Minus 25-30 BHP

[Kentish]

Fourthly' date=' Kentish. If you are seriously suggesting that tuners have some sort of switch that they flick when they get a car on the rollers that hasn't been worked on by them then [/quote']

Ok then, put it this way. Having read this sort of thread before, and post RR days why does it often appear that the hosts results tend to appear better and on-expectation than "other" retailers work?

I may be wrong...but that is how it appears to me, someone who hasnt gone down that route and isnt interested in it (much).

Personally I couldnt give a monkeys about the whole debate, I just post as I find and generally find the whole debate amusing.

[stathap]

entertaining debate

[rich1068]

I agree, it is amusing and in the grand scheme of things I couldn't give a monkeys either. The debate will always be there though. TBH I like it (and I'm sure you do too), we can go weeks with nothing to really get your teeth into and then hey ho, up it pops again.

I could give you an example of a 'host' giving more than expected on a.n.others chip but I won't. My only real experience of RRs is at JBS and stock cars gave stock figures and remapped cars gave remapped figures.

And on, and on, and on.................................................

[Steve vRS]

Surely all the maps are the same?

They all try to get the most BHP from a 1.8T engine without blowing them up.

They may have different ways to do it but I bet they are the same final outputs.

Simple as that.

Steve

PS RR's are a bit of fun and should not be taken as gospel. In fact, the gospel should not be taken as gospel but don't get me started on that

[Dutch4x4]

As a qualified techie it concerns me that their is such a variation between tuners' date=' our MOT equipment is calibrated the same as all other test stations, the results only differ if the input is wrong:confused:

[/quote']

I agree with Rich that closing this thread leads nowhere but it could go somewhere if someone with a technical mind could spread some light on Phil's comment above.

I'm not a techie myself but I can see why equipment should be calibrated - and why that would be no different for RRs. I can understand certain variations because of weather conditions but 30-35hp, come on! At least one of the two RRs is making a shambles of it.

The point is not whether we are happy with our remaps or not. It's whether you were sold the hp that you thought you got and that they advertised for. If I paid for a 210 hp chip, I'd be pretty miffed if it turned out to be 180'ish, even if it feels good. If I knew it had been 180 hp, I'd have paid half.

This is about money, not about the grin on your face.

[rich1068]

PS RR's are a bit of fun and should not be taken as gospel. In fact, the gospel should not be taken as gospel but don't get me started on that

And your other point is spot on too.

[DGW]

Rich, by generic I mean a map that can't be tweaked/customised/altered - or isn't tailored when installed when it could be. A custom map is one which is individually tailored/modified/tweaked to the car. Since you mention REVO, I haven't a clue whether or not their dealers can tweak the SPS1 and SPS2 programmes, although I do know that SPS3 does allows owners to change boost and timing. If the SPS1 and 2 programmes are left unchanged, I would class them as generic; if tweaked, then I would class them as custom. Likewise if Jabba remapped a car with programme which they did not then tweak, I would class that as generic. The ultimate custom programme would of course be one developed from scratch for an individual car.

[rich1068]

This is about money, not about the grin on your face.

It is and it isn't.

Revo transformed my car. Jabba et al have transformed others. Money only enters into my argument when I refer to the Superchip. It was garbage and not what I paid for.

The grin plays a very big part I think.

[Dan_P]

Jabba have a funky new coffee machine and a wide screen TV in the waiting room...

**** the BHP figures

so unless amd or whoever have got an instant mocachocalatte maker then its Jabba for me!!

[Dutch4x4]

Rich: my Oettinger chip is generic...

I agree that the transformation into a seat-of-the-pants car says a lot about the good work done. I'd pay for that too - but every performance has its price. If the performance was 30 hp out of what was advertised but still felt good, I'd pay but haggle a discount too...

That is unless a tuner doesn't advertise a fixed end result or certain "margins" in between which the end result will end up, but will only state that "your car will be transformed".

[DaveH]

Ah, that's more like it, I was expecting some fireworks this morning but was disappointed by peoples' restrained posting.

A couple of points I would make:

1 A generic map isn't a bad thing really, that's what the manufacturer's provide after all. Can anyone argue with a stated hp and torque gain for a stated price?

2 A rolling roads is a piece of measurement equipment which should be/is calibrated on a regular basis. There is no reason why all the RRs in Britain shouldn't read the same, atmospheric conditions/heat soak at the time of the test withstanding. If there is 30bhp difference between two RRs under similiar atmospheric conditions, one or both of them are wrong.

3 The figures you get out of a RR are very easy to 'tweak'. I've seen a RR software program ask if it should apply a correction factor of 1.2, if used this vastly changes the RR results. Also, people generally talk flywheel figures, these are at best an estimation. Quite what figure you add back to the wheel figure and how you apply it across the rev range makes a vast difference. In short, if somebody wanted to, they could make a RR read virtally anything.

4 I'm unsure of a Revo agents ability to change the map but i've heard it said more than once on more than one forum so its probably safe to assume they can. On the SPS front, the SPS3 unit allows boost and timing changes whenever required but owners of SPS1 and SPS2 units can have their settings changed by the Revo agent then these are automatically 'saved' to their SPS for reuse when switching to a different map.

Ah, that's better.

[rich1068]

Rich, by generic I mean a map that can't be tweaked/customised/altered - or isn't tailored when installed when it could be. A custom map is one which is individually tailored/modified/tweaked to the car. Since you mention REVO, I haven't a clue whether or not their dealers can tweak the SPS1 and SPS2 programmes, although I do know that SPS3 does allows owners to change boost and timing. If the SPS1 and 2 programmes are left unchanged, I would class them as generic; if tweaked, then I would class them as custom. Likewise if Jabba remapped a car with programme which they did not then tweak, I would class that as generic. The ultimate custom programme would of course be one developed from scratch for an individual car.

**** Denis, you're good. I was going to post this...

But if I'd bought an SPS3 I could tailor, modify or tweak every day of the week. And so can the tuner. eg you have your map done in the middle of summer, it's a hot day and you tell whoever that you always run Optimax. They RR your car to death finding just the right setting for you to drive away happy. The next day you get up for the drive to work and there is frost on the ground. Are the settings originally made the right ones?

But I can see where you're coming from. You're being a bit sly about the differences between the Revo programs. Fair play to you. So is the issue really about cost ie Revo is expensive and you get what you pay for?

[DaveH]

Oh, and I'll throw this back in the melting pot, how come figures of in access of 220hp are reported when the tuner himself has been quoted saying more than 220hp is not possible from just a remap and Borg Warner say both the turbo and fuel system max out at ~215-220hp?

[Josh_PoloGTi]

Just a minor amendment to your otherwise good post Dave:

The settings aren't actually saved to the SPS unit... The settings are stored within the ECU and the SPS switch does just that... Switches between the maps.

Sorry to be anal, just wanted to clear that up.

[rich1068]

On the SPS front, the SPS3 unit allows boost and timing changes

And what a bargain they are for the price

[rich1068]

Oh, and I'll throw this back in the melting pot, how come figures of in access of 220hp are reported when the tuner himself has been quoted saying more than 220hp is not possible from just a remap and Borg Warner say both the turbo and fuel system max out at ~215-220hp?

...because they're lying. They're all lying. Everyone is lying.

[Josh_PoloGTi]

The figures of 230 or so BHP always seem to come with other mods.

If you'd got a box-fresh Golf/A3/Octavia/Leon 180 BHP 1.8T and you stuck a remap on it, I'm sure you'd get no more than 215 BHP.

BUT, if you fit a Samco TIP, a CAI with a nice big filter on the end of it, a Downpipe, Sports Cat and Stainless 3" System, then I'm pretty sure that all that would give at least another 15 BHP...

[rich1068]

Des. Where are you now?

[Kentish]

The figures of 230 or so BHP always seem to come with other mods.

If you'd got a box-fresh Golf/A3/Octavia/Leon 180 BHP 1.8T and you stuck a remap on it' date=' I'm sure you'd get no more than 215 BHP.

BUT, if you fit a Samco TIP, a CAI with a nice big filter on the end of it, a Downpipe, Sports Cat and Stainless 3" System, then I'm pretty sure that all that would give at least another 15 BHP...[/quote']

So all that extra JUST for 15 hp?

LOL

[Josh_PoloGTi]

Quote from REVOTechnik.com:

Skoda Octavia 1.8T 180***

Standard BHP: 180

Standard Torque: 173

REVO BHP: 207

REVO Torque: 232

***4 bar FPR upgrade available (218bhp/240ftlb)

[stathap]

Just a minor amendment to your otherwise good post Dave:

The settings aren't actually saved to the SPS unit... The settings are stored within the ECU and the SPS switch does just that... Switches between the maps.

Sorry to be anal' date=' just wanted to clear that up. [/quote']

Hi Josh :wave:

I understand what you say above...

But my flash done a year and a half ago ... won't be the same as a REVO flash done now... will it :confused:

It can't be .... no way ... never ... ah ah :rotz:

[Jimmy]

Anyone see eastenders tonight? Proper ****e it is now. No wonder they sacked that bird who was in charge...

[rich1068]

You see that's the other thing. Revo have never said 230bhp.

[Josh_PoloGTi]

Quote from auto-AmD.com:

Re: Skoda Octavia RS Tuning:

Stage 1 Rechipping - including rolling road time, mapping, fitting, 'before/after' plots of power and torque, test drive. Workshop time about 3 hours. Performance gains approx. 40 bhp, 40 lbsft torque. Learn what the 'T' in 1.8T really stands for!

So that's 220 bhp and 213 lbft from them

[Kentish]

You watch Eastenders Jimmy?

Should come on here and drop the odd worm or two.