Battery issues and Auto Stop/Start not working

[RIncewindwiz]

Hi All

I bought a new battery (Yusa 9000 AGM YBX 9096 see pic) a couple of years ago, Although advertised by the supplier as OK for the SKoda it was not a make known the the Battery Management System.
So I used VCDS to change the serial number in the hope that technology would treat it as a new battery and work out how to charge it properly.

This seems not to have happened I've been running withoiut Auto Start Stop (except for a brief period after a long {>1hr} drive) since then {no great hardship!}). Occasionally I would get a low battery warning but it always went away after even a short drive.

Then recently a few days of short urban trips followed by parking with the side lights on for 90 minutes produced "Low Battery Charge by Driving warning" and difficulty starting.

 

Charging voltage is around 14.4 – 14.8; Not charging around 11.8 - 12.2

VCDS reports no battery related problems (as far as I can tell)

 

So any suggestions as to why the battery does not seem to get fully charged and Auto stop/start does not work

[varooom]

I know we have had a discussion in my battery adaption thread, can you take pictures of what you wrote into the gateway?

 

A recap of what's in the guide, there are 4 values...

Brand - Not important, write JCB for example

Technology type - Has to match fitted

Ah Rating - Match value on battery

Serial number - change a single digit

 

Now, odds are your battery is getting tired, can you say how many years it has been on the car?

 

 

For reference I changed my AGM original at 7 years when it's Voltage when left to rest (a long rest of a week!) was 12.1V. It still had life really, but I was not one to be left on side of the road ever.  You will know your own car much better than me, so if you feel it is on the way out, best replace before you get stuck I say.

Edited 21 January, 2023 by varooom
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[DuncanDisorderly]

Just been through months of pain diagnosing the Stop/Start system on mine, only to find it was as simple as an incorrectly coded battery causing the fault. 

For yours, battery type should be Fleece, 70ah and serial number can be anything except what's currently there. 

[RIncewindwiz]

7 hours ago, varooom said:

I know we have had a discussion in my battery adaption thread, can you take pictures of what you wrote into the gateway?

 

A recap of what's in the guide, there are 4 values...

Brand - Not important, write JCB for example

Technology type - Has to match fitted

Ah Rating - Match value on battery

Serial number - change a single digit

 

Now, odds are your battery is getting tired, can you say how many years it has been on the car?

Thanks
I downloaded and followed your excellent battery adaption thread slavishly and will have used the values you recommended (70Mah, Fleece, serial number last digit changed by 1) - I will go check as when and if the temeprature gets above freezing!

IIRC I posted that I received Adaptation Error for uninitialised control module and you advised me to take the default offered

(

Start/Stop etc has always worked as described above. I put it down initially to incorrect adaptation but then discovered your thread, went through the process about 9 months ago and its made no difference.

Edited 22 January, 2023 by RIncewindwiz

[RIncewindwiz]

5 hours ago, DuncanDisorderly said:

Just been through months of pain diagnosing the Stop/Start system on mine, only to find it was as simple as an incorrectly coded battery causing the fault. 

For yours, battery type should be Fleece, 70ah and serial number can be anything except what's currently there. 

Thx
As above, I will go check. and report all the settings - and I'll change the serial number again!

[RIncewindwiz]

OK Checked 
Capacity          70Ah
Technology     Fleeece

Manufacturer  JCB
Serial No        1111111112 changed to 2023012211

[varooom]

Just now, RIncewindwiz said:

OK Checked 
Capacity          70Ah
Technology     Fleeece

Manufacturer  JCB
Serial No        1111111112 changed to 2023012211

See how you get on with it, if the battery plays up, then time to order a replacement.

 

AGM's don't tend to fail really quickly, they tend to fade out gracefully, unless a cell goes down internally.  So you should see plenty of warning signs, good luck!

[RIncewindwiz]

Thanks.

I thought I had said . . . . .
This battery has been like this since new (it is now 2 years old).

I complained afer about 6 months but was told I could pay for some tests or go roll my hoop

Serial number changed for the first time 9 months ago.

 

Anyway, I think Ill just have to get a new battery

 

[ords]

Have you been on a good run since changing the serial no?  Can you put the battery on charge to see if it will take a full charge? If it does, stop/start should kick in depending on what consumables are on.

[RIncewindwiz]

16 hours ago, ords said:

Have you been on a good run since changing the serial no?  Can you put the battery on charge to see if it will take a full charge? If it does, stop/start should kick in depending on what consumables are on.

Charging now. Will report back

[RIncewindwiz]

Charged battery until charger turn off because fully charged
Went on short (7m) run. No autostop/start (Just the capital A with the line through it)

[ords]

Was everything switched off so no demands on the battery?

 

Have you had the car from new? A previous owner could have permanently disabled it.

[RIncewindwiz]

No lights on.

 

It used to work fine.

Then I started having problems starting on cold mornings and if I left the lights on so I changed the battery

Every since changing the battery Auto Stop/Start has not worked - except for a short while after long journeys

Edited 24 January, 2023 by RIncewindwiz

[ords]

1 hour ago, RIncewindwiz said:

No lights on.

 

It used to work fine.

Then I started having problems starting on cold mornings and if I left the lights on so I changed the battery

Every since changing the battery Auto Stop/Start has not worked - except for a short while after long journeys

I've no other suggestions.

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

On 21/01/2023 at 22:41, RIncewindwiz said:

I bought a new battery (Yusa 9000 AGM YBX 9096 see pic) a couple of years ago,

On 22/01/2023 at 17:58, RIncewindwiz said:

Serial number changed for the first time 9 months ago.

If the 'coding' wasn't done until after a year later from battery installation and the previous battery was an EFB then this might be something as the early life of the battery and it's discharging and charging will have a big influence on the battery's performance and life.

 

It's very rare to hear of a (true) faulty new battery or even old battery as the fault(s) are elsewhere.  Are there any know updates or recalls for the car?

 

Next reason batteries fail is usually charging problems, often with the alternator but could also be with the charging system (including its program perhaps(?).

 

Questions:

. What type (make/model/ amperage/settings) of battery charger are you using?

. Charged on or off the car?

, what do you mean by the charger turned off (15 hours or less doesn't sound very long (depending on charger) for a very low battery?

 

Edited 24 January, 2023 by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Got interrupted - I also meant to put you can get batteries tested at various places, mainly because they want to sell you a new one of course but there are some honest people around.

 

Are your charging figures just off one instrument have you confirmed them by using another instrument that you know to be reasonable accurate and reliable?

 

[RIncewindwiz]

HI and thanks for the interest

I'll answer as many as I can; rest tomorrow
Battery Charger Charging: Battery behaving as usual. Connected charger to battery in car (so 'on car') and left it. Came back 4 or so hours later and the charger had turned itself off 'cos battery was 'full'

Charger is a FOXSUR model FBCX122308D   12v 8A / 24v 4A charger

Charging figures from only 1 instrument (connected to cigarette lighter socket) Can do again with multimeter directly to battery terminals

VCDS does not report voltages other than terminal 30 (wherever that might be) which was reported during the scan as different values 11.4 (near the start) and 12.0v (at the end)

Off for a 30 minute M-way drive this evening (and 30 min back) so will check after that and test tomorrow

[PetrolDave]

5 minutes ago, RIncewindwiz said:

Battery Charger Charging: Battery behaving as usual. Connected charger to battery in car

DIrectly to the battery or (correctly) using the chassis terminal on the bodywork NOT the battery negative terminal?

 

Connecting directly to the battery negative terminal means the charging is not registered by the cars battery management system so it will still think the battery is not fully charged.

[ords]

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

DIrectly to the battery or (correctly) using the chassis terminal on the bodywork NOT the battery negative terminal?

 

Connecting directly to the battery negative terminal means the charging is not registered by the cars battery management system so it will still think the battery is not fully charged.

But how would that affect the chargers system into thinking the battery is not fully charged when OP said it had turned itself off because it was full?

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

1 hour ago, RIncewindwiz said:

Charger is a FOXSUR model FBCX122308D   12v 8A / 24v 4A charger

On a quick search I can't find that model number on Google so can't comment on it other than 8 amps is higher and quicker for charging which isn't always better for charging and may or may not combine with other factors to this battery's charging.

 

I would check the charger output perhaps and monitor it to check it's performing as it should - and check the battery charge showing on the battery terminals after the fully charged and the charger disconnected about 12 hours, about 15, 18 and 24 hours .  The battery would need to be resting and car not used, the idea to see how well the charge is held after settling from being fully recharged.

 

VWSkoda usually recommend 0.1 or less charging rate of the battery capacity if charger is connected to car. -

 

[PetrolDave]

13 hours ago, ords said:

But how would that affect the chargers system into thinking the battery is not fully charged when OP said it had turned itself off because it was full?

It won't and I didn't say it did, what I said was that the CAR BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM wouldn't know the battery was fully charged.

[RIncewindwiz]

Incorrectly to the two battery terminals. Can anyone give me a clue as to where to find the chassis terminal? If it s only at the other end of the battery lead I dont see the point (as battery lead connected to battery)  CANCEL THIS Found it
Charger can be found here
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Matthew00Felix-FOXSUR-Repair-Charger-Motorcycle/dp/B07W6HGMXW
  
Start Stop didn't work yesterday after what should have been 30 mins on a motorway and turned out to be an hour on back roads!!!

I happened to notice at one stage the battery charger said it was putting out 1.8A but its a 70Ah battery so up to 7A is OK?

Will finish coffee and go measure voltages (no load, under load [lights] , engine runnning) with a multimeter across the battery terminals?. Anything else I could usefully to measure.
I will get a measurement from cigarette lighter socket gadget as well

Edited 25 January, 2023 by RIncewindwiz

[PetrolDave]

4 minutes ago, RIncewindwiz said:

Incorrectly to the two battery terminals. Can anyone give me a clue as to where to find the chassis terminal? If it s only at the other end of the battery lead I dont see the point (as battery lead connected to battery)

That lead has a small amount of resistance and is used by the BMS to measure the current going into or out of the battery - so it does matter that you use the terminal at the other end of the battery lead.

[RIncewindwiz]

Multimeter readings at battery terminals
All off (no lights no ignition no engine etc) 12.29

Headlights (dipped) on   all else off           11.63

Engine running tickover  all else off        14.6 - 14.7 fluctuating
Readings taken at chassis earth differ by 0.01V from those at battery terminal

Internal readings (taken earlier) at the cigarette lighter appear to be 0.2 volt lower

 

Edited 25 January, 2023 by RIncewindwiz

[varooom]

Your values seem a little low at 12.3V after a run.

 

SOC State of Charge starts at 0% for 11.7V and 100% is 12.7V, so a 1V difference between empty and full

 

What I would recommend is to charge again your battery, and check voltage at the end of the charge cycle directly on battery terminals.

Then wait two hours, unlock car, open bonnet and again check voltage quickly, some control modules will be awake, but will give you a rough SOC.

 

There are more things we can test, but this is where I would start.

 

 

Take a read of these two SSP's to get you some useful background knowledge, and it might give you some ideas on what to test

https://procarmanuals.com/pdf-online-vag-ssp-426-start-stop-system-2009/

https://procarmanuals.com/pdf-online-vag-ssp-504-vehicle-batteries/

Edited 25 January, 2023 by varooom
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