Decisions!  Decisions! 

 

Still can't decide whether to buy a set of winter rims for the Karoq or to just go for all-seasons and be done with it.  Swap off the current Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres that came with the car and store them incase we need a new set (following a major unrepairable tyre damage event) of tyres.  I appreciate the alloys will have to brave the worst of the winter salt, but we could always buy new alloys many years down the line (we tend to keep our cars for 8yrs plus on average) if needed.

 

Thoughts on the CC2 (I know they get good online reviews, but...)?

Not that size but a 19” on a different vehicle. They’re very good.

 

Had full winters/summers and cc2 on an Octavia and not as good in deep stuff/ice but much much much better than summers.

 

Both the wife and myself run them now as we don’t currently get the snow load to justify two sets of wheels /sensors /storage.

I had 16” Michelin cross climates on my Octavia estate and they were excellent. Good in the wet and cold and were good enough for me in snow, I wasn’t going through drifts but did go over some snow covered roads in the Peak District and they coped very well. I’ve had winter tyres before and aren’t bothering again too much faff swapping and storing wheels for the minimum extreme weather we ever get. 

I want to get a set of cross climates for my Superb which I got earlier this year but the current Michelin summer tyres won’t wear out in time for this winter, but next year I’ll definitely change to cross climates.

Had the original CCs on a mk2 Octy 4x4 and they were excellent.  I'll certainly be going for those or something similar All Season when our current Falkens need replacing.  The only downside is they seem to be a bit more expensive than competitors.

Michelin has admitted that they made a mistake with the CrossClimate 2, at least for the UK market.  Its snow ability is outstanding, but at the expense of its ability on cold wet roads. And it's the latter, not the former, that we get for many days in the UK winter.  They will be rectifying this in the CrossClimate 3 or whatever they call the next version. Meanwhile, there are three newer designs of all-season tyres that beat the CrossClimate 2.  They are: Pirelli Cinturato All Season SF3 (which I'll be buying this month); Bridgestone Turanza All Season 6 (which I have at present);  and Continental AllSeasonContact 2.

 

See https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Best-All-Season-Tyres-2024-2025.htm for the only person outside the German-speaking world who is doing proper back-to-back blind testing of tyres under controlled conditions.  To get the best out of the information he provides, one should watch the Youtube version as well as looking at his tables of measurements. One can even adjust the weighting given to various factors, so if comfort or price, for example, matter more to you than the ability to stop on a wet road, you can rearrange the scores accordingly.

 

The best all-season tyres are now so close in ability to both a good summer tyre and a good winter tyre that I have given up swopping from summers to winters twice a year. This not merely an opinion; it's based on objective measurements of braking distances, handling, etc.

 

Yes, alloy wheels like being away from the salty roads in the winter. I take care to hose them down more often.  And you can use a product like this or one of its many competitors:

 

Edited 4 November, 20241 yr by mumpsim
added pic

Interestingly, I had CrossClimate 2's fitted on Sat, but they were 215/50R18 (to match what was fitted previously).  Is the 225 a better fit for the 18" wheel?  Can't say they offer better grip yet as only driven about 20 odd miles but so far so good!

4 hours ago, Ooopnorth said:

Decisions!  Decisions! 

 

Still can't decide whether to buy a set of winter rims for the Karoq or to just go for all-seasons and be done with it.  Swap off the current Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres that came with the car and store them incase we need a new set (following a major unrepairable tyre damage event) of tyres.  I appreciate the alloys will have to brave the worst of the winter salt, but we could always buy new alloys many years down the line (we tend to keep our cars for 8yrs plus on average) if needed.

 

Thoughts on the CC2 (I know they get good online reviews, but...)?

I have 18" Cross Climate 2 on our 2023 1.5 TSi Karoq and older versions are fitted to both our SEAT Mii & FIAT 500.

 

I'm yet to experience much in the way of snow and understand they are now bettered by other options, but nonetheless remain a sold choice for year round use👍

2 hours ago, cjmason88 said:

Interestingly, I had CrossClimate 2's fitted on Sat, but they were 215/50R18 (to match what was fitted previously).  Is the 225 a better fit for the 18" wheel?  Can't say they offer better grip yet as only driven about 20 odd miles but so far so good!

Think 215 are OEM for 2WD, whereas 225 are OEM for 4WD?

I've noticed that some of the genuine Skoda winter wheel/tyre combos come in 215 width, and I wonder if that is to do with:

 

1.  Belief that narrower tyres are better in snow, although this suggests not (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_mIlU82Ac

 

2. Snow chains fit more readily on a narrower tyre?

 

 

Our Karoq came with 225s, hence that sizing for a straight swap- summers to all-season.

All weathers are fine for most people, but if you live in the North Pennines then winters would likely be better. I have all weathers on our Karoq 2wd, but we don’t usually have to go out if it snows.

This is all very helpful - thank you.

 

As one of my favourite economists/philosophers says:

“There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.”

― Thomas Sowell

 

The Tyre Section of Briskoda is pretty useful and has the subject of Winter & All Seasons pretty well covered, and brands and types. 

Edited 4 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

6 hours ago, mumpsim said:

The best all-season tyres are now so close in ability to both a good summer tyre and a good winter tyre that I have given up swopping from summers to winters twice a year.

 

 

I've used All Seasons for years, well before CrossClimates etc came out.  Had them on a Merc Estate years ago, used year round they seemed as quiet and long-lived as the Michelin Primacy's they replaced.   I now always use CrossClimates on the family cars when replacing - annoys the heck out me that you can't order with All Seasoms from new.    Been looking at Volvo XC40 and all the ~12mth old cars I've lookedhave All Season tyres fitted, but slightly later EX40's have summer tyres.

I have CC2's on our Fabia and Octavia and I had them on our Yeti until I recently swapped it for our Karoq.

 

The snow performance is exceptional and wet performance while no longer matching the leaders still betters a midrange all season and is only a few percent off the best in braking but finished 2nd best in wet aquaplaning. It's not night and day, they are not a bad wet weather tyre by any means.

 

What really impresses me every time I get in a car with CC2's is the comfort and noise, they seem to change the car.

 

Currently my Karoq has Brigestone EV rated ECO tyres and the are noisy, harsh and pulling away in the wet is a nightmare for wheelspin.  I can't see me having these on for long.

I'll be going with CC2's or CC'3 if I can wait that long.

 

 

 

I had  Cross Climate 1s and 2s, on my previous car, didn't notice a difference, although perhaps in hindsight the CC2s might have worn quicker, but theres so many variables with wear rate (road surfaces, tracking , load to say nothing of driving style and roundabouts).  30,000 miles from the CC1s 22,000 from the CC2s  which is not in the same league as the Michelin Premacys that were on it from new (50,000 miles)  Had Goodyear1 Vector All Seasons  on the a previous car  and they were excellent in 3-4 inches of snow, and the wet. Brother has Goodyear All Seasons on his Yeti. I'll be switching to All Season as soon as th eoriginal  Bridgestone Dueller's get down to 3mm or  I discover the limitations. 

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

I have CC2's on our Fabia and Octavia and I had them on our Yeti until I recently swapped it for our Karoq.

 

The snow performance is exceptional and wet performance while no longer matching the leaders still betters a midrange all season and is only a few percent off the best in braking but finished 2nd best in wet aquaplaning. It's not night and day, they are not a bad wet weather tyre by any means.

 

What really impresses me every time I get in a car with CC2's is the comfort and noise, they seem to change the car.

 

Currently my Karoq has Brigestone EV rated ECO tyres and the are noisy, harsh and pulling away in the wet is a nightmare for wheelspin.  I can't see me having these on for long.

I'll be going with CC2's or CC'3 if I can wait that long.

 

Yes, the current CrossClimate 2 is still a good tyre. However....

 

   ... Michelin nearly always cost more than the other top brands.  Many times in the past I have been happy to pay that premium for their superior ability or comfort or longevity or whatever.  However, with the CrossClimate 2, here and now in late 2024, Michelin is still charging more than other manufacturers for an old design that has been beaten on ability by three newer designs. That is not such a compelling proposition: pay more, get less.

 

Interestingly, Jonathan Benson (tyrereviews.com) found that the Pirelli and the Continental offered better comfort than the Michelin.

 

Yes, some of Bridgestone's summer and Eco tyres are truly terrible.

 

8 hours ago, disco-barry said:

All weathers are fine for most people, but if you live in the North Pennines then winters would likely be better. I have all weathers on our Karoq 2wd, but we don’t usually have to go out if it snows.

I’ve used both extensively over a number of years/cars.
Good All Seasons are plenty good enough to get you home or to the shops.

 

Deep snow up a hill, they’re probably acceptable when it’s fresh, but yes it’d be better on winters. Slush that’s refrozen would be much better on winters.

 

All seasons do have an advantage on our typical wet roads or dry cool vs winters IMHO. Gets very cold or icy and winters win.

 

Both are hugely better than summers in winter though.

 

Essentially how severe is the weather you’re expecting, how often and are you just needing to get home or to travel?

 

Only you can tell, which trade off (storage & changing vs worse performance in more serious conditions) works for you.

I have used various Cross Climate from early on through the +, 1,s, 2,s and SUV,s on my Shogun, they were a mistake, hopeless in snow.   I have had Alpin 5 and 6,s.     The Maxxis AP3 Premitar i am using on my MINI electric are excellent. Better than the AP2,s I had on a Fabia. 

 

 

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

I have used various Cross Climate from early on through the +, 1,s, 2,s and SUV,s on my Shogun, they were a mistake, hopeless in snow.   I have had Alpin 5 and 6,s.     The Maxxis AP3 Premitar i am using on my MINI electric are excellent. Better than the AP2,s I had on a Fabia. 

 

 

 

Depends where you are no?

 

Wilds of Scotland or half way up a rural pennies road sure, winters win be they Nokian, Alpine 5/6 or any other decent brand.  Cornwall probably less so.

 

You need to buy new wheels, pressure sensors, tyres and store/swap them. Yes I travel, but as snow is uncommon where we now are, getting home in snow matters rather than hacking it around.

 

If I had unlimited space and budget I would get summer/winter for piece of mind. If the weather became reliably colder too.

As it stands the wife drove a long drive home on cc+ during the beast from the east after digging her car out. If they were that bad I’ve had hear about it.

 

I would far rather encounter a car on hood all seasons than summer tyres even if I’m on winters though. Less likely to plough into me.

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by cheezemonkhai

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

I have used various Cross Climate from early on through the +, 1,s, 2,s and SUV,s on my Shogun, they were a mistake, hopeless in snow.   I have had Alpin 5 and 6,s.     The Maxxis AP3 Premitar i am using on my MINI electric are excellent. Better than the AP2,s I had on a Fabia. 

 

 

 

I'm surprised you found the 2's hopeless in snow.

 

Most reviews put them on par with Premium Winters for snow traction and well above the average winter tyre.

 

Although I agree the first generation were no where near a winter.   

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by logiclee

18 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

Currently my Karoq has Brigestone EV rated ECO tyres and the are noisy, harsh and pulling away in the wet is a nightmare for wheelspin.  I can't see me having these on for long.

I'll be going with CC2's or CC'3 if I can wait that long.

 

 

 

@logiclee are the ECO Bridgestones the same as the Duellers, which I have on my Karoq? Just curious as, so far, I’ve not had any wheel spin or traction control cutting in with my Karoq - which I was expecting with the 2.0 TSI as my 2.0 TDI Touran would do that on brisk pull aways. Another thought regards ride quality, my Touran had the multi link rear suspension, similar if not identical to my Karoq- do all Karoqs have multi link rear suspension or do  some have the beam axle set up as that might affect ride quality.

Have used Cross Climates on my Octavia, Yeti and Karoq. Best tyres I have ever had, hence I keep using them. 

4 minutes ago, thamestrader said:

@logiclee are the ECO Bridgestones the same as the Duellers, which I have on my Karoq? Just curious as, so far, I’ve not had any wheel spin or traction control cutting in with my Karoq - which I was expecting with the 2.0 TSI as my 2.0 TDI Touran would do that on brisk pull aways. Another thought regards ride quality, my Touran had the multi link rear suspension, similar if not identical to my Karoq- do all Karoqs have multi link rear suspension or do  some have the beam axle set up as that might affect ride quality.

 

No they are Bridgestone Turanza ECO EV.  They are designed to get maximum range out of EV's.

 

@logiclee  I did not find Cross Climate 2 SUV,s hopeless in snow, i found Cross Climate SUV,s hopeless on my Shogun.

Different tyres, being used in AWD or RWD on Snow, and winter conditions, 

I had even gone down a size from 285 wide to 265. 

 

They were just an error, i should have put on BF Goodrich as i usually had on my 4x4.s but i was thinking on lots of road miles and towing and less track and fields.  They were even hopeless crossing a grass field / car parking.

 

There is difference a few miles for a few days night a year of snowy roads ploughed or weeks of white top roads.

Hopefully this is a winter like 2009/2010 in Scotland and loads of snow.

All about the kind of snow.

 

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere