Don't start in the morning, just pushing

[KenONeill]

47 minutes ago, Joob said:

yes there is the butterfly, I thought there was something else to mix with.

That's a single point injection throttle body. It does the same job as a carburettor used to but with more accurate fuel metering. The issue comes when one or more of the engine sensors starts giving bad data. So you can either throw money at the car until you get lucky, or get the fault codes read to establish what's out of specification.

[Papez]

25 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

That's a single point injection throttle body. It does the same job as a carburettor used to but with more accurate fuel metering

This is an MPI engine. There's no fuel going to throttle body. You can se injector rail on intake.

 

1 hour ago, Joob said:

engine don't turn on in the morning, only in the morning..

What's the weather like when this happens? I had issues caused by condensation inside of ignition module, when it's isolation cracked.

 

1 hour ago, Joob said:

That's the only way I can turn it on... pushing it in a straight line or downhill, I put on the 2nd gear, put the clutch in and it turns on...

 

However, this sounds more like there's issue with starter motor or battery/wiring.

 

However, it's all wild guess without diagnostics...

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Have tou ever made a reset to your Ecu?

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

 or get the fault codes read to establish what's out of specification.

 

Yes but: 3 different scanning tools (laptop, portable VCDS and OBD11) in 2 garage-shops never manage to find two crucial things: a wrong valve gap plus a non good spark plug compustion.

 

 

 

[Joob]

Quote

That's a single point injection throttle body. It does the same job as a carburettor used to but with more accurate fuel metering. The issue comes when one or more of the engine sensors starts giving bad data. So you can either throw money at the car until you get lucky, or get the fault codes read to establish what's out of specification.

Yap, alright.

I have a device, I'm going to see if I can do some reading on this car.

 

Quote

What's the weather like when this happens? I had issues caused by condensation inside of ignition module, when it's isolation cracked.

I think when the weather is warmer, I think it takes a while and turns on, I don't remember well.

Now it's horrible in the morning. Weather is pretty cold.

 

Quote

However, this sounds more like there's issue with starter motor or battery/wiring.

 

However, it's all wild guess without diagnostics...

Is that when starting, the engine turns but does not start. I even thought it was from the battery, because the old woman who was there had a drop to 9.30v which no longer made her turn on. When I put the other new one (with 6 months old) it only dropped to 10.50v .. and by chance it turned on at the time, but the next morning, it didn't turn on again.

[Joob]

Quote

Have tou ever made a reset to your Ecu?

No. I'll try that, I'll remove the ECU and waiting 3 min more or less right ? (to reset that)

 

Quote

 

By chance I had seen this tube a while ago, and it was kind of undone until I changed it.

I happen to think I've already changed the candles, but I'm going to check them tomorrow morning, do some cleaning, etc...

 

 

Videos of Engine

-------------

Quote

VIDEO 1      VIDEO 2

 

For example, in relation to low idle, look at the behavior of the engine, when I accelerate, the engine almost dies, and one of the times it even makes a noise/click when I go to accelerate, in the second 20/22 (video 1).

This could all be with a bad reading of something

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

34 minutes ago, Joob said:

No. I'll try that, I'll remove the ECU and waiting 3 min more or less right ? (to reset that)

 

By chance I had seen this tube a while ago, and it was kind of undone until I changed it.

 

 

 

Remove the + and the - cables from the battery poles

Gentle pull out the pastic safeties of the 2 plugs of the ECU

Remove the plus and spray them with contact cleaner, NOT with WD-40

Wait till they dry and put them back gently (the pins are prone to bent)

Connect the + pole and then the -

Turn the key to 1st scale and wait 1 minute

Take off the key, insert it turn, wait till you hear the ''clack'' from the relay and start the engine.

Let it idle for a while and then drive normally for few kilometres.

 

This video plus another one i have post it when i was searching for the fuel pressure

Read my post for this, will help you to check the pressure number of the regulator.

 

By the way your mechanic has checked the engine starter inside?

Nevertheless a service on that will help to avoid future problems.

 

 

[Joob]

Quote

emove the + and the - cables from the battery poles

Gentle pull out the pastic safeties of the 2 plugs of the ECU

Remove the plus and spray them with contact cleaner, NOT with WD-40

Wait till they dry and put them back gently (the pins are prone to bent)

Connect the + pole and then the -

Turn the key to 1st scale and wait 1 minute

Take off the key, insert it turn, wait till you hear the ''clack'' from the relay and start the engine.

Let it idle for a while and then drive normally for few kilometres.

 

Alright, I'll do this and check the improvements the car had.

 

Quote

By the way your mechanic has checked the engine starter inside?

Nevertheless a service on that will help to avoid future problems.

 

I'm the one getting my cars fixed, but this is getting a little boring kakak :b

I once opened the starter motor to check the brushes and I still had a good amount of brushes, only if the motor (which makes the boost) is not so good.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

3 minutes ago, Joob said:

only if the motor (which makes the boost) is not so good.

 

Few months back i had a problem with the solenoid switch, turn the key nothing, turn the key OK crank.

This ''game'' of ''i make contack-i do not'' continued 3-4 times in different days and one morning stopped completely and the car stayed motionless.

The starter motor by the way was in excellent condition.

[Joob]

Quote

Few months back i had a problem with the solenoid switch, turn the key nothing, turn the key OK crank.

This ''game'' of ''i make contack-i do not'' continued 3-4 times in different days and one morning stopped completely and the car stayed motionless.

The starter motor by the way was in excellent condition.

 

But for example, if that engine had problems, it would just click, and no longer make noise, and wouldn't pull the engine right? is that I turn it on and it goes "vrrum vrrumm vruumm" as if the engine wants to start, but it won't start. (turned)

 

How can I test the starter motor with multimeter ?

[Thefeliciahacker]

To my ears the engine idles fine just when you give it abrupt throttle input it bogs down. That means it does not fuel enrich as it should. 

Try to run the engine with the map sensor disconnected. 

 

Edited 19 November, 2021 by Thefeliciahacker

[Joob]

56 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

To my ears the engine idles fine just when you give it abrupt throttle input it bogs down. That means it does not fuel enrich as it should. 

Try to run the engine with the map sensor disconnected. 

 

Yap true .. 

Would he have to turn on anyway?  or turn on call and die soon?

I'll try this

 

[nta16]

Joob, first things first, take the 6 months old battery off the car and give it a long low slow recharge at least over night but longer if possible, check and if required clean the battery posts.

 

Check and clean if required the inside and outside of the battery post clamps and check the thick battery cables do not have green on them.

 

Check the battery earth cable where it bolts to the body work, the connection is tight and protected and the end of the cable has its insulation and no green on the cable.

 

If you can also check the engine earth strap (if it has it) or any other earth straps, that all are secure, clean and if possible protected.

 

A battery that is down on charge will not like the cold and damp weather will effect cables, wires and connectors that are not clean, secure and protected.

 

Doing above will give you a solid base to work from and might even start the car the way you want.

 

You can not sucessfully progress until you have checked and dealt with the basics and other than noting getting fuel to the engine this is the most common cause of not starting well, especially as the cold and damp weather starts.

 

[RicardoM]

13 hours ago, Joob said:

Videos of Engine

I suspect a vacuum leak or the throttle body needs cleaning and reset.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

4 hours ago, RicardoM said:

I suspect a vacuum leak or the throttle body needs cleaning and reset.

 

Yes but: if there was a leak on the vacuum he couldn't understand it from the brake pedal?

A dirty throttle sign is noticeable from the non-stable idling when the car stops in the traffic light (the needle drops sharply and comes back).

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Yes but: if there was a leak on the vacuum he couldn't understand it from the brake pedal?

I don't understand your English.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

39 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

I don't understand your English.

 

Mejor de esta forma.

[AnnoyingPentium]

13 hours ago, nta16 said:

Check the battery earth cable where it bolts to the body work, the connection is tight and protected and the end of the cable has its insulation and no green on the cable.

 

It was the same for my Fabia. When it ran, it messed up with the power-assisted steering and all the other electronic witchcraft I don't completely understand.

[nta16]

28 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

 

It was the same for my Fabia. When it ran, it messed up with the power-assisted steering and all the other electronic witchcraft I don't completely understand.

It's simple on modern cars like the Fabia, particularly with the over-complicated VAG computer programs (I wonder why that was done) the computers are in charge and they want their (battery, clean and clear) power and if they don't get enough of it to satisfy them they will communicate with each other and gang up together and make you realise they control everything.

 

But even on cars with less electronics or no electronics at all the battery and all its electrical cables/wires and connections are very important to getting the car started and keeping it running.

 

Look up the number one cause of breakdowns (in UK at least) and these will be even more prevalent now the long nights and colder weather (and the wet) are here car battery sales (many of them totally unnecessary) will increase greatly at this time of year, many times just recharging the battery would have prevented the breakdowns, and unnecessary new battery purchase.

 

If a car won't start the first things you check are the battery and if fuel is getting to the engine (is there fuel in the tank!), see No. 1 (batteries are very rarely faulty in themselves, owners make them so) and No. 9. - https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/advice/top-ten-breakdown-causes

 

Edited 20 November, 2021 by nta16

[Joob]

Quote

Joob, first things first, take the 6 months old battery off the car and give it a long low slow recharge at least over night but longer if possible, check and if required clean the battery posts.

 

Check and clean if required the inside and outside of the battery post clamps and check the thick battery cables do not have green on them.

 

Check the battery earth cable where it bolts to the body work, the connection is tight and protected and the end of the cable has its insulation and no green on the cable.

 

If you can also check the engine earth strap (if it has it) or any other earth straps, that all are secure, clean and if possible protected.

 

A battery that is down on charge will not like the cold and damp weather will effect cables, wires and connectors that are not clean, secure and protected.

 

Doing above will give you a solid base to work from and might even start the car the way you want.

 

You can not sucessfully progress until you have checked and dealt with the basics and other than noting getting fuel to the engine this is the most common cause of not starting well, especially as the cold and damp weather starts.

 

Quote

Remove the + and the - cables from the battery poles

Gentle pull out the pastic safeties of the 2 plugs of the ECU

Remove the plus and spray them with contact cleaner, NOT with WD-40

Wait till they dry and put them back gently (the pins are prone to bent)

Connect the + pole and then the -

Turn the key to 1st scale and wait 1 minute

Take off the key, insert it turn, wait till you hear the ''clack'' from the relay and start the engine.

Let it idle for a while and then drive normally for few kilometres.

 

I just didn't charge the battery, I can't do that.. but it's new, it's with 12.60v

I did this this morning, cleaned the cable posts, ECU cables, removed etc.

Now it's like this

 

 

They look dirty, but they're better now, that's leftovers, because I've sanded the areas of the cables etc... up to the grounding cable that is in the chassis

Now I will test his connection in the morning, only tomorrow to see the difference, if it really made a difference.

This morning I hadn't turned it on, so I cleaned it straight away, etc... and when I turned it on, it called right away.

 

Check Video - First key on after cleaning

it even seemed to turn well, it wasn't bad at all, I think this delay is also normal in this type of car.

 

Check Video - Second Video

Then I turned it off and on again.

Check Video - I turned it on with the map sensor disconnected, and then connected it.

Until I started the engine without the sensor disconnected and it turned on.

No difference when disconnecting the map sensor plug.

And the engine looks weird, in this little acceleration and it seems like it's going down

 

Check Video - Check the pointer, when I accelerate and release...

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

The way that the needle moves up and down for me shouts ''throttle"

You should clean the central part of the throttle much better (i suppose you use cleaner spray) and spray contact cleaner to the plug of the throttle and as the cover is out spray some WD-40 to the accelerator wire.

 

Your air filter is in good condition?

12.6 V are with cables on and key off or just without cables as is in the shelf?

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Here are a photo of how you throttle should like as clean:

 

 

 

[nta16]

The throttle body is not too bad but if you do want to clean it use the correct cleaner for cleaning throttle bodies. - (Scotty Kilmer) Make Your Car Run Better with a Little Spray Cleaner - 

 

ETA: perhaps your throttle body and plate are dirtier than the photo shows with muck built up behind the plate making take up and shut down from idle unsteady. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 November, 2021 by nta16
ETA:

[nta16]

12.6v is good but is that off the two battery posts, if so what is the reading from outside of positive post clamp to a good earth point on the body(?) - BUT - your car starts fine in the first video, you revved it up too soon, leave it to settle itself or just drive the car off normally.

 

Your battery terminal clamps look like they might be sitting a little high on the battery posts and that is why the clamps have been bent and overtighten - BUT - that may have put a ledge in the battery posts so leave them as is.  And there is a glob of solder(?) on positive connector as long as the cable and connector are firmly fixed it does not matter.

 

Second video it sounds like you might be pressing the accelerator pedal with your foot as you start the car or just after, if the car is cold do not do that.

 

Unplug the MAP and then putting it back on may have just upset the ECU working out the fuel and air.  I am not a mechanic but I can not see what doing this would achieve or prove and I can not see that it is generally a good idea to disconnect and reconnect a live electronic/electric connection but I may be wrong perhaps the ECU likes the off/on-again action for reset?  Seems a bit risky to me.

 

I do not see what the problem is with the tacho (rev counter) needle other than you are doing this well before the engine has fully warmed up (unless the temperature gauge reads too low). On second thought - perhaps your throttle body and plate are dirtier than the photo above shows with muck built up behind the plate making take up and shut down from idle unsteady. 

 

There is a lot of dust on the engine - is your air filter clean or replaced and the air filter box and air intake all clean of dust and have you clean oil and oil fitter?

 

You could also clean the MAP sensor and check its seal you also want any pipes or hoses clean inside otherwise the dust or muck in them with mess up the sensors and filters you have just cleaned (or replaced).

 

Allow plenty of time for the sensors or other items to full dry before refitting them and do not leave them lying in muck or dust or where dust or muck can blow or get into them.

 

I don not mean anyone just a general observation, I see people cleaning items with dirty materials or in a dirty environment which can mean the items and not fully clean when refitted, obviously there is a limit to how clean but the cleaner the better, it is after all cleaning not re-dirtying.

 

[nta16]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

That is the result wanted from cleaning . 👍  By the way I am not a particularly over clean type of person and am a bit scruffy but I do want the engine to run well which usually means clean supplies of fuel, air, oil coolant, etc.. 

 

Is the hole in the plate from factory or added in as a modification?

 

Edited 20 November, 2021 by nta16