Everything fine with the new radiator, i saw nothing more than benefits.

I am conducting some tests for the Fuel Consumption in City traffic-Mountain roads and i will post photos soon.

It's impossible to compare the G12 with the G12 Plus because the second added when the new radiator installed, if i had use it with the old-factory then yes i would have the comparison data.

I will grab the chance to mention the behaviour of some new mechanics-sellers-engineers here in GR, we the older guys we call that as ''Neohellenic".

I went to the shop (already a retail customer for years) and asked for explanations why he send to the repair shop G12 Plus while i ordered G12, the answer was ''this is what i had'', i said to him that in the past i had bought myself G12 and i remember even the position in the shelf.

''i never had G12'' he answered and as you can understand the guy was trying to deceive me, he just could say ''G12 was out of stock and i couldn't order at that time from the provider".

That guy he just lost a customer and next time that i will hear a whine "the business does not going well, i will shut the store soon" etc my first though will be ''it's 100% your fault".

Since i can not compare G12 with G12 Plus (i have changed the radiator) in performance ''just in case'' i ordered from another store G12.

https://www.teclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/80053-TD-Coolant-Concentrate-G12-G12-EN-v2.pdf

although this concerns me a bit:

G12: OAT antifreeze/coolant. No silicates, nitrate and borate free.
G12++: HOAT antifreeze/coolant. Contains some silicates. No nitrates or borates.

I read that some guys don't keep it 5 years:

G12 is pink. It cannot be mixed with any other coolant (except G12+ which is purple). It is supposed to be able to last 5 years before being changed (more frequent changes are suggested by vortexers, like every 2 years), and it has sealant and non-corrosive additives.
G12+ is purple. It's new and it can be mixed in to pink coolant systems, it replaces G12 according to VW. In all other respects it is like G12.

Edited 17 May17 May by D.FYLAKTOS

Despite what many think the German engineers aren't all they're cracked up to be (not as good as some and they themselves think they are). They also change their specifications. Silicate tea-bags anyone. Other than Germans I can't understand why other countries still hold the products in such high regard. UK I know about, marketing, and lobbying, is very good here, then we have snobbery.

Your chap at the shop is like many, particularly in the motor trade, sooner lie than admit a mistake. Not all customers are angels or honest but most, here at least, will accept mistakes happen and many will be happy with an acknowledgement of this and a verbal apology, sorting things and putting them right is also appreciated by a customer (well most, not all). A better business tends to attract and keep better customers, I've got no time for bad businesses and or bad service but also no time for bad customers, customers that make (occasional) mistakes is a different matter.

As about the G12 plus i have some results after some Km distance.

Of course since i changed the radiator i have not the same situation to compare, the system should be worked better since the old radiator had a lot ''in it's back'' after almost 25 years of use.

I use the TC-6 and the Total indication (with the Greek letter Σ) to compare the fuel consumption.

94592 Km and i had 40,5 litres

94619 Km and i had 43,6 litres

This was in City Traffic only, It's not the distance for which you can draw correct conclusions, it was 11.48 ltr/Km or 24.61 British MPG (not bad)

After a while i had to make a trip (National Highway and Mountain Route but not in high rpm)

94778 Km and i had 53,4 litres ,that’s 6.16 ltr/Km or 45.86 British MPG (very good)

To be continued...

While returning from the trip:

94778 Km and i had 53,4 litres

94940 Km and i had 63,4 litres ,that’s 6.13 ltr/Km or 46.08 British MPG (very good)

Then the City Traffic started and unfortunately the fuel consumption start rising.

94948 Km and i had 64,4 litres

94957 Km and i had 65,5 litres

94961 Km and i had 66,4 litres

94972 Km and i had 67,2 litres, that's 11,87 ltr/Km or 23.80 British MPG (not so good).

and counting...

May 2025, morning in Highway.

I will take some photos now where the temperatures rises more and in City Traffic.

Let's see how the new radiator/coolant helped the Fuel Consumption, i have data to compare with previous years.

I had 94972 Km and i had 67,2 litres then 94976 Km and i had 67,6 litres (that's only 4 km distance so i don't count this), refuel to the top and zeroing the TC-6 because the trip begins.

2 adults, gas tank full and some luggages in the trunk, Highway (100-110 km speed) and Mountain Roads.

95050 Km and i had 4,5 litres (Total fuel consumption) which means 75 km distance so fuel consumption % was 6,08 ltr/km or 46.46 British MPG (excellent).

Few luggages added and some light traffic, Highway (110-120 km speed) and Mountain Roads, 95133 Km and i had 9,8 litres (Total fuel consumption) which means 83 km distance so fuel consumption % was

6,38 or 44.28 British MPG (very good).

The results from the end of the trip in the next post, the new radiator and the new coolant helped a lot in Fuel Consumption sector.

let it run hotter (up the first fan speed cut in temp keep second speed lowish for safety) and fuel consumption WILL iprove

After an optimum very generally often with better fuel economy you have less power, all within ranges and relevancies of course.

Be interesting to see what effect on fuel economy and engine power (though you don't have a gauge measing that) that long steep climbs make and when the ambient temperature is hot plus at higher attitudes.

I don't know how well controlled the cooling is on the Felicias overall (in good condition / when new / altered) but it must be at least reasonable if not more so as you chaps have kept the cars so long and in hotter climates.

17 hours ago, nta16 said:

that long steep climbs make and when the ambient temperature is hot plus at higher attitudes.

The Mountain Root of that trip has an Λ shape (if i can characterise it like this) which means begins with turns in an uphill and after you reach the highest point it's a downhill.

The first part puts more stress in the engine and the second in the brakes.

In the top of the mountain for an instance i see the temperature to rise one click above the 90'C so it must be 92-93 'C, maybe the air is thinner to that spot but soon returns to normal.

95297 Km and i had 21 litres which means from the 94976 Km i have travelled 321 Km distance (according to the Trip meter is 321,1) the Total fuel consumption was 6,54 ltr/km or 43.19 British MPG.

The % function of the TC-6 agrees with this number, shows 6.5 % litres.

The last 16 kilometres were in traffic under hot sun (keep in mind in car were 2 persons with luggages) and this ruined a bit the Fuel Consumption but i had no time to take a picture right before the traffic started because my wife was grouching "this is dangerous, don't let the steering wheel" etc. 😆

19 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

and fuel consumption WILL iprove

I have broke all my previous records, i don't think i can get lower than where i am now.

Edited 22 June22 Jun by D.FYLAKTOS

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

"this is dangerous, don't let the steering wheel" etc. 😆

I'm not a nervous passenger but I'd never let the driver take photos, I don't even like hands-free phones in cars!

Your coolant temperature stability sounds very good (even allowing for modern coolant gauges) and your MPG (kms/litre) seems excellent and you've not complained about lack or drop in engine power so as you say you've probably got it about as good as it ever could be and better than when the car was new (shows better modern materials perhaps).

Well done - keep both hands on the steering wheel! - your wife might give you ear ache from "verbals" I would now use a more direct approach. 😄

Look,

My 2-speed system works flawlessly to this day.

First speed is between 95-97 deg.

Second speed 101-103, and to this day.

IT HAS NEVER been initiated by engine temp.

Only by the trinary switch due to the refrigerant pressure

This way I have cut down the fan operating time a huge amount.

I let the rad do as much as it can.

I can verify it is absolutely safe for the engine.

BTW the middle of my gauge is around 85-87deg

I am currently battling other issues, though.

This summer should have been the last step for the felly.

Sadly, I have to postpone it for a myriad of reasons.

If by next year I will be starting my PhD, then the felly will NOT be fully restored in the foreseeable future.

I am battling a crippling understeer.

A dying fuel pump.

And much more.

The felly will have either one of those two fates.

Either I will do that one last push and make it like new. I have gathered very very rare parts with the help of a very honourable fellow forum member.

Or I will scrap it / cold store it / sell it as is.

Generally, I still have my full interest in both of my cars, including the brera and the felly. But life is getting in the way of keeping these cars to the level I wish them to be kept.

If I am to go abroad (as most likely will be the case) I will not be taking them with me.

That means they will have to stay back home gathering dust and ageing, in this case, what can I do other than push them to the market?

Still this is something we will be examining after October.

And that's why I haven't been active here recently. Yet I always check if there is a topic my input would be needed.

Edited 22 June22 Jun by Thefeliciahacker

25 minutes ago, nta16 said:

but I'd never let the driver take photos, I don't even like hands-free phones in cars!

You are right, that's why i haven't take a picture while i was in the Mountain Roots, from now on i will take when i stop for an intermission or i arrive in the destination.

I don't use a phone while i am driving in a trip, no matter if i rings as a call or sms i leave it in my jacket's pocket, i leave my wife to act as a "secretary" if someone from the family is trying to contact with me (will phone to her because i don't pick it up). 😉

As for the fuel consumption in Summer in City i don't think i will have opportunities to take some measures, with the gas prices getting higher i use a small motorcycle to work and back home.

A Summer test (in traffic) using a/c too would be helpful but together with the problem finding a parking place every night a 100km test in City this would be a torture.

By the way i have another trip to do in few days for my Summer vacations, when i return i will bring some informations with me.

10 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

My 2-speed system works flawlessly to this day.

First speed is between 95-97 deg.

Second speed 101-103, and to this day.

IT HAS NEVER been initiated by engine temp.

Sorry but i can't understand.

1st and second speed? You mean your radiator fan speed?

95-97 and 101-103 you mean Celsius? Your Felicia coolant temperatures get so hi?

My radiator switch is 80-85 'C, why should i go one scale higher to 85-90 or more?

By the way with the G13 what you fuel consumption while travelling in Highway?

In your city there is not much traffic but what's the fuel consumption inside of it?

8 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

1st and second speed? You mean your radiator fan speed?

95-97 and 101-103 you mean Celsius? Your Felicia coolant temperatures get so hi?

yeah

8 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

95-97 and 101-103 you mean Celsius? Your Felicia coolant temperatures get so hi?

yeas celsius and no they are not high

9 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

By the way with the G13 what you fuel consumption while travelling in Highway?

average mixed circle is around 7.5L/100km

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

You are right, that's why i haven't take a picture while i was in the Mountain Roots, from now on i will take when i stop for an intermission or i arrive in the destination.

I don't use a phone while i am driving in a trip, no matter if i rings as a call or sms i leave it in my jacket's pocket, i leave my wife to act as a "secretary" if someone from the family is trying to contact with me (will phone to her because i don't pick it up). 😉

As for the fuel consumption in Summer in City i don't think i will have opportunities to take some measures, with the gas prices getting higher i use a small motorcycle to work and back home.

A Summer test (in traffic) using a/c too would be helpful but together with the problem finding a parking place every night a 100km test in City this would be a torture.

By the way i have another trip to do in few days for my Summer vacations, when i return i will bring some informations with me.

I'm a huge fan of CarPlay and the like (makes my life much easier), but the phone stays in the glove box. If something disconnects - tough.

In the UK, at least, even touching a mobile device while the engine is on, is actually illegal.

Not sure about smart watches, mind.

6 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

In the UK, at least, even touching a mobile device while the engine is on, is actually illegal.

Is there anything NOT illegal in the glorified police state?

10 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

In the UK, at least, even touching a mobile device while the engine is on, is actually illegal.

Yes we know it,we read often news from US-UK about cars,laws etc that cameras with AI can take picture of a driver which uses phone while driving.

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

The Traffic Police here shows ''tolerance'' in many cases and that's not good in many cases.

Cameras in traffic light started installing here but not in Highways,this will take many years because for many laws there is reaction from "Lefties" so there is a lot of bureaucracy and delay.

The outrageous is that in case of a road accident (them or friend of them involved) the same persons start scream hysterically:

"where are the cameras? the Police must check them, is there any material from cameras? why there is no camera in that road intersection?" etc. 🤬

12 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

yeas celsius and no they are not high

I had a 90-95 'C radiator switch and a yellow ring thermostat sensor,the car was working much higher than before around 100 'C and this terrified me.

Skoda Kantzos

https://www.autotriti.gr/autoaccessories/jpg/news/1600/KANTZOS_1600x900ds.jpg

mechanic (and ex-Felicia owner) told me to never do this again because i will have head gasket problems and try to reduce the temperature with a different radiator switch and thermostat sensor.

6 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Is there anything NOT illegal in the glorified police state?

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Wow! Pot - kettle situation. From the person that dictates all car parts must be from original engineering design and build company. We would all like to stick only to the regulations that we like and ignore those we don't but that attitude enacted makes outlaws, we have enough of those already. People fiddling with their phone can cause very serious accidents. I have seen car phones being used whilst driving causing distraction from driving longer than you have been alive.

21 hours ago, nta16 said:

We would all like to stick only to the regulations that we like and ignore those we don't but that attitude enacted makes outlaws

NO NO NO, AGAIN NO.

I am a law-abiding person, but first, I use my brain to determine if the law is rational, and then I consider my actions.

As for mobile use, I personally never do it.

i.e. here

I ain't following any speed limit.

Generally, when it comes to laws, I always follow those that, if not followed, would not only endanger the individual but also others.

Edited 24 June24 Jun by Thefeliciahacker

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I am a law-abiding person, but first, I use my brain to determine if the law is rational, and then I consider my actions.

With what you have put that makes you sound like you feel you are superior to others so some things don't apply to you and only those inferior to you (a typical stereotypical engineers' attitude). We all decide whether we want to follow any given regulation/law at any particular time and we all think some regulations/laws aren't rational to our way of thinking and beliefs, we then choose whether to stick to those regulations/laws and when we don't with laws at least we are breaking the law. We all do it, sometimes we admit it sometimes we don't, sometimes we admit it to ourselves and sometimes we don't.

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Generally, when it comes to laws, I always follow those that, if not followed, would not only endanger the individual but also others.

You seem to know better than the law makers. 😄 You are not superior we all do what you have put sometimes unfortunately our and your judgement isn't infallible, I know I have put others in danger when driving particularly when I was young and thought I knew better than others.

BTW the image doesn't show on my machine but I don't know about on other machines.

Also "the glorified police state" as you call it and the regulations and laws are to protect you and I from people like you and I and those that are worse than you and I.

I've put it before and will put it again now, if you get out to a place of work with working men and give that attitude that you have now then at some point you'll want and need some sort of protection from some sort of retaliation if only verbal. As you know in the UK most likely start with ****-taking with most working men but some are a lot more reactive and explosive if pushed. You keep your good looks by treading the path correctly. But you will do as you please it's in your character but don't be surprised when others do as they please and it doesn't please you.

Queue Kenny Rogers, The Gambler . . . 🙂

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Cue Kenny Rogers, The Gambler . . . 🙂

As requested?

"The rule of the law is preferable

to that of any individual"

Aristotle, Greece 350 BC

Official Music Video, Remastered in HD, looks and sounds good (English) sub-titles too, stil a great song and recording.

Though of course there was a time when you could just listen to a recording without the need for a video - but now you have the choice. I still think often the best pictures are on the radio - but now of course you can get pictures on the radio too, VW might call it Imagination Assist and of course it'd be to German specification standards. 😁

ETA: the problem is who makes the laws and often an individual or individuals have to rule against those laws, another circle of life.

Two songs here, Radio Ga-Ga and er, no, I've changed my mind on the second one as it's wrong (unintended pun, it was The Windmills of Your Mind, which ironically is right for me). 🙂

Edited 24 June24 Jun by nta16

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

You keep your good looks

I am not good-looking I look like Shrek