AND WHY WAS THE 1ST ST NOT MADE LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF MAKING A VERY LUKE WARM HOTHATCH

I can think of 18,000 reasons

I wasnt pointing at just the BHP i was pointing at the Torque figures.

I.E 350+ lb/ft no fiesta ST is gonna touch that when it only has 147lb/ft:rolleyes:

Torque so isn't the only determining factor in a car's performance Look at everyone's favourite Top Gear video, the Fabia vRS has over twice the torque of the Mini Cooper yet it's only a bit quicker round their test track

Torque so isn't the only determining factor in a car's performance Look at everyone's favourite Top Gear video, the Fabia vRS has over twice the torque of the Mini Cooper yet it's only a bit quicker round their test track

it would have been a lot quicker if it hadn't handled like a lump of cheddar:D

it would have been a lot quicker if it hadn't handled like a lump of cheddar:D

on behalf of the cheddar appreciation society I feel that mark is unkind and derogatory.

on behalf of the cheddar appreciation society I feel that mark is unkind and derogatory.

:rofl:i retract my last remark,what i actually meant was stilton:D

WHO THE HELL WOULD SPEND 18,000 ON THAT AND WHY WAS THE 1ST ST NOT MADE LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF MAKING A VERY LUKE WARM HOTHATCH

Yeah, 'cos 150bhp in a 1100kg car that handles like a go-cart is *so* lukewarm...

I wouldn't see a problem with spending £18k on one of these if it's a better version of the standard ST.

Rob.

The £18k price tag is only if you pay list prices and include EVERY option on the list.

If you did that to an Octy VRS it's the best part of £24k.

Torque so isn't the only determining factor in a car's performance Look at everyone's favourite Top Gear video, the Fabia vRS has over twice the torque of the Mini Cooper yet it's only a bit quicker round their test track

But its still quicker:thumbup:

Which was my whole point:rolleyes:

quicker on that track yes, but one without a big massive long straight and it wouldn't have stood a chance.

on track the year before last both Dave and Jas had more troque than me and my car also weighed more than both of theirs yet i still passed them on straights

torque is not the be all and end all of just the same as bhp/weight/suspension/brakes etc aren't, its the whole package

But its still quicker:thumbup:

Which was my whole point:rolleyes:

but it's still slower than an F1 car, which has about 200 lb/ft of torque, or a Civic Type-R which has 142 lb/ft...etc etc...torque alone isn't the be all and end all in performance. which was my point :rolleyes:

but it's still slower than an F1 car

What about going uphill towing a caravan? In third gear?

:sofahide:

Rob.

But its still quicker:thumbup:

Which was my whole point:rolleyes:

we can settle this but assume you dont have 18k lying around either. but just in case either of us wins the lotto...

18K to buy the car new and tune it. road legal for a round the "ring" BTG challenge.

I am CERTAIN my Tuned Fiesta ST will whup a same budget Octy VRS MK II for the same reason a same budget MK1 vRS would.

Or if this is purely about straight lines then surely £18k buys a lot of yank..

to keep it simple have worked on £1= $2..

Mustang Coupe GT 08 $28000

Rousch Supercharger kit $5999

Total 33999 = £17k

still leaves a coupe of thousand dollars for better rubber / suspension

and with 425bhp and 385lbs ft it will win any drag race.

mind you on your torque logic my 407 should be mighty with 560nm ???????

What about going uphill towing a caravan? In third gear?

:sofahide:

Rob.

the F1 car isn't type approved for towing, so it's worthless for "real world" driving...

we can settle this but assume you dont have 18k lying around either. but just in case either of us wins the lotto...

18K to buy the car new and tune it. road legal for a round the "ring" BTG challenge.

I am CERTAIN my Tuned Fiesta ST will whup a same budget Octy VRS MK II for the same reason a same budget MK1 vRS would.

Or if this is purely about straight lines then surely £18k buys a lot of yank..

to keep it simple have worked on £1= $2..

Mustang Coupe GT 08 $28000

Rousch Supercharger kit $5999

Total 33999 = £17k

still leaves a coupe of thousand dollars for better rubber / suspension

and with 425bhp and 385lbs ft it will win any drag race.

mind you on your torque logic my 407 should be mighty with 560nm ???????

I never said it was just torque that made a car quick:rolleyes:.

As you quite rightly pointed out its BHP/Torque/Brakes/Suspension etc. i.e the whole setup

I also never said it was about straight lines:rolleyes:. If it were i wouldnt argue the point and neither would you because a Standard vRS with no tweaks is quicker in a straight line than this £18k Fiesta

Im sure i stated that unless you had some really tight twisty roads then a re-mapped vRS would keep with the Fiesta. And that would be with 2 average drivers. If we talk driver skill then i'll take one on without any tweaks to my Octy:rofl::P

I was pointing to the fact that to make it so my car was £18k including upgrades i could achieve around 285bhp and 352lb/ft of torque (probably a lot more but we'll take it thats all i can achieve). Now no 185bhp 147lb/ft car (unless it weighs about 500kg) is going to "muller" as you put it my Octy. The whole argument i put forward was that it depended upon WHO'S vRS it was. Even if i hadnt saved any money and i remapped my car to make it to the £18k even then the Fiesta would not "muller" the octy.

I'll prove a point for you. I "know" someone who has a remapped MK II Octy vRS and a Focus ST cant keep with it. The 2 cars are more or less equal to 62mph (so will be same for Fiesta) but then after that the vRS pulls away from the Focus.

It does help if you read my posts properly before commenting and dont try and twist what im saying to help your flawed argument :P;)

Carl:thumbup:

so which is quicker a Ford GT or a Formula Ford 1600?

a standard mk2 vRS TFSi has 136bhp/ton and a 185bhp fiesta ST has 162bhp/tonne

a remapped vRS running 245bhp has 166bhp/tonne so hardly any better

i know which car i'd rather have as a daily driver but i would rather have the other on track

I was pointing to the fact that to make it so my car was £18k including upgrades i could achieve around 285bhp and 352lb/ft of torque (probably a lot more but we'll take it thats all i can achieve). Now no 185bhp 147lb/ft car (unless it weighs about 500kg) is going to "muller" as you put it my Octy. The whole argument i put forward was that it depended upon WHO'S vRS it was. Even if i hadnt saved any money and i remapped my car to make it to the £18k even then the Fiesta would not "muller" the octy.

I'll prove a point for you. I "know" someone who has a remapped MK II Octy vRS and a Focus ST cant keep with it. The 2 cars are more or less equal to 62mph (so will be same for Fiesta) but then after that the vRS pulls away from the Focus.

It does help if you read my posts properly before commenting and dont try and twist what im saying to help your flawed argument :P;)

Carl:thumbup:

UK list price leaves you £95(?) to lavish on your Octavia :P WHO'S vRS actually saw 285bhp and 352lb/ft without a not insignificant amount of cash thrown at it?

UK list price leaves you £95(?) to lavish on your Octavia :P WHO'S vRS actually saw 285bhp and 352lb/ft without a not insignificant amount of cash thrown at it?

I didnt pay UK list price:P

I get Tax free and Forces discount so if i was to throw the cash i saved at the car i could easily achieve 285bhp and 352lb/ft:finger::P:rofl:

Hence the reason i said it depends on who's vRS;)

Carl

it would be interesting to hear what steve has spent on his to achieve his power actually but i think it will be in the region of £3600 and thats just the power items let alone the other parts like suspension, engine mounts, brakes, shifter etc etc etc. probably close to £4500 all in (apart from things like the sat-nav)

a standard mk2 vRS TFSi has 136bhp/ton and a 185bhp fiesta ST has 162bhp/tonne

a remapped vRS running 245bhp has 166bhp/tonne so hardly any better

hence the reason i quoted torque figures aswell. otherwise how do you explain a standard vRS pushing 149mph vs the Fiesta's 129mph. Aerodynamics plays a part but the extra 26bhp/ton should help overcome that

Here is the definition of torque direct from the F1 website and ive highlighted a prominent part of it

Torque

Literally, the turning or twisting force of an engine, torque is generally used as a measure of an engine's flexibility. An engine may be very powerful, but if it has little torque then that power may only be available over a limited rev range, making it of limited use to the driver. An engine with more torque - even if it has less power - may actually prove quicker, as the power is available over a far wider rev range and hence more accessible.

So as i have said all along it depends on WHO'S vRS it is:rofl:

it would be interesting to hear what steve has spent on his to achieve his power actually but i think it will be in the region of £3600 and thats just the power items let alone the other parts like suspension, engine mounts, brakes, shifter etc etc etc. probably close to £4500 all in (apart from things like the sat-nav)

Well £4500 is within what i saved;)

Carl:thumbup:

I didnt pay UK list price:P

I get Tax free and Forces discount so if i was to throw the cash i saved at the car i could easily achieve 285bhp and 352lb/ft:finger::P:rofl:

Hence the reason i said it depends on who's vRS;)

Carl

be fair, this was never about discounted prices though and everyone is well aware of the reason you laboured the point of WHO5 VRS it was making a difference :P

gearing maybe?

my mazda will only do about 125mph tops but thats at the redline in 5th which it will hit easily

be fair, this was never about discounted prices though and everyone is well aware of the reason you laboured the point of WHO5 VRS it was making a difference :P

I am being fair:D

This all started because i merely stated that it depended who's vRS it was.

Everyone else then decided to jump on the bandwagon

So i'll concede that the fiesta MAY be quicker if you lot will concede i was correct in saying it would depend who's vRS it was :P