You will just have to search through the thousands of listed parameters most of which will be for other vehicles, the parameter is called injector deviation or something very similar, if it comes up as invalid look further and you will find other measuring blocks with the same or similar wording, one of which will be correct for your engine.

 

I find VCDS very frustrating to use especially searching through measuring blocks which often have incorrect descriptions, there are so many to scroll through and the typeface is tiny now the program takes up only a tiny part of the screen space.

 

I'm not actually sure what "deviation" means, there are flow return measurements as well, I think the individual injector opening times can be varied according to their characteristics so they can all pass the same amount of fuel.

 

If anyone knows this subject well could they start a seperate thread? It's something people dont look at until they know they have a problem but I would be interested in doing any balancing of the injectors pro-actively for the fuel saving and to keep an eye on things if one injector seems to be changing over time, that way it can be replaced before it becomes a problem.

 

Good luck with your efforts Pete, please inform us of what you learn.

2 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

@Golf-Fiend thanks for this. Would you have any guidance on which measuring block groups need viewing/logging, and under what conditions, please?

I have VCDS, but no idea what to look for.

Is it just a case of finding one where individual injectors are shown with some number and see how similar those numbers are?

 

Can't recall I'm afraid as it was agt least 7 years ago now. My mate plugged it in and it was easy to navigatge to injector info. It shows variation on one of the blocks. Usual it will be +/- 1.0 or less. One of mine showed 3 which is maximum deviation so identified the injector for replacement. However I was getting quite a bit of smoke at start up in the mornings where the injector had leaked into the cylinder.

Hope this helps?

Very helpful, much appreciated. Will have a go tomorrow.

 

On 12/12/2024 at 10:53, J.R. said:

 

I'm not actually sure what "deviation" means, there are flow return measurements as well, I think the individual injector opening times can be varied according to their characteristics so they can all pass the same amount of fuel.

 

I always thought it was more of a trim value rather than anything. Rather like fuel trims on a petrol compensating for air leaks to maintain lambda. Never seen any concrete guidance though just hearsay on forums and such.

 

I can't really see any other way the car could measure or know any specifics of the inectors performance other than measuring the rpm variance or smoothness of running using the rest of its sensors.

 

When I had the B5.5 Passat with only a 100K on it, I spent countless hours testing and trying new bits and pieces egr/maf, running it on premium fuel, and fuel cleaner for 6 months to try and get it cleaned up to smoke less, start smoother and idle better but in the end nothing really mattered, it had done a lot of caravan towing and i'm sure the engine or injectors or both were just tired and worn out. Even checked the cam for wear although I always wished I had reset the injector backlash while I was in there for good measure. The injector deviation even looked normal.

 

Its also worth noting that on the PD engines the torsion value on VCDS (cam timing) has sometimes been rumoured to make a difference. I think it is meant to be set to +0.5 but slackening the 3 bolts and playing about with it slightly didn't seem to make any noticeable difference to me at least. @Breezy_Pete This is something else you could check if you haven't already, on a warm idle.

On 06/12/2024 at 17:10, JamieH86 said:

Hi all, update is... stuck and dirty EGR valve.   Will Forté again tomorrow and retest.

I was going to suggest an EGR delete.

The benefits of an EGR delete outweigh the downsides IMO, but Greta and friends won't thank you for the increased NOX emissions.

Not sure if the NOX levels are part of the MOT test or not? If yes then an EGR delete is making it harder to get a pass. 

@SuperbTWM I did log deviations yesterday on my morning commute, start and end of anyway.

Was wondering the same, how does the ECU know what's actually been injected each time, as opposed to what should have been?

Busy today, but might get a chance to pop a graph to tomorrow.  There were some deviations beyond ÷/-1, but only when driving, and only early in journey (2 or 3 minutes in, up a sheepish hill), not when just idling. 

It does also start poorly when warm, and also after a few days of non-usage, so leaking may be going on.

 

@Graham Butcher NOx isn't measured at MOT in the UK.

On diesels, opacity/smoke is the only thing measured.

 

1 hour ago, EnterName said:

I was going to suggest an EGR delete.

The benefits of an EGR delete outweigh the downsides IMO, but Greta and friends won't thank you for the increased NOX emissions.

she want thank you but children playing nearby deserve cleaner air than yours exhaust. 

will you do the same to your children too? probably..

 

clean that intake completely, new egr valve and drive honestly.

 

 

Edited 14 December, 20241 yr by imart143

1 hour ago, imart143 said:

she want thank you but children playing nearby deserve cleaner air than yours exhaust. 

will you do the same to your children too? probably..

 

clean that intake completely, new egr valve and drive honestly.

 

 

Can you define what you mean by "cleaner air"?

if you know the purpose of EGR system, you will define it by yourself.

EGR systems are meant to be cleaned and maintained, not removed and disabled.

Edited 14 December, 20241 yr by imart143

4 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

It does also start poorly when warm, and also after a few days of non-usage, so leaking may be going on.

 

Do you get the puff of smoke on startup-up as well?

 

I can’t remember whether you’ve said you have checked the glow plugs but at this age they could be mostly dead and although they start fine with or without them even at freezing temperatures, the post start glow definitely cleans up the exhaust. I think in my case it helped mask the tired injectors because without them I got quite a bad fog out of the back and with them it was like night and day. 
 

I would definitely check the torsion value, especially if it’s had a timing belt in the past. A lot of people don’t bother slackening off the cam pulley relative to the cam and check it is in the right position with VCDS when they are done. You never know, might help slightly if it’s way off. 
 

I believe it’s block 4

Previous owner said he'd replaced all glowplugs yes. I should probably check them anyway.

 

Yes, smoky start up.

 

Will try to check torsion business tomorrow. 

 

Thanks.

 

Edit, just arrived after a 3.5 hour cross country trek with it, and the journey average mpg was 53 ish, so there's probably not too much wrong. Want more to make it viable though.

 

Going back to my Polo is seeming pretty tempting just now.

Edited 14 December, 20241 yr by Breezy_Pete

7 hours ago, imart143 said:

if you know the purpose of EGR system, you will define it by yourself.

EGR systems are meant to be cleaned and maintained, not removed and disabled.

There is no purpose of the EGR system beneficial to the driver.

Depending on the EGR system, there doesn't have to be removal, they can be blanked off, so only clean air enters the engine to be mixed with fuel.

Not for driver but all those people around him.

Yeah cars without without egrs were on streets 1970-1980.

We are in 2025. almost.

Nowadays gasoline cars have catalisators, egrs, diesels have few more. That is life.

All antipoisoning systems (EGR, DPF, SRC, GPF, etc) are mounted on cars because other people, walking or cycling around drivers to minimize inhaling poisons from exhaust.

You are probably one of people that doesnt care about other people.

I had egr on my tsi i i will clean its depozits but not remove system.

I think about people around me, pedestrians,  older, children.

Behind my vehicle nobody needs to breath poison. 

Aldough i understand you. 

You are thinking about yourself, and all yourself, nobody else, no neighbours, nobody, just you and your car. You driving gasoline car, ok, but how can you tell orher driving diesels: blank it of, erase. It doesnt matter. 

@imart143 - All hydrocarbon engines are designed to run on 2 chemicals; a design hydrocarbon and diatomic oxygen. The outputs from this process should be CO2 and H2O. Given this information, explain, IF YOU CAN, how Exhaust Gas Recycling actually improves this process. I may not presently remember enough chemistry to write an explanation, but I certainly remember enough to distinguish an actual explanation from the emotive male bovine faeces you've been spouting so far.

The Nox reduced by the egr is significant but it comes at a cost in fuel economy

 

If the vehicle is not serviced correctly a diesel that is not burning the fuel efficiently will choke itself to death with the soot and get them off the road.

 

 

5 hours ago, Paws4Thot said:

@imart143 - All hydrocarbon engines are designed to run on 2 chemicals; a design hydrocarbon and diatomic oxygen. The outputs from this process should be CO2 and H2O. Given this information, explain, IF YOU CAN, how Exhaust Gas Recycling actually improves this process. I may not presently remember enough chemistry to write an explanation, but I certainly remember enough to distinguish an actual explanation from the emotive male bovine faeces you've been spouting so far.

 

I did not dispute the chemical significance, but the removal of ecological systems from cars does not endanger the health of some people on the other side of the planet.  nitrogen oxides and soot particles affect the immediate environment, in contrast to CO2 emissions that are dispersed in the atmosphere and have no local impact.

The problem with Ken's chemistry is that he neglects to mention that the oxygen comes mixed with rather a lot of nitrogen.

Edited 15 December, 20241 yr by Breezy_Pete

9 hours ago, imart143 said:

Not for driver but all those people around him.

Yeah cars without without egrs were on streets 1970-1980.

We are in 2025. almost.

Nowadays gasoline cars have catalisators, egrs, diesels have few more. That is life.

All antipoisoning systems (EGR, DPF, SRC, GPF, etc) are mounted on cars because other people, walking or cycling around drivers to minimize inhaling poisons from exhaust.

You are probably one of people that doesnt care about other people.

I had egr on my tsi i i will clean its depozits but not remove system.

I think about people around me, pedestrians,  older, children.

Behind my vehicle nobody needs to breath poison. 

Aldough i understand you. 

You are thinking about yourself, and all yourself, nobody else, no neighbours, nobody, just you and your car. You driving gasoline car, ok, but how can you tell orher driving diesels: blank it of, erase. It doesnt matter. 

I am immune from pompous virtue-signalling, but you will find plenty of applause on here for it from others, if applause is what you desire.

I haven't seen an appeal to <current year> for some time, so thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Here's another trip down memory lane. A prediction for 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/sep/11/meteorology.scienceofclimatechange

 

 

 

 

If CO22 levels are still rising fast, then it's time to stop the massive deforestation that has been going on for decades around the globe as we already know the plants, especially trees take in vast quantities of CO2 and convert that back into life sustaining oxygen and the carbon is deposited as wood. So as trees are harvested for their timber, we should be planting even more young trees to take their place and perpetuate the cycle. As I have previously mentioned, the levels of CO2 that sensible family sizes cars produce has been dramatically cut over the years and begs the question just why are the massive gas guzzling cars still be produced. Isn't it time to now curtail the production of such monsters?

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

it's time to stop the massive deforestation

How?

5 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

How?

We know that we need timber for other things, that we all need. So the sensible thing to do is to ensure that as we cut trees to use that timber, we also must replace them with new trees, as I said in the same post. 

Edited 15 December, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

We being who?

Many rainforests round your 'neck of the woods'?

How much pressure do you think you can put on countries with significant amounts of rainforest, realistically? 

It's sweet that you think they just haven't realised, and now you've told them what to do all will be well.

 

20 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

We being who?

Many rainforests round your 'neck of the woods'?

How much pressure do you think you can put on countries with significant amounts of rainforest, realistically? 

It's sweet that you think they just haven't realised, and now you've told them what to do all will be well.

 

I was very clearly using the collective use of the word we, meaning the various government bodies around the world, who are the same bodies who are trying to enforce the phasing out of ICE vehicles and fossil fuels.

 

As to the number of rainforests in my neck of the woods, its the same as yours I expect, but joking apart, air is not static, it travels all over the globe as can be seen by the storms that we all have and damage that moving air (winds) causes, so oxygen and CO2 spreads out and has been the case throughout the earths' history, so oxygen created is shared across the globe. 

 

This extract from the Wikipedia on the subject of Rainforests clearly states that deforestation actually causes more CO2 to be released into the air. 

 

Effect on global climate

A natural rainforest emits and absorbs vast quantities of carbon dioxide. On a global scale, long-term fluxes are approximately in balance, so that an undisturbed rainforest would have a small net impact on atmospheric carbon dioxide levels,^[32] though they may have other climatic effects (on cloud formation, for example, by recycling water vapour). No rainforest today can be considered to be undisturbed.^[33] Human-induced deforestation plays a significant role in causing rainforests to release carbon dioxide,^[34][35][36] as do other factors, whether human-induced or natural, which result in tree death, such as burning and drought.^[37] Some climate models operating with interactive vegetation predict a large loss of Amazonian rainforest around 2050 due to drought, forest dieback and the subsequent release of more carbon dioxide.^[38]

 

 

Rainforest - Wikipedia

5 hours ago, EnterName said:

I am immune from pompous virtue-signalling, but you will find plenty of applause on here for it from others, if applause is what you desire.

I haven't seen an appeal to <current year> for some time, so thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Here's another trip down memory lane. A prediction for 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/sep/11/meteorology.scienceofclimatechange

 

 

 

 

I cannot influence how many greenhouse gases there will be in 30 years and what the consequences will be.  there is not only Co2, but also Methane, etc.   I have already written several posts about toxic gases coming out of, for example, Euro 5 or 6 cars with disabled exhaust cleaning systems, how cars with an "operated" exhaust system directly endanger the health of people in their immediate vicinity.  everyone in this part of the world has the right to clean air and water, this distinguishes us from the inhabitants of Africa and similar countries where there are no standards for air cleanliness.  no new egr, dpf or src is worth a person's health.  ask yourself: would you have the same attitude if you fell ill with some disease of the respiratory system due to the fact that people disabled the exhaust cleaning systems in order to avoid adequate maintenance and repairs, but instead disabled the broken components to return the car to Euro 4 with its exhaust.