This is for DSG only : when you are at a stop light is it better to shift to neutral or live it in drive?

Of course when you just stop for a few seconds you stay in drive.

I usually shift to neutral when I stay for more than 10 seconds.

Is it better for the gearbox or not?

When I drove the Passat CC with DSG, I noted a definite "drag" on the engine whilst sitting with it in "drive" and stationary. Having ordered my Oct Estate with DSG - I will be putting it in neutral whilst at a standstill. I don't know how much it costs to replace clutches but it isn't going to be cheap!!!

Its fine to leave in drive.

Don't forget your brakes either though, if you leave the footbrake on or engage the handbrake.

If for example, you come off the motorway and carry out some sustained braking then sit in Drive with the footbrake on, the heat could warp your discs.

together with your foot on the footbrake blinding the poor s*d behind...

Personal opinion is one of two ways...

If you sit in Neutral, then put the handbrake on.

If you sit in Drive, leave the footbrake on (when released in drive it engages some clutch - Thus if you sit there in drive with the handbrake on then I guess things are going to get hot).

My opinion anyhow...Cheers...TD

Never driven a DSG equipped car, but being an Automotive Engineer, I would be very surprised if this situation hadn't been considered. VW are very good at this kind of thing, so, considering the car will be driven like an Auto by a good number of people, I can't see it being a problem leaving the thing in D. There are sensors galore on the 'box, so if the clutch was dragging and getting hot (which I can't believe it would) it would do something to stop it getting hot!

Personally, I would treat this situation the same as if I were driving a full auto. For longer period at lights, remain in Drive and apply the handbrake.

Steve

You can leave it in drive, cause it knows to shutdown the engine by itself if overheating. But since there are clutches in the thing, more so, dry clutches in the DSG7, I'd shift it to neutral or park for more than 10-20secs standing still, this is not a regular automatic.

If it looks like I will be stopped for more than a few seconds then I always drop into Neutral on the basis that if you can feel the car 'pulling/dragging' forward there must be some drag on one of the clutches and therefore some wear.

Normal autos with a torque converter are designed to slip with no wear on any moving parts but logically the DSG must semi engage the 1st gear clutch to create the drag so must wear, even if its only very little.

Personally, I would treat this situation the same as if I were driving a full auto. For longer period at lights, remain in Drive and apply the handbrake.

Steve

:eek: There is no way a DSG equipped car should be held in drive using the handbrake. The clutches are only disengaged when the footbrake is depressed. There is a warning on page 134 of the handbook 'When the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary, it is necessary to hold the car with the brake pedal in all the positions of the selector lever'

Similarly on page 132 'Stopping for a short time - The selector lever position N does not have to be selected when stopping just for a short time ....... it is sufficient to hold the vehicle stationary using the foot brake.'

If anyone doubts this then just try holding the car in D on the handbrake; you will feel the car straining badly against the brake. If this contines for long enough than the overload protection will be actuated because of overheating of the clutches.

If you leave a DSG car in Drive, and use the Handbrake to hold the car then the clutch will engage. If you sit stationary for even a short period of time major clutch wear will take place, imagine sitting at lights with the handbrake on in a manual gearbox with 1st gear selected but sitting on the clutch biting point all the time, not good. The DSG should only be held in Drive by using the footbrake, that way the clutch remains disengaged.

The DSG box is not a conventional auto box by any means which uses a torque convertor and with these it doesnt matter how you hold the car stationary.

I thought that in DSG, once you applied the footbrake the clutch is disengaged, therefore no damage can be done.

Footbrake, yes thats ok you can leave in drive. However do not apply the handbrake and remove your foot from the footbrake whilst still in drive because the clutch will be engaged and start to wear.

Only one post on this thread acknowledges the point that even with the footbrake depressed the engine is under load when stationary in drive - Maybe it shouldn't be but it is -you can feel it. The wear this causes is bound to be minimal but the loading is certainly more than you sense if you sit at the lights with a manual in first gear and the clutch depressed. Mine will be going into neutral if I'm stationary for more than a few seconds. Necessary? . . probably not but can only help reduce clutch wear in my opinion!!

To sit with it in drive and held on the handbrake is nuts and the quickest way to destroy a DSG before its time.

From reading the manual, I move to neutral for more than a few seconds at the lights and use te handbreak, same as I would a manual car.

If im breifly stopped, I hold it on the footbrake.

Likewise

Trust me.The thing will be programmed not to damage the clutch in such a commonly occurring situation! I would say that well over 75% of people who will drive a DSG car will have no idea how it works, and hence will not see it as being any different to an Auto and will therefore hold it on the brake for a long period of time. VW are not stupid, unlike the majority of their customers (not you guys).

The question 'what if the driver is at the lights and leaves it in drive like a regular auto' will have been covered in their programming strategy. It would probably be the first situational programming they did on the thing since it's probably the most likely thing to occur that doesn't involve shifting gears around.

If on the other hand you were asking 'If I'm towing a caravan that's overloaded by 10% stuck in traffic on a 1 in 3 gradient, is it OK to hold the car on the accelerator and hence DSG clutch'

...then no. I would say, don't try it since it's a situation that would be considered an abuse case. I can almost guarantee you that they will have tested for it, but it won't do the car any good. There are abuse cases we test for where we overload things by 100% vmax it and generally abuse the crap out of it and we very rarely have any problems. People are really stupid. Everything ridiculous you can think of doing, someone will try and do it. Equally, any bizarre operating condition you can think of will have been thought of as well as what if's like sensor failure and ecu resets.

As an automotive design engineer, this is exactly the kind of things I have to think about on a day to day basis. Basic stuff like leaving the thing in drive is taken as given. It's not something they would consider an abuse case. Unless it specifically says in your manual 'Caution: Leaving the transmission in drive whilst holding the car on the brakes can cause serious damage to the clutch possibly leading to loss of control and an accident' there is no problem doing this at all. If there isn't a very obvious and explicit warning about something, it's generally OK to do it! Liability culture does have it's uses now and again.

A good explanation

Unless it specifically says in your manual

But according to BertJ in post #11, there is something in the manual...

It depends what word precedes it though.

NOTE: Means - It is advised that you follow this information since it will guarantee correct operation (e.g. using approved washer fluid)

CAUTION: Means - This MAY cause mechanical damage and or may mean something may not perform as intended. (e.g. this might precede any note about the use of tyres outside the list of approved models)

WARNING: Means - Doing this (or not doing this, whichever is appropriate), IS LIKELY TO cause mechanical failure or a loss in performance that can lead to an accident that may cause injury. (e.g. driving at over 50mph on your space saver).

A NOTE generally means 'we would rather you do this, but it's up to you as the owner. It's unlikely to cause any serious damage but may decrease the value/appearance of the vehicle. Washing the thing with detergent would be a good example. It's not going to cause you to have an accident or damage the operation of the car, but it will make it look crap and damage the paint.

Another interesting thing about DSG when standing still: when I stop and leave it in drive it consumes 0.7-0.9 L/h, when I put it in neutral it consumes 0.5-0.7 L/h. But when I stop, if I put it in neutral and then back in drive, without leaving the foot off the brake, the clutch doesn't seem to engage and the instant consumption is still 0.5-0.7 L/h (the same as in neutral). Only after I leave the foot off the brake the consumption is higher (and I start of course). And the first start after beeing in neutral is slower, because i thing the clutch would not engage unless I release the brake and it takes longer.

The next starts (without shifting to neutral) are more responsive, because i thing the clutch is engaged a little.

It is interesting after a long time in drive and standing still if the clutch disengages fully (consumption between 0.5 and 0.7 L/h)? never tried yet.

personally i prefer to shift into neutral when stationery for an extended period.

when in Drive and stationery with the footbrake pressed is the car in gear with the clutch disengaged or does the computer shift the gearbox into neutral?. if the former, this would surely heat up the gearbox oil has the clutch plates spin past each other.

with my old slushmatic gearbox cars i would shift into neutral to prevent excessive heating of the transmission fluid in the torque convertor. with both types of gearbox the oil is expensive to replace.