Annihilated by a Saxo

[rb320]

but it can't be as simple as given the same/similar power rwd>fwd>4wd; wasn't the 4wd R32 quicker than the rwd 130M Sport on both Top Gear and 5th Gear? and when they did old racing cars vs new sports car on Top Gear, didn't the fwd FRS beat the rwd Escort rally car?

traction? pretty much everything else that gets raced is rwd

some of the touring cars used to be 4wd until they banned them

[rb320]

but look on the bright side he probably has a really nice blue rally jacket.

no thanks i got a black denim

[Captain Sisko]

Most rally cars are 4WD as the Audi Quattro showed its metal when firsl let loose on rally stages.

Plus its needed on those kinds of surfaces.

One you do get some older RWD rally cars and some FWD ones.

The A4 Quattro was awesome in Touring Cars. But they got a weight penalty and I dont know if it got banned or whether because they kept getting oertaken they changed to 2WD the eventually left the series.

[faboka vrs]

The A4 Quattro was awesome in Touring Cars. But they got a weight penalty and I dont know if it got banned

I remeber them getting the weight penalty but I too can't remeber if they got banned.

Just checked. Looks like the FIA banned them in the end.

Edited 21 July, 2008 by faboka vrs

[faboka vrs]

tell me why most rally cars are 4 wd then?

I'm willing to put money on the fact that most rally cars arn't 4WD, unless of course your just talking about the WRC?

[rb320]

I'm willing to put money on the fact that most rally cars arn't 4WD, unless of course your just talking about the WRC?

just the wrc

i know you got the 2wd section

[faboka vrs]

fwd will never handle as well 4wd

So a fiat panda 4x4 handles better than a Saxo? (never driven an old panda so I'm just guessing here)

Think I still have my top gear video which is based around handling where Richard Burns and Tim Harvey picked a little 106 gti over the likes of an M3, GTO etc.

On paper I think RWD is best because you have the rears being driven and the front doing the steering. 4WD has the same disadvantages as FWD as you still have the front wheels trying to do 2 things at once which is not good.

This is really a pointless discussion. A car handles as well as it been designed.

[lewisgraham]

does anyone have a shovel so this can be dug even deeper

[robmawer]

A car handles as well as it been designed.

A well-designed FWD car will be better than a poorly-designed RWD car. And a well-designed FWD car will be as good as a well-designed RWD car, because they'll both have been well-designed.

That said, 4WD will always handle appallingly, and people will keep on mistaking handling for grip...

Rob.

[Easy Life]

A well-designed FWD car will be better than a poorly-designed RWD car. And a well-designed FWD car will be as good as a well-designed RWD car, because they'll both have been well-designed.

That said, 4WD will always handle appallingly, and people will keep on mistaking handling for grip...

Rob.

Well my 4wd handles better than my Fabia VRS for sure!

[faboka vrs]

That said, 4WD will always handle appallingly, and people will keep on mistaking handling for grip...

Rob.

[faboka vrs]

Well my 4wd handles better than my Fabia VRS for sure!

Thats not really difficult is it. Lets look at what skoda did. Replace PD100 with PD130. Fit thinker front anti roll bar and stiffer springs/dampers. Anyone at Ripspeed can do that. :P

[Easy Life]

Thats not really difficult is it. Lets look at what skoda did. Replace PD100 with PD130. Fit thinker front anti roll bar and stiffer springs/dampers. Anyone at Ripspeed can do that. :P

And that will make it handle better than my 4wd? :confused:

[robmawer]

Well my 4wd handles better than my Fabia VRS for sure!

Handles or grips?

Rob.

[bengie]

again, ask gary about my 20 year old tinpot AWD mazda against his sooper dooper brand new FWD fabia

hopefully i'll be learning some FWD losers again this year but in a different 4WD car

[Easy Life]

Handles or grips?

Rob.

Well, its certainly not going to grip like a 4wd!

[robmawer]

Well, its certainly not going to grip like a 4wd!

:confused: Looks like you missed my point...

You said:

"Well my 4wd handles better than my Fabia VRS for sure!"

To which my question is (to elaborate), is it that it *handles* better than a Fabia vRS or that it *grips* better than a Fabia vRS?

Either way the inability of a Fabia vRS to provide nice handling doesn't prove or disprove the characterisics of a 4WD...

Rob.

[andypandypoos]

...which my question is (to elaborate), is it that it *handles* better than a Fabia vRS or that it *grips* better than a Fabia vRS?...

or does it have better traction than his vRS?

[robmawer]

again, ask gary about my 20 year old tinpot AWD mazda against his sooper dooper brand new FWD fabia

That just proves that a specific AWD car is quicker than a FWD car...quicker doesn't necessarily mean that the car is nicer or more controllable to drive, just that it is quicker.

Rob.

[Captain Sisko]

So a fiat panda 4x4 handles better than a Saxo? (never driven an old panda so I'm just guessing here)

Think I still have my top gear video which is based around handling where Richard Burns and Tim Harvey picked a little 106 gti over the likes of an M3, GTO etc.

On paper I think RWD is best because you have the rears being driven and the front doing the steering. 4WD has the same disadvantages as FWD as you still have the front wheels trying to do 2 things at once which is not good.

This is really a pointless discussion. A car handles as well as it been designed.

Thats a good point.

Take 2 Audis a 3.0 Quattro and the 2.7 both TDIs

The reviews said the 2.7 car feels livlier even though the engine is smaller because it's not bogged down with the 4WD.

I drove a Corsa (one before the mini-Astra shape) as a courtesy car whilst my Felly was having a new panel. Despite the Corsa offering a tad more grip it lacked the feel and handling of the Felicia.

Remember both are FWD, the Corsa might have been quicker in a straight line thanks to its' 1.2 16v 80 odd BHP but not like my Skoda to drive.

Prooving Fabookas point. A car is only as good as its' design.

[philc]

[faboka vrs]

And that will make it handle better than my 4wd? :confused:

I'm a little confused here. I've not once said in this thread that the fabia vrs is a good handling car nor did I say it handles better than a 4WD. :confused:

[Shifty]

again, ask gary about my 20 year old tinpot AWD mazda against his sooper dooper brand new FWD fabia

hopefully i'll be learning some FWD losers again this year but in a different 4WD car

Is your tin pot Mazda going to Trax this year?

[bengie]

That just proves that a specific AWD car is quicker than a FWD car...quicker doesn't necessarily mean that the car is nicer or more controllable to drive, just that it is quicker.

Rob.

it was in reply to this post of yours infact

That said, 4WD will always handle appallingly, and people will keep on mistaking handling for grip...

[Shifty]

Also oddly, just had this discussion a few days ago on my local forum.... I ended up closing it.

I'm no huge fan of 4wd personally - I think in general but clearly not all cases, they understeer too much. Setting off, and slippery conditions they come into thier own.

The Fabia doesn't handle at all well, only the extra grunt of a modified one helps drag it through the corners. Mine is fully stripped as some of you know which makes it alot lighter, but this doesnt stop it being grossly heavy at the front.