vulnerability was present from outset. 

 

I don't think a failure of that magnitude within a( few years?) Of your purchasng it, show the product was fit for purpose at sale.

 

You can try and put this to your selling dealer yourself and guage response. Some sort of engineers report acknowledging the issue is a known early failure item would help establish the requirements of the act.

 

If they play hardball then a lawyer's letter,  small claims court process may assist if the facts support recourse.. of course if they are resistant you have to way up the hassle factor and time and take a call.... 

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

Edited 9 December, 2022 by TheClient

[grldtnr]

Currently going  through the Consumer rights issue on a totally unrelated item, but the basic tennant's remain, the goods have to be fit for purpose, regardless of whether the item is new , unused or used pre- owned ,up to a period of 6 yrs from manufacture.

In my case, it's a motor scooter, the engine seized at 4000 miles, it's a fault not discernable from a visual inspection from outside, so can be argued an inherent fault from the get go, defective parts or materials.

Firstly, you need to contact the seller, for them to be given a chance to repair, replace or refund within 6 months of purchase, if you cannot get a resolution from the trader, contact the trade associations if the seller belongs to one and ask for a dispute resolution,  from an independent arbitrator, if that doesn't sort the problem then it's a clear case of a small claims court, but this does mean the car has to be below a value, which may not apply in your situation.

Before you do that, you must write a letter, stating of your intention to start a small claims case, this is a final last chance for the trader to act before you process a claim.

The Citizens Advice Bureau can advise, if there is such an organisation in your area.

But in essence you have a strong case be as long as you reported the facts to the seller within 6 months of purchase.

[Ootohere]

@Jamie1991 any update? Good news?

[Jamie1991]

Thanks for all your responses and apologies for the delayed reply as I've been busy with work. 

 

@toot - Skoda customer services and the dealer have declined any goodwill payment / compensation with CS saying "we are not financially regulated" and to speak to the dealer. On asking CS to escalate within their own team they contacted the dealer directly who advised, as expected, they would not support any goodwill or compensation on the basis the car has only been serviced there once (in my defence, that is all that's been due). I've also tried to speak with the dealer directly between times but have got nothing back. 

 

@TheClient @grldtnr - thanks for the information you've both provided. I think I will have difficulty claiming the fault was there (as such) when I bought the car as I've had it for over 6 months and several thousand miles on the clock before the fault developed. The suggestion of an inherent fault with the gearbox is the reason I had held out for Skoda offering some sort of compensation but it doesn't look like that's a battle the consumer is going to win any time soon. I suspect as long as VAG maintain the gearbox is fit for purpose (even if there is a TPI for the fault) re-sellers will use this as a defence.

 

Ultimately I want to make it clear I'm not looking for a free ride - I accept that second hand cars will develop faults and it is a risk you run. It is annoying that VAG don't take a different attitude given an apparent abundance of owners with DSG (and specifically mechatronic) failures but, as above, the hassle factor has to be taken into consideration. For me, I have asked the local independent to go ahead with booking us in to have the mechatronic repaired and I hope that will be the end of it! 

 

Thanks for everyone's input. Hopefully this thread will be of some use to another reader in the future. 

[Ootohere]

 

 

[johnny cabbage head]

Interesting post and rather concerning as well, I was about to buy a 2022 150 bhp TDI superb estate, in replacement for my current 150bhp tdi Manual Superb estate as a retirement present to myself, However I am very concerned that I am not embarking on a route to frustration and worry by replacing my flawless Manual tdi with a 7 speed DSG model.

There seems to be an emerging trend of DQ381 DSG Failures reaching VAG forums and the very useful video posted by Toot   above also seems to suggest that there is a growing Trend of owners let down BY Skoda /VAG Dealerships leaving an opening for companies like this one shown in the video.

 

I am looking at Towing a 1300kg Caravan with my replacement car  in DSG form , I have noted owners saying their cars only pull away in 2nd gear, and on the BHP forum from india there was a very long list of people saying they thought the DQ381 gearshifting was erratic and especially dangerous pulling accross Roundabouts, which is something you dont want when pulling a 23 foot caravan behind you.

 

By looking at Erwin Skoda I found out that the car I am looking at  is a DQ381 DSG Gearbox, the salesman knows nothing about the intricacies of such a complex piece of kit and once he has the money does he really care ?

It seems VAG are letting their customers down Badly concerning DSG Problems and will wriggle out of any Moralistic duty of customer care.

 

Im not attempting to Hiijack This thread just looking for advice /experiences from other DSG owners

 

Can anyone else towing with a DSG DQ381 on here give any advice on their experiences with this box whilst towing, (most caravan owners dont realise what gearbox they are running until the SHTF Moment) should I stick to a manual Gearbox  in light of these issues or have they been engineered out on 2022 models ??

Thanks in adavance and very sorry to hear of the woes Jamie 1991 Encountered

 I sincerely  hope Jamie 1991 Fixed his problem via an independant, would be interesting to see what his final outcome was as well for future referance of other owners.

 

[Jamie1991]

I got the gearbox fixed at an independent garage in Glasgow. I've not had any issues since and have done a trip to Aberdeen and back (as well as daily use) since so fingers crossed. Any future issues I'll check in with the garage again and report back. 

 

If future readers are near my neck of the woods (central belt) there are two major independent automatic transmission places in Glasgow who had different options for sorting the issue (one significantly more costly). My understanding is I shouldn't name the garages on the forum to avoid advertising etc. Besides that the gearbox is obviously complex and I'm ignorant to its specifics so I would think it's worth checking Google and speaking to both anyway. 

 

I don't tow so can't really add anything in this regard. When the DSG is working I've personally found it to be pretty smooth and haven't found the issues with erratic changes you describe above

 

Good luck with your purchase whatever you decide to do. Would you consider getting an aftermarket warranty (making sure it covers the DSG & mechatronic) for a bit of peace of mind for it's duration? 

[Redboy]

Firstly most cars develop faults. Before we panic what’s the failure rate? How was the car driven? I.E. thrashed, towing heavy /overweight loads, remapped, driven poorly…I.E. moving the DSG lever whilst in motion? I am not removing blame from VAG or particularly Skoda, which often seems to take a long time to respond to faults commonly reported on this forum, cam chain tensioner, abs modules and sunroof surround cracking spring to mind. Although I have experienced 2 of those faults, each case required a bit of negotiation with the dealer. Never was there any admission that the problem was indeed common. @johnny cabbage head As for departing roundabouts, if you press the accelerator pedal firmly whilst at a halt, I’m you will be fine, regardless whether manual or DSG, if you are towing a 23 ft caravan, you’ll still need a decent gap to pull out. 

[Ootohere]

So just so those that have a DQ381 know, use someone with all the gear and more than ideas if having it serviced at the 80,000 miles or even sooner. 

Best stick with a VW Authorised repairer, and let them mess it up if anyone will.

 

Be sure to have a valid warranty running that will cover failures of a DQ381 DSG.  or even a DQ200 DSG, maybe any DSG.

Skoda / VW Extended / or after the manufacturers warranties that do not exclude them. 

 

Time will tell with DQ381,s, but Driver Error is not going to be the issue.  The Manufacturers service schedule and procedures might well be.

 

See the vid on the Servicing of a DQ381.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/509581-7-gear-4x4-dsg-gearbox-error-codes-for-a-2018-tsi-kodiaq

 

Edited 16 February, 2023 by toot

[johnny cabbage head]

1 hour ago, Redboy said:

Firstly most cars develop faults. Before we panic what’s the failure rate? How was the car driven? I.E. thrashed, towing heavy /overweight loads, remapped, driven poorly…I.E. moving the DSG lever whilst in motion? I am not removing blame from VAG or particularly Skoda, which often seems to take a long time to respond to faults commonly reported on this forum, cam chain tensioner, abs modules and sunroof surround cracking spring to mind. Although I have experienced 2 of those faults, each case required a bit of negotiation with the dealer. Never was there any admission that the problem was indeed common. @johnny cabbage head As for departing roundabouts, if you press the accelerator pedal firmly whilst at a halt, I’m you will be fine, regardless whether manual or DSG, if you are towing a 23 ft caravan, you’ll still need a decent gap to pull out. 

Thanks for the response, indeed Im trying to ascertain what the actual failure rate is on these boxes, I know the only people who  usually post about their DSG box is 99% when a problem occurs and there are lots of people who are likely very happy with their DSG boxes who we never hear from

 

Regarding the Roundabout Dilema, it appears that the scenario occurs as you are slowing up approaching (coasting towards the roundabout ready to stop but also ready to push through if a gap is there) that seems to be when the hesitation is reported, as you slow down but see a nice clear Gap and accelerate over the roundabout, people report that there is a 3 second gap before any response which must seem like a lifetime on a roundabout even more worrying with said caravan on the back, I wonder if this is a common experience with DSG gearboxes  ?

[varooom]

@johnny cabbage headYou will have to take this with a pinch of salt, but I have TPI (Technical Product Information) documents for faults on some cars.

 

The DQ200 faults far outweigh the DQ381 documents 10:1

 

This is anecdotal as it could also be that there are more DQ200 boxes fitted, but I believe they are tougher boxes overall myself.

[johnny cabbage head]

2 hours ago, Jamie1991 said:

I got the gearbox fixed at an independent garage in Glasgow. I've not had any issues since and have done a trip to Aberdeen and back (as well as daily use) since so fingers crossed. Any future issues I'll check in with the garage again and report back. 

 

If future readers are near my neck of the woods (central belt) there are two major independent automatic transmission places in Glasgow who had different options for sorting the issue (one significantly more costly). My understanding is I shouldn't name the garages on the forum to avoid advertising etc. Besides that the gearbox is obviously complex and I'm ignorant to its specifics so I would think it's worth checking Google and speaking to both anyway. 

 

I don't tow so can't really add anything in this regard. When the DSG is working I've personally found it to be pretty smooth and haven't found the issues with erratic changes you describe above

 

Good luck with your purchase whatever you decide to do. Would you consider getting an aftermarket warranty (making sure it covers the DSG & mechatronic) for a bit of peace of mind for it's duration? 

Hi Jamie thanks for the update, I will be getting the remaining 2 years skoda warranty with the car, and the general advice seems to be to get an extended warranty once the initial 3 years is about to expire, If I go for this car I will likely go for extended warranty even after the 2 years given the complexity of this transmission and the fact I will be towing about 1,000 mile a year.

So Glad you got your problem fixed and that all seems well again., thanks again for your response.

[johnny cabbage head]

Just now, varooom said:

@johnny cabbage headYou will have to take this with a pinch of salt, but I have TPI (Technical Product Information) documents for faults on some cars.

 

The DQ200 faults far outweigh the DQ381 documents 10:1

 

This is anecdotal as it could also be that there are more DQ200 boxes fitted, but I believe they are tougher boxes overall myself.

Thanks for that information  Vroom, at least  its some kind of barometer, though I think the DQ200 Boxes are more common place as you pointed out

[Ootohere]

Bump..

[classic]

What is the reason for bumping this Rooted ? You are like the Grim Reaper when it comes to dsg faults.