I think that the only way to sort this out once and for all is to get a 4WD Fabia vRS, and race it against a FWD vRS.

That would be the only way to find out.?

The only thing that would prove would be whether the Fabia vRS has better handling characteristics as FWD or 4WD - wouldn't actually prove that either of them actually had good handling characteristics, just which one was least worse.

Rob.

The only thing that would prove would be whether the Fabia vRS has better handling characteristics as FWD or 4WD - wouldn't actually prove that either of them actually had good handling characteristics, just which one was least worse.

Rob.

True... but it would would still be funn.!

Michael.

VTR and GTi are different.

VTR = 6v and earlier ones didn't have ABS

VTS = 16v and thinner ARB than GTI

GTi = Leather Seats and 16V.

Any difference in speed between VTS and GTI book figures is down to testing methods and other variables.

I can confirm that a GTI will do 62mph/100kph (GPS) in 2nd gear

And something else to consider is weight

My GTI is around 145BHP and weight 935KGs so it = 158BHP per ton

A Fabia VRS with 180BHP and weighing what .. 1270KS?? = 144bhp per ton

Weight is the key. You get a lot of 160bhp GTi's and VTS's = 174BHP PER TON

To put this into perspective an 07 Audi S3 AWD weighing 1530KG’s = 174BHP per TON and has a 4x4 drive train loss to contend with. So you can see why the French tin cans make such rapid little cars.

Gary said the car beat me o the road.

I'll bet you place that girl on the in the same Saxo and Gary in the VRS will be quicker.

She might be able to go fast in a straight line but round corners? Prob not, unless she knows her car.

but gary got a spanking from mavis around silverstone last year :P and as i understand it, this isn't his first fabia vrs so he knew the car. and mavis is 4wd, has less power and proper scary bad brakes...although i've no doubt that gary's newly improved car would have returned the favour this year

VTR and GTi are different.

VTR = 6v and earlier ones didn't have ABS

VTS = 16v and thinner ARB than GTI

GTi = Leather Seats and 16V.

Any difference in speed between VTS and GTI book figures is down to testing methods and other variables.

I can confirm that a GTI will do 62mph/100kph (GPS) in 2nd gear

And something else to consider is weight

My GTI is around 145BHP and weight 935KGs so it = 158BHP per ton

A Fabia VRS with 180BHP and weighing what .. 1270KS?? = 144bhp per ton

Weight is the key. You get a lot of 160bhp GTi's and VTS's = 174BHP PER TON

To put this into perspective an 07 Audi S3 AWD weighing 1530KG’s = 174BHP per TON and has a 4x4 drive train loss to contend with. So you can see why the French tin cans make such rapid little cars.

buy that man a drink.

I thought the panels were actually interchangeable.

Sorry should have used sarcasm tags.

The chassis is the same, then engines are the same but in variosu states of tune depending on model, the suspension versions are the same, lots of other parts are the same and I think while some of the other body pannels are different they do have the same mounting points so you can swap over certain combinations.

IIRC the boot and bumpers all swap just fine too.

From what i remember some saxo's had a few plastic panels, but I could be wide of the mark there.

Its actualy pretty difficult to swap panels over. I.e. The VTR kit wont go on a GTi or the otherway around without some arch cutting.

Most the internal workings are exactly the same. They even come in plastic bags with the Peugeot and Citroen badge on them.

They are good cars depending what you want from them. Now i'm doing A LOT more miles I want something a little more comfortable and sturdy. Fortunatly the girlfriend is probably going to take the Gti off me so I can still have a blast at weekends.

well over rated or not mate as you can see by my avatar its an rb320 not sti,different set up altogether and as you state "scoobys are ultimate chav mobiles" what chav do you know how can afford to insure one?

and to answer your question their both running hybrid turbo's they could spend whatever they liked on them mate they wouldn't come near the scoob i drive,heard the expression chewed up and spat out different league altogether for example stays with an aston martin vanquish,when the aston driver is flat out all over the shop trying to keep the tail end in check,and they ask you what the **** have you done to that and when you tell them standard mate their look is priceless,have a read about the 320 before you start throwing complete crap about.

i own a fabia vrs good at what they meant for,but their no tarmac chewing beasts as you seem to think

i've proved what i say on track,no matter how many times i do there s allways a pretender keybored warrior who will never be able to back up what hew types,come to blyten and i will own you so come on big man put up or shut up end of(i suspect you won't do either but at least now you have the opportunity,just because you own a fabia does not mean you have a clue how mine goes,in a straight line you would win but on the twisty's well come and find out,being as its a scoobynet trackday i allready know what would happen)

God, is this thread still going? :P

i've proved what i say on track,no matter how many times i do there s allways a pretender keybored warrior who will never be able to back up what hew types,come to blyten and i will own you so come on big man put up or shut up end of(i suspect you won't do either but at least now you have the opportunity,just because you own a fabia does not mean you have a clue how mine goes,in a straight line you would win but on the twisty's well come and find out,being as its a scoobynet trackday i allready know what would happen)

he wont come to blyton, the chocolate gearbox or dodgy number 3 cylider would not handle it.....

sadly im not sure i will make it either... as have compressed a disc in my lower back.. suspect the chiro wont approve of tearing round blyton teaching derv burners how to drive.....

God, is this thread still going? :P

yes:P

Ohh.....is that the time, damn I've left the gas or something, gotta go .........

Ohh.....is that the time, damn I've left the gas or something, gotta go .........

The power to weight ratio is somewhere around 220bhp/ton, this is the equivalent of well over 300bhp in a modern impreza or evo

Spec now:

Engine:

TU5J4 1.6 16v

Emerald M3D ECU with shed motorsport adapter loom

All unused wires in engine bay removed

Baffled peugeot sport sump

Mocal oil cooler with thermostat

Polished and balanced crankshaft

New bearings all round

Rebore

Steel H section conrods

ARP rod bolts

High compression kit car pistons

Enlarged inlet and exhaust valves

Head ported to suit bigger valves and match inlet & exhaust systems

Solid camshaft followers

Double Stronger Valve springs

Catcams 803 cams

Maxi(S1600) exhaust header

2.5" stainless exhaust system

Maxi individual direct to head throttle bodies

Long polished trumpets

Larger pico injectors

Peugeot sport grpN engine mounts(upgrading to grpA in near future)

Lightened and balanced flywheel

VTS fuel system setup

Transmission:

Valeo OE VTS clutch, brand new, quivvering with fear

S2 Rallye gearbox rebuilt with brand new citroen synchro rings, bearings, with uprated input shaft bearing, new seals etc

Quaife ATB differential with new bearings.

VTS driveshafts

Chassis:

2002 VTR chassis

Full 10 point OMP roll cage with door bars

Scuttle removed

Upper sparco strut brace, painted black

Lower OMP strut brace

Suspension:

My new spec faulkners custom springs, lowering 35-40mm roughly.

Peugeot sport grpA front dampers to match

Uprated wishbone bushes on new wishbones

New droplinks

New track rod ends

Power steering removed

Rear beam refurbished with new double bearings

Polyrace solid beam bushes

22mm peugeot sport torsion bars(standard are 19mm)

24mm rear anti roll bar(france are out of 25s at the mo)

GrpN Bilstein rear dampers

Shed motorsport toe settings

Wheels & Brakes:

15" VTS alloys with 195/50 Toyo R888s fitted

306 GTi6 front brake calipers

Brembo 283mm front discs

Mintex M1155 front pads

OE mintex rear discs and pads

Goodridge braided hoses all round

406 23.8mm master cylinder

DOT 5.1 fluid thoroughly flushed through

Brake bias valve unseized, tested and adjusted

Bodywork & exterior:

Debadged boot, dewipered with wiring stripped out

Procomp carbon fibre bonnet with inner frame removed - weighs nothing.

Aerocatches for bonnet

Streamline carbon Fibre mirror caps

Mk1 rear lights

Fog lights removed & black meshed

Front grille de-slatted and black meshed

Storm single wiper conversion(temp measure)

Interior:

Stripped of all sound deadening & carpet

All unused wiring removed right back to fuse box and beyond.

VTS dials fitted with oil temp and coolant temp wired up to them.

TIM oil pressure and temp gauges in carbon panel

Window switches, fan override switch and hazard switch relocated to above gauges in carbon panel.

Glovebox removed

heater fan etc removed

Carbon composite "rudi" front doorcards

S2 106 lower door bins

Cobra monaco S buckets(temp measure)

Cobra sliding subframes

Black LUKE 4 point harnesses

I may own this car

Edited 24 July, 200817 yr by AlexR

Great ................I'm glad I know that

he wont come to blyton, the chocolate gearbox or dodgy number 3 cylider would not handle it.....

sadly im not sure i will make it either... as have compressed a disc in my lower back.. suspect the chiro wont approve of tearing round blyton teaching derv burners how to drive.....

Hope your back gets better soon, I know how you feel ....

but why...

its a saxo.??

Why not?

You take what is one of the best handling hatches(or even cars?) ever(according to numerous motoring journalists) 106gti/saxo vtr/s, same chassis, different rear anti roll bar and front springs. Then you make it much stiffer, add a load more power, a quaife diff and some sticky tyres and you have one very fun car that handles nicely. A fabia can only dream of handling as well as a standard saxo/106 no matter how much you mod it, at the end of the day it weighs 400kg more as standard and has a very heavy engine in the front end.

This car is designed for track days which are where badge snobbery isn't really existant, unlike say a skoda forum or your local pub, and it's performance speaks for itself really.

Why not?

You take what is one of the best handling hatches(or even cars?) ever(according to numerous motoring journalists) 106gti/saxo vtr/s, same chassis, different rear anti roll bar and front springs. Then you make it much stiffer, add a load more power, a quaife diff and some sticky tyres and you have one very fun car that handles nicely. A fabia can only dream of handling as well as a standard saxo/106 no matter how much you mod it, at the end of the day it weighs 400kg more as standard and has a very heavy engine in the front end.

This car is designed for track days which are where badge snobbery isn't really existant, unlike say a skoda forum or your local pub, and it's performance speaks for itself really.

I totally agree I bet it's a great laugh etc.

I just wondered why you felt you had to show us it in this epic thread.

Sorry but I got a bit of a head on me tonight, don't know why either:O(see diet coke thread for further arseyness)

Well it's a thread about a saxo annihilating a fabia vRS, and i thought i'd give an example of a saxo that would easily annihilate any vRS, so it has some relevance. I wasn't expecting a plethora of people saying ooo wow that's amazing etc.

Know of plenty of people running nigh on 300bhp in saxos and 106s, that however i do think is a bit pointless as there is no traction up to 4th in the dry even with a diff and nice tyres and i can't see it being that easy to control around corners.

End of the day a fun weekend/track car is designed to do just that, looks and reputation don't really rank that high in the list of priorities!

If you don't mind me asking, how much £££ did that Saxo take to put together Alex?

Hope your back gets better soon, I know how you feel ....

thanks mate.. im hoping so too.... or the bmw wont get used at all this year.

If you don't mind me asking, how much £££ did that Saxo take to put together Alex?

do you mean put together or take to bits... stripping out any car is the most effective mod you can make....

theres alot of time and money gone into that saxo so yer it should beat a vRS.. but i bet it cost more than a vRS to build too....

do you mean put together or take to bits... stripping out any car is the most effective mod you can make....

A lot of the kit on that car isn't standard