DSG disappointment

[dominic81]

I'm on my second 2.0TDI Elegance Octy 2 and have generally been very happy. However, the second (which I've only had a few months) is a DSG which I bought on the strength of the rave reviews on this site. However, I have to say I am disappointed in a number of respects, and I susect it may not be function to the best of its abilities. I would therefore welcome fellow DSG users' comments on the below problems. Do you think mine's a duff or needs attention, or are my expectations just too high? The problems I'm having, specifically:

1. Up changes not smooth - noticable lift of power shortly before the box shifts up, and if you put your foot down each one gives you a real jerk

2. Around 35mph the box behaves really weirdy, appearing to be indecisive about whether it should be in 4th or 5th, with the result that the car does not run smoothly at this speed.

3. Complete inability to stop smoothly whilst in D, due the the sudden engine braking which comes in when the box shifts down gears, esp to 2nd. Switching to manual mode solves the problem but surely I shouldn't have to do that every time I want to stop at the lights!?

4. Generally running in too low a gear. Particularly, it doesn't shift up from 4 to 5 until about 35 and not into six until over 45. In my old manual car I used to happily tickle along at 30 in 6th. I find myself constantly flicking it into manual mode to over-ride. Really annoying.

5. Even in manual mode it won't allow you to overide until higher than I would often have changed up in my manual one. Can't engage 5th until 30 or 6th until 38. Idle speed in 6th is about 28. So why won't it let me engage it then?

6. I generally feel that the gearbox is not mapped to best suit the capabilities of the 140PD engine. In common with my old car, there is a noticeable drop off in torque above 4000 rpm. I never used to take the old one over 3,500. There was no point - the car will accellerate faster at 2500rpm in the next gear up. In this context I find it somewhat baffling that if you put your foot to the floor it takes the revs right up to the 4500 red line before changing up. Ok in manual mode leave it to the driver to decide but if I put my foot to the floor in auto I want max power, not messing about at 4500rpm which just knackers the engine and doesn't give me full accelleration.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[Lady Elanore]

If the engine idle speed in 6th equates to 28mph and you want to drive it in that gear, wouldn’t you be labouring the engine badly in all but the most favourable conditions?

[Tech1e]

Sounds like you have issues with your box. I'd get it looked at.

[bertJ]

4. Generally running in too low a gear. Particularly, it doesn't shift up from 4 to 5 until about 35 and not into six until over 45. In my old manual car I used to happily tickle along at 30 in 6th. I find myself constantly flicking it into manual mode to over-ride. Really annoying.

5. Even in manual mode it won't allow you to overide until higher than I would often have changed up in my manual one. Can't engage 5th until 30 or 6th until 38. Idle speed in 6th is about 28. So why won't it let me engage it then?

My DSG (140bhp pdi L&K) behaves exactly as you state in your comments 4 and 5. It's interesting that my wife's 105bhp pdi DSG VW Golf changes up far sooner than the 140bhp. It's often in 6th at 35 mph. Presumably the designers mapped the DSG to the varying characteristics of both engines. Possibly it's designed to prevent upward changes happening too early for the torque characteristics of the engine. You could, of course, argue that you were changing up at too low revs on the manual gearbox. Otherwise the Octavia gearbox is fine and has none of the other problems you describe - probably time for a visit to the dealer.

[runboy]

I agree with some of your issues. When coming to a halt I too find that as the gears move down there is a jolt before you come to a complete halt.

Also I am surprised at how fast you can go before the car considers moving into 5th. I can be in the 40's before it will consider a change to 5th. This could be right but I'm not convinced. Can anyone confirm this.

I find one of the biggest issues is when you lift of quickly then reapply the power - say someone dithers then decides what they are doing, or you have to slow a bit for a roundabout then see you can go if you put your foot down. In this situation the box doesn't seem to know what to do for a second or two then it will bang/jolt into a lower gear and away you go.

I know DSG isn't a traditional auto, but I feel the praise the box gets isn't the same feeling I have for it. Indeed didn't a performance car mag running a Golf with the DSG call it awful?

[Ray_Green]

I have a 1.9 TDI. My DSG box is as smooth as silk.

[Hauptmann]

I have driven a couple of DSGs (on a VW and on a Skoda) and personally I'm not that keen on them and don't quite understand the rave reviews. I think they make a good alternative to a traditional auto, but they do take away a lot of the control you have with a manual.

The strong engine braking when slowing down is a feature, as is the 'indecisiveness' when coming on and off the throttle. The latter is a function of the fact that DSG is a two-shaft preselector gearbox and basically is pre-engages the next gear it thinks you will use. If you change your mind then the gearbox is wrong-footed and has to disengage and then engage another gear. I've also found the DSG to have a slight 'delay' - eg when wanting to pull briskly onto a roundabout.

Overall I don't think there is anything wrong with the OP's DSG, I think you are just describing the characteristics of the DSG.

[Birdwell L&K]

My 2.0 tdi dsg is as smooth as silk and have had no issues or problems at all.

[fortyfirs]

We have the 140 Elegance and find that at low speeds ie 30 mph and it is in 5-6 it seems to hesitate, however its no real problem. The changing down when say coming up to a stop i find great as often i drift up without applying brakes.The rest of it i find its the best box we have had.

[Birdwell L&K]

I have found with the indecision of the box is down to personal driving style. I am a very smooth driver and always looking to increase mpg and therefor have no problems with the box at all.

[Birdwell L&K]

30mph and 6th gear, you are all making your engine labour and work alot harder than it has to.

[octavia5]

Had my 2.0tdi DSG for nearly 3 years and have found the box silky smooth - as others - only issue is it does not change down quick enough if you come to a give way junction and want to power out into traffic, Sport or Manual solves that one.

Sounds very much like you have problems with your box and should get it sorted by your stealers - these boxes are renound for their smooth changes and are actually promoted as such by VAG so don't be fobbed off that your is anything other than faulty

[PumpeDuse]

28mph in sixth, remind me not to buy a car from you used. The labour on the engine is more harmful than letting it spin freely.

[dominic81]

Many thanks for all the posts so far. I will get mine looked at.

For all you people complaining about my driving in 6th at 30, don't kid yourselves that this 'labours' the engine. Anything but. The lower revs mean it is working less hard. It is almost always most economical to drive in the highest gear possible for the speed you are driving - assuming you are driving at relatively constant speed and on a flat road. Obviously if you want to speed up or come to a hill then yes, you will need to change down. I think you'll find if you observe your mpg meters in different gears at constant 30mph on the flat you will find that 6th is best...! Obviously those with DSG can't do this for reasons mentioned above!

[TorqueDude]

Dominic,

As I understand it, to drive along at 30mph requires a certain amount of power. If you half the revs then you double the amount of power that has to be produced from each cylinder on each combustion cycle. This puts a harsh load on the engine when its in a low rpm/low inertia state. Hence the comments above about labouring the engine. Whilst it may give you a little extra mpg, engine life may be reduced so it may be false economy.

Cheers, TD

[PumpeDuse]

When an engine labours, the pistons in the bore no longer want to travel up and down unrestricted, they want to move side to side, therefore making the bore wear faster.

[Labtech]

I had 2 - one for almost 2 years which was smooth, no jerky changes and made me want to get another one and the second one for 4 weeks which turned out to be an ex-rental vehicle that needed a new gearbox at 12000 miles,which I rejected and got my money back.

Sounds like theres something not quite right with it - don't let the dealer fob you off - should be smooth.

[gregozedobe]

I have a rough rule of thumb for both my engines :

Little or no engine load - Below 1,500 rpm is OK

Low-Med engine load - Keep revs above 1,500

Med-High engine load - Keep revs above 2,000

I may lose a tiny amount in extra fuel consumption, but it is much easier on bearings, flywheel and clutch, driveshafts etc, plus if I need to accelerate unexpectedly (eg to avoid an accident) I can do so immediately without need for a gearchange. I prefer manuals, so I need to do all the thinking for my gearboxes.

[mrlapou]

Use VCDS (Vagcom) to perform a re-calibration of the box.

[cjb]

My 2.0 tdi dsg is as smooth as silk and have had no issues or problems at all.

My Leon 2.0 TDI DSG is fine too. No flicking between gears, and it's mostly very smooth.

[fortyfirs]

It has been quoted that doing about 30 mph will cause engine wear, i am no mechanic but if the box is happy to stay in a higher gear then let it , if it is going to labour for a fraction of time it will downchange automaticly as that is what it should do. I believe that in some conditions at these low speeds in higher gear it will hesitate and that is what i have observed on mine , as i said its a great box.

[rockhopper]

My DSG gives jerky changes when cold, but smooth when warm, will change up to 4th around late 20's, 5th around late 30's and 6th mid 40's, you can 'force' the car into 5th at 30 using manual, and 6th at 40 using manual. The car has now done 65,000 miles.

Like any auto I've ever driven, if you slow down for a junction then decide to go it can confuse the gearbox - selecting 1st where you would use 2nd, and for general driving where you might use 3rd, it may use 2nd for going round junctions etc.

It is the best auto box I have ever used compared to Ford:thumbdwn: BMW 5sp & 6sp tiptronic:thumbup: Jaguar:thumbup:Vauxhall:thumbdwn:

Discovered in a trip round London's biggest orbital car park that it selects 2nd almost as soon as it moves off in heavy stop start traffic.

Best get away at traffic lights I have found is remove foot from brake then once initial movement use the throttle.

Mike

[Bagpuss]

I've recently moved from a 2.0TDI 140 L+K DSG to a new Superb, and just prior to doing so my box started exhibiting all of the problems you describe in points 1-4 in your original posting. Mine also starting exhibiting really long change times when going from a foward gear into reverse. Sometimes, it would take nearly 5 seconds before reverse was engaged, where it had previously been almost instant.

Shortly afterwards, the box died completely, and was stuck in limp home mode. The car was still under warranty, so Skoda simply swapped the box for a new one.

It sounds to me like you have some definite problems, as my box was always extremely smooth in all it's changes, both up and down the gearbox and always came smoothly to a stop.

So much so, that I'm really wishing I'd order my Superb with DSG. When a DSG box works properly, I think they are very good. It does take a little bit of getting used to, though.

Bagpuss.

[cheezemonkhai]

Wonder if ther eis a way to firmware update the DSG controller.

If so I wonder if different cars have the change points set differently.

[rockhopper]

Is there any way you can prevent kick down? would be useful when rolling road testing - mine produced 196bhp as standard because of this problem!