Wheel spin

[J.R.]

3 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

Do you really want to be driving along main road, (and plenty of country A and B roads in UK are full of bends at borderline frost with hard eco tyres providing little grip)

 

The answer to your question( with the underlined part replaced by "standard tyres") is yes, that is exactly what I have done for 47 years and in doing so learned to drive according to the conditions.

 

I bought some winter wheels and tyres when I was in the Somme because people died in their vehicles on main roads only a couple of kms between towns during the snowstorm of 2007 (I think), your chances of getting a breakdown recovery outside of hours are virtually zero even in normal conditions, I was pretty much autonomous in all ways having survival gear in the car (needed once!) so winter tyres were a logical step.

 

They may have been good in snow but we never got any, what I do know is that they were appalling dangerous ditchfinders whenever there was rain, so dangerous that I removed them and since then have kept the winter wheels on standby ready to change them if snow is expected.

 

I didn't bring them down here but a set of new VAG steel wheels with new winter tyres came up very cheaply (€100) and I bought them to extend the time before I have to replace my current standard tyres now down to the TWIs.

 

I will fit them when the average temps fall to 10°C but only to see if the recieved wisdom about that figure is actually correct, because I know darn well that there is barely any reduction in grip on my standard tyres, if they are noticeably better at that temp and not dangerous in the wet then they will stay on till spring, if not they are coming off.

Edited 15 November, 2023 by J.R.

[angrybeard]

Hello! Back to the Skoda fold having purchased a new Karoq over the summer, having sold my yeti in 2017.

I live rurally in North East Scotland and the factory fitted tyres just aren't cutting it in wet, greasy or icy conditions, so frustratingly after 3500 miles am looking to change the tyres.

Have looked at different options, but see little point in a 'summer'/winter mix, with wet conditions in the 'warmer' months still being a struggle. So a set of all seasons it is, and see if I can recoup a little from the OEM tyres. I had vector 4seasons on the yeti, but cross climate 2s are getting very well reviewed. Now just a question of the pain of purchase

[SurreyJohn]

If you have decided on keeping same tyres all year, then can I suggest a shortlist.   Some might not be available, or at a sensible price in your size

 

Continental all seasons contact 2

Goodyear vector 4 Seasons Gen 3

Hankook kinergy 4S2 H750

Michelin cross climate 2

Pirelli Cinturato all season SF2

Vredestein Quatrac pro +

 

But compared to the factory fit warm weather eco biased tyres, all will greatly improve your grip, and you will probably not spin the wheels again.

 

 

[Schtum]

Discussions about winter tyres apart, our three previous Tiguans and current Karoq and Yeti have all been AWD or 4x4 in Škoda's terminology.   Tall cars / SUVs with only FWD are something of triumph of form over function.  Pulling away briskly or even driving enthusiastically creates too much rearwards weight transfer.  Couple that with the previously mentioned 'eco' tyres which seem to be supplied as standard and you have a recipe for wheel spin.  

 

My son's partner bought a new FWD 1.5 TSI Q3 a couple of years ago.  Riding in it, I was amazed at how often the traction control intervened.  At my recommendation, they've recently fitted CrossClimates all round which has shown a significant improvement.   

[kodiaqsportline]

9 hours ago, angrybeard said:

Hello! Back to the Skoda fold having purchased a new Karoq over the summer, having sold my yeti in 2017.

I live rurally in North East Scotland and the factory fitted tyres just aren't cutting it in wet, greasy or icy conditions, so frustratingly after 3500 miles am looking to change the tyres.

Have looked at different options, but see little point in a 'summer'/winter mix, with wet conditions in the 'warmer' months still being a struggle. So a set of all seasons it is, and see if I can recoup a little from the OEM tyres. I had vector 4seasons on the yeti, but cross climate 2s are getting very well reviewed. Now just a question of the pain of purchase

 

Noticed the other day that Kwik-fit currently have a 15% promotion on certain tyres, those Michelins being one of them.  You may be able to find them cheaper elsewhere but worth a try anyway.

 

If your car has 215/50/18  then enter code BFDEALS at checkout and that should bring the total fitted price down to £631.60

 

Hope that helps.

Edited 18 November, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[sussamb]

Always amazes me when folks complain of wheelspin or lack of grip.  The answer is really simple, get control of your right foot! Our Karoq is still on its original tyres and no issues with grip, as an ex blue light qualified driver I'm not slow when on the road either. 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by sussamb

[kodiaqsportline]

19 minutes ago, sussamb said:

Always amazes me when folks complain of wheelspin or lack of grip.  The answer is really simple, get control of your right foot!

 

    There's nothing like someone telling others how to drive.

 

Brand new 19" 225/40/19 on our Karoq. It took around 1000 miles for it to settle down, it was never great tho. I'd been using the same right foot to drive for the past 40 years without issue. Stuck all weathers on the car after 2yr -  no wheelspin. And it was still the same right foot !

Edited 19 November, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[sussamb]

1 hour ago, kodiaqsportline said:

 

I'd been using the same right foot to drive for the past 40 years without issue.

Then you'll know you can provoke wheelspin on any car with too much right foot, whatever tyres you have on.

[SurreyJohn]

1 hour ago, sussamb said:

Always amazes me when folks complain of wheelspin or lack of grip.  The answer is really simple, get control of your right foot! Our Karoq is still on its original tyres and no issues with grip. 

How old is your Karoq, is it one of the newer ones since they started fitting warm weather, eco biased, low rolling resistance tyres.

 

Where I live (North west Wiltshire, so not in far north) we have roads below field height, that suffer muddy rain water, that often ices in winter. There are also hills (some fairly steep), and when those roads are cold and wet or frosty (and low winter sun doesn't reach them due to hedges), with icy water running off fields down the roads, you need tyres that do not spin or slide sideways, however gentle you are with your right foot.

 

It doesn't matter so much if you drive with heavy right foot these days, as cars are fitted with traction control etc, and and various other trickery, so you can't put excess power down indefinitely as it cuts it within fraction of a second to what tyres can grip with.   Yes you can still spin the wheels (with wrong tyres), but you can't do it with engine racing away anymore.
 

I also learnt to drive over 40 years ago, and then the pedals controlled the power directly, now they get overridden if you are heavy footed.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Power is not always cut with TC / ASR with the DSG,s be it a 7 speed wet or 7 speed Dry, or a manual.

 

Look at if the car has  EDL, XDS or XDS+ & then you can get 'Brakes' nipped at to stop wheel spin, and then if wheel spin is not under control there can be power cut / reduced.

There is also Off, as you might want to get a vehicle unstuck or with Snow Chains fitted. (See owners Manual.)

Then we have FWD or the AWD (Haldex) vehicles. They will not have a DQ200 DSG / 7 speed dry. 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Rooted

[Choclab]

I will remind those who may not have read the whole posting, that my Octavia had to have a new computer upgrade for the gearbox, after two years of ignoring problem by supplying dealer. Different dealer had technician test drive and came back agreeing far too much wheel spin. Checked updates and found one for dealing with excessive wheel spin. Afterwards, I never experienced wheelspin again. That is why I asked about it, as my new Karoq seemed to be demonstrating a similar problem. Reported in Octavia forum, including the upgrade number, and others have benefited from it. Nothing to do with tyres.

[J.R.]

3 minutes ago, Choclab said:

Nothing to do with tyres.

 

But still something that should be capable of either being avoided or modulated by the driver, I appreciate that the ECU can and does do so and that yours was either defective or incorrectly programmed but surely every driver should be capable of safely controlling their vehicle in the worst of winter conditions on standard tyres with all the driver aids turned off?

 

Or is that an unrealistic explanation from a previous generation?

 

I do understand that modern heavy overpowered FWD vehicles on stupidly large an widewheels make the above much more of a challenge but frankly that is how one should hone their skills in a safe area away from other traffic.

 

With every new car I have the first thing I do when snow or ice is around is to go out and play to learn the vehicles responses at its limits with the 3 letter acronyms turned off, granted its with very delicate control inputs these days.

[Ootohere]

@ChoclabDid your Octavia also require the Recall Action / Software update in the Engines from around 2018?

This was said to affect the Manuals, but there were those with DQ200 DSG,s that had issue with the box and there was eventually software updates after VW / Skoda saying not required.

Do you know when your Software Update was carried out on the Octavia,s DSG and did the engine have the Software Update as well? 

[Choclab]

On 19/11/2023 at 19:17, Rooted said:

@ChoclabDid your Octavia also require the Recall Action / Software update in the Engines from around 2018?

This was said to affect the Manuals, but there were those with DQ200 DSG,s that had issue with the box and there was eventually software updates after VW / Skoda saying not required.

Do you know when your Software Update was carried out on the Octavia,s DSG and did the engine have the Software Update as well? 

Mine was a December 2018 dealer pre reg, so don’t know of any history of the month before I bought it. Dealer never updated anything, during the 2 years I went for prepaid services, but different dealer sorted in no time, at third service. Update also sorted a notchy first gear on pull away - don’t know if that had any effect on wheelspin, but all good after that.

[Choclab]

On 19/11/2023 at 17:35, J.R. said:

 

But still something that should be capable of either being avoided or modulated by the driver, I appreciate that the ECU can and does do so and that yours was either defective or incorrectly programmed but surely every driver should be capable of safely controlling their vehicle in the worst of winter conditions on standard tyres with all the driver aids turned off?

 

Or is that an unrealistic explanation from a previous generation?

 

I do understand that modern heavy overpowered FWD vehicles on stupidly large an widewheels make the above much more of a challenge but frankly that is how one should hone their skills in a safe area away from other traffic.

 

With every new car I have the first thing I do when snow or ice is around is to go out and play to learn the vehicles responses at its limits with the 3 letter acronyms turned off, granted its with very delicate control inputs these days.

Don’t know how old you are, but I am 73, and been driving high powered cars from the off. It is only my slowing down reactions and exorbitant insurance costs, that have changed my vehicle specifications to “safe”. I never had a PROBLEM with spinning tyres, until the Octavia - which was sorted with the update. Absolutely nothing to do with my using heavy boot on my right foot, but all about the on board computer. If there had not been a fault, there would have been no update to input.

 

 

 

[J.R.]

What you are saying is not plausible, unless the throttle response is binary, ie either nothing or full throttle then a tiny bit less throttle would result in less wheelspin, some degree less than that would result in maximum traction and no wheelspin, as an older driver with a history of performance vehicles from when they had no driving aids and a cable connecting the throttle pedal to the carburetor butterflies you will have been well versed in modulating the power delivery in low grip situations.

 

I have no doubt the software upgrade has made the car more driveable and deliberately avoided terms like heavy right foot.

 

I find the initial lag between applying more throttle and the engine reacting quite disconcerting and its more noticeable now it has a lot more power to deliver, if its for an overtaking manoeuvre then I guess it would be natural to apply more throttle to compensate, at least the first time you experience it, that could cause wheelspin accelerating out of a roundabout for instance, maybe also a turbo lag effect.

[Choclab]

Which is exactly why I knew there was something wrong with the car, especially when it started to get worse, spinning up in second gear. The software upgrade cured it all, without me changing my driving style at all, so everything you have written about driving styles is irrelevant to the situation as was.

The spinning up on the Karoq is, thankfully, nothing like the Octavia did, so will keep going, with the Goodyear F1 tyres as supplied, and when they wear out, I will consider all weather tyres.

[Fatalistic]

On 20/11/2023 at 22:44, Choclab said:

….so everything you have written about driving styles is irrelevant to the situation as was.

 

I agree.

We took delivery on the 9th Jan of our 1.5 DSG Sportline: a model running on 225/40 R19 Bridgestone’s.

Someone else has mentioned the smooth start quality and that is very true.
However, chuck an incline into the equation and no amount of gentle feathering will avoid some wheel slippage when moving off.

I’ve had the benefit of professional training and the experience of a wide variety of vehicle types, driven without limit, on the public highway, so I recognise the difference between a vehicles limitations and me screwing-up.

I started using winter tyres some years ago, recognising that their performance in cold weather is superior to summer tyre (that’s a generic term that even the retailers are happy to use, acknowledging that their performance drops-off in cold weather).

I bought a set of new rims from Rainworth Skoda at Mansfield and had a set of Goodyear all-season tyres fitted. 
They are performing far better. They grip.
The tread pattern also works better when crossing Sheffield’s tram lines: they don’t squirm. They’re also quieter.

It’s unlikely that my period of ownership would pass without having to buy another set of tyres, so at least this way, I’m optimising the performance and safety of the car, particularly for when my missus uses it and extending the life of each set even though I’d replace them well before they wear down to the tread wear indicators.
Running tyres to 1.6mm is a false economy.

[smipx]

On 18/11/2023 at 21:26, kodiaqsportline said:

 

Noticed the other day that Kwik-fit currently have a 15% promotion on certain tyres, those Michelins being one of them.  You may be able to find them cheaper elsewhere but worth a try anyway.

 

If your car has 215/50/18  then enter code BFDEALS at checkout and that should bring the total fitted price down to £631.60

 

Hope that helps.

That was a good price.  I paid 

£636.00 at asda tyres may 2022 for the same set of 4

[smipx]

I would also like to say that I disagree with those who say that the wheelspin is avoidable by "appropriate driving style". I can agree if the tyres are half decent (like Michelin CrossClimate 2 SUV) but on the Turanza tyres the car (especially DSG) is the most wheel-spinny car I have ever driven in my nearly 40 years of driving a mixture of Manual, auto, DSG and Auto Haldex.  Appalingly bad.  The car is a totally different animal with the right (safe) tyre. Uphill start out of a junction turning left or right with a lowly FWD DQ200 DSG and on Turanza tyres on the 215/50/18 is frankly scary and almost 100% sure to spin the wheels badly and........ in my car the traction control does virtually nothing to help (I did even think my ESP/TCS might be faulty at one point as it has kicked in less often that it ever did on other cars I have owned - even with the front wheels fully spinning. It kisked in on my 4x4 Tiguan much more frequently when there was a spinning event (not that there was very often with the 4x4)

[Fatalistic]

For anyone looking to buy tyres at the moment, I got my Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons in 225/45 R18 XL from Halfords, fitted at home, for less than £490. 
The 225/45 R18 is closer in diameter to the 225/40 R19 I took off than the 215/50 R18 that came on the new rims.

The 225/45 was also a fair bit cheaper than the 215/50. 

[fabill]

My local tyre guy uses winter tyres all year round on his personal transport.

A few years ago I got him to fit same to my VW Polo. Improved the ride no end. Great grip too. Mind you I'm definitely no boy racer.

When Karoq needs a tyre change I'll be going down the same road.

On subject of wheel spin. I swapped from a Kamiq to a Karoq. Karoq is definitely more prone to wheel spin. But not such as it bothers me. Don't get impatient at busy junctions, though. Nipping out into traffic can be bit disconcerting🥴         

[Rory]

On 16/01/2024 at 16:34, smipx said:

I would also like to say that I disagree with those who say that the wheelspin is avoidable by "appropriate driving style". I can agree if the tyres are half decent (like Michelin CrossClimate 2 SUV) but on the Turanza tyres the car (especially DSG) is the most wheel-spinny car I have ever driven in my nearly 40 years of driving a mixture of Manual, auto, DSG and Auto Haldex.  Appalingly bad.  The car is a totally different animal with the right (safe) tyre. Uphill start out of a junction turning left or right with a lowly FWD DQ200 DSG and on Turanza tyres on the 215/50/18 is frankly scary and almost 100% sure to spin the wheels badly and........ in my car the traction control does virtually nothing to help (I did even think my ESP/TCS might be faulty at one point as it has kicked in less often that it ever did on other cars I have owned - even with the front wheels fully spinning. It kisked in on my 4x4 Tiguan much more frequently when there was a spinning event (not that there was very often with the 4x4)

 

What tyre pressures are you running?

 

I was a bit amazed to find the recommended pressure for the 215/10/18 tyres on Karoq is only 2.1bar (30.5 psi).  I thought that was too low and there's a thread on here saying the same.   I put them up to 35psi.  

 

Wheelspin, with Michelin Primacy 3 tyres,  became a nightmare.  Put them back down to around 30psi and it's much better.  It still doesn't take very much to provoke wheel spin but I can usually get going without it.  Was out early this morning at -6C driving the lanes between villages, used quite a few junctions with sharp turns, and had no issues.

 

The other thing which I've changed, although I'm not sure either way if this was an issue, is I've switched back to using standard unleaded.  The super stuff, even from Costco, seemed to make the start sharper.

 

With lower pressure I am concerned it might make the wheels more susceptible to pothole damage.

[6nations]

On 14/11/2023 at 12:43, Sanqhar said:

Tyres make a difference.  OEM Bridgestones were not good.

There are reports that Cross Climates are better.  

I have Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons which are also good.

 

tom

stopped my karoq dsg wheel  grip issue with Bridgestone Turanza all season 6 as factory fit tyres were hopeless 

[smipx]

39 minutes ago, Rory said:

 

What tyre pressures are you running?

 

I was a bit amazed to find the recommended pressure for the 215/10/18 tyres on Karoq is only 2.1bar (30.5 psi).  I thought that was too low and there's a thread on here saying the same.   I put them up to 35psi.  

 

Wheelspin, with Michelin Primacy 3 tyres,  became a nightmare.  Put them back down to around 30psi and it's much better.  It still doesn't take very much to provoke wheel spin but I can usually get going without it.  Was out early this morning at -6C driving the lanes between villages, used quite a few junctions with sharp turns, and had no issues.

 

The other thing which I've changed, although I'm not sure either way if this was an issue, is I've switched back to using standard unleaded.  The super stuff, even from Costco, seemed to make the start sharper.

 

With lower pressure I am concerned it might make the wheels more susceptible to pothole damage.

I Personally run mine at 33psi