figures are great for the pub but its how it feels that matters.

Agreed, max bhp means xxxx all, I have heard of 400+ bhp scoobs beaten convincingly on the track by scoobs with much less bhp because the power band is much wider & the car is more driveable.

Rolling road figures are always subject to discussion & its considered that a certain company in our area ( no one mentioned on Briskoda) regularly gets poor figures out of cars tuned by others to make their mods look good.

I am confident knowing Scott that AMD wont be guilty of this but its something to always have at the back of your mind when viewing figures & shows that the operator can have a significant influence on figures even when the car appears to be reving its heart out.

Figures are always subjective but I am more than happy with the figures Jabba have given for my car & even if they are not whats claimed the car is incredibly driveable & will see off a lot of so called quicker cars

Oh & yes youve stirred up the hornets nest again but good banter always makes for good reading

Getting REALLY REALLY tired of all the ****-stirring going on with this particular subject.

Too many vested interests etc.

How about an instant ban for the next person to revive this topic?

I remember a time when this was a board for Skoda owners, not an Online Fight Club for the UK's major tuners to slug it out without shedding blood.

Getting REALLY REALLY tired of all the ****-stirring going on with this particular subject.

Too many vested interests etc.

How about an instant ban for the next person to revive this topic?

I remember a time when this was a board for Skoda owners' date=' not an Online Fight Club for the UK's major tuners to slug it out without shedding blood.[/quote']

But my car is faster than yours!!!*

per litre of fuel used

I know how my car compares against an Audi S3, and I trust VAG's own figures on what that produces, so I have a pretty good idea that mine is putting out the full 150bhp

I had an "issue" like this on a set of rollers that I visited a few months back. I set of rollers that I went on told me the car was pulling 158bhp standard :eek: which I thought god this must be a quick car, then my illustions where shattered when I put it on a set of rollers that I was told had been calibrated recently and it made 146bhp. Now I am more likely to believe the later

There will always be people who dig this up and there will always be people who argue the t0ss.

Tempreature makes a big difference, heat soke by running your car till it's hot makes a difference, not directing the cold air feed fan correctly makes a difference.

There are to many factors which can be tampered with and the only true way is to drop the engine out a hook it upto an engine dyno but how many peole are going to do this ?

Who cares what BHP the car makes it's the way it drives at the end of the day. I know my car isn't that much slower in gear than a 162bhp Clio Williams 2 yet my car is down on power by 16 bhp and is 300kg's heavier.

You pay your money and you take your choice.

:eek: what have i started:worried: :peepwall: :sofahide:

Exactly what you expected to start

Exactly what you expected to start

Zoidberg got to agree with you there this guy knew what he was starting, with comments like

:eek: I am now going to stir up a hornets nest....

:confused: Phil

WTF are you expecting !

Regardless of figures, as long as you're happy with how the car drives then that's all that matters.

It is difficult not to get caught up with the "mines bigger than yours" mentality....it's only a human reaction.

It's good that several differrent tuners are "represented" on Briskoda.....it gives a good idea of what's capable and a broad knowledge base for new members to get advice.

This subject will always generate a "healthy debate" and there will always be some unanswered questions.

I would take any standalone result from an RR with a pinch of salt. My preference is to go to an RR day with as many similar cars as possible so that comparisons can be made between cars that have run on the same RR on the same day.

per litre of fuel used

Rob.

Well even over here in Ireland we here the same thing said about some uk rollers. I have had my car on rolls at standard and wot the cars has on a hot day 178.9bhp. Now wit the Revo it should be 212bhp but if i drive it over to uk it could make 230hp!

It's good that several differrent tuners are "represented" on Briskoda.....it gives a good idea of what's capable and a broad knowledge base for new members to get advice.this subject will always generate a "healthy debate" and there will always be some unanswered questions.

Get off of my case...as Adrian says its good to have some discussion on this, i am not trying to stir things i just want to know who`s best to go to come "chipping" time. As a qualified techie it concerns me that their is such a variation between tuners, our MOT equipment is calibrated the same as all other test stations, the results only differ if the input is wrong:confused:

to several of you who seem to have taken an instant dislike to my honesty, and i am NOT trying to sway anyone towards any specific tuner:mad:

:P Phil

Talking of variation between tuners, which product should be better:

a. A generic programme or programmes which can be downloaded to an ECU from a laptop. No RR required, no tailoring to a car's modifications, and no before/after runs to show what the improvement is.

...or

b. A choice of programmes which have been refined over an extended period of time, which are then tailored to the individual vehicle and modifications and to the owner's requirements - with before/after runs which show the gains - and with one or more road tests if necessary to check that the remap is right. If the testing reveals any components are not working to spec (eg MAF or DV), they can be cleaned or changed as necessary so that the best is gained from the remap.

QED

PS. The only 'variation' which matters is the improvement between before and after graphs, ie the area between respective curves.

So, are you referring to Jabba vs The Rest then?

Not more Jabba BS...

You need reigning in...

Oh, by the way, that last post was sarcasm. In no way meant to offend.

So, are you referring to Jabba vs The Rest then?

Not necessarily, Josh. I'm talking about off the peg or made to measure. But if you read the first post, it seems to me that this started as a case of the rest against Jabba!

Again, i repeat what i said earlier.

Time to knock this one on the head, as it's clearly going to cause the sort of trouble certain "representatives" want.

Yep, fair enough.

Jabba do a good job. So do all the rest if I'm totally honest.

We've heard of bad stories from all the major tuners:

Jabba: Less power than expected

AmD: OneClick frying an ECU

REVO: Trial leaving a car stranded

APR: Trail leaving a car stranded

But then again, pretty much everyone else that's had their car mapped at any of the places has been really happy with their remap.

Now that pretty much everywhere does ODB-II programming, there's a lot less in it.

Yep, Jabba do tailored maps, but in honesty, will the driver notice much difference on the road than if he had AmD, APR or REVO??

I think we all know that peak BHP doesn't mean a lot unless one has 100, another has 200 and another has 300... 212 to 230 isn't going to make masses of difference, unless the torque is held for longer and is in a more usable place in the power band... Agreed?

Anyway, I'm happy with my map, you're happy with yours.... Now let's get on with driving!!!

Anyway' date=' I'm happy with my map, you're happy with yours.... Now let's get on with driving!!![/quote']

Trust me, you will be held to that statement.

That also applies to the others.

Thread closed anyone ?

Amen

Yep' date=' fair enough.

Jabba do a good job. So do all the rest if I'm totally honest.

We've heard of bad stories from all the major tuners:

Jabba: Less power than expected

AmD: OneClick frying an ECU

REVO: Trial leaving a car stranded

APR: Trail leaving a car stranded

But then again, pretty much everyone else that's had their car mapped at any of the places has been really happy with their remap.

Now that pretty much everywhere does ODB-II programming, there's a lot less in it.

Yep, Jabba do tailored maps, but in honesty, will the driver notice much difference on the road than if he had AmD, APR or REVO??

I think we all know that peak BHP doesn't mean a lot unless one has 100, another has 200 and another has 300... 212 to 230 isn't going to make masses of difference, unless the torque is held for longer and is in a more usable place in the power band... Agreed?

Anyway, I'm happy with my map, you're happy with yours.... Now let's get on with driving!!![/quote']

I agree.....

SeatCupra.net prefer Revo

Briskoda prefer Jabba

TTOC prefer AmD

and the list goes on.

They are the same engines.... so there is not one thats better than the others, it depends on your own circumstances... i went Revo as i:

A) had the money burning a hole in my pocket

didnt want to wait 1 1/2 months for a apptment @ jabba

C) Couldnt get time off work to go to Jabba/AmD

D) didnt fancy driving to Peterboro, or Bicester.

E) dont care about the mine is faster than yours thing

Revo suited me..... so im happy. and the butt dyno says its faster

LOL, got to say..what a load of old B******s.

A retailers rollers will surely give their product the best readout, and if RR is what you need then a totally unconnected independant is the only answer.

However as has been said, it must be about how your car feels and goes after whatever you have done, not that extra 3 hp on a graph.

And no, my car is fully standard and will remain so.

And my car is fully standard and will remain so.

And so is mine.

And so is mine.

No its not....you have a tarts grill

OK. First things first. Lets not lock the thread because that's what always happens on here. So long as personal insults are not involved then discussion/argument is good. Banning people is even more silly.

Secondly, like Eddy I too take RR's with a large pinch of salt. Club meets are the only time you can view their results with anything other than extreme scepticism.

Thirdly, Denis or whoever. Could you please give me a definition of a 'generic' and a 'custom' remap? Pretend for a second that you didn't know I'd had Revo done at JBS. When I had my car tuned I had previously met with the tuner a number of times and he had got to know what I wanted, what my driving style was and what sort of driving I did ie town, country, motorway etc. From this he decided on certain parameters that he thought would suit, specifically boost and timing. After a before and after RR (as it happened the RR was playing up and he got me back again at no charge) he let me take the car saying that if I wasn't happy he would be more than willing to tweak the map. Now does that sound 'custom' to you or does that sound like a tuner working within the confines of a third parties product ie 'generic' or 'off the shelf'? Far too often on here a 'custom' map is seen as the daddy and the 'generic' is the poor relation. Get over it.

Fourthly, Kentish. If you are seriously suggesting that tuners have some sort of switch that they flick when they get a car on the rollers that hasn't been worked on by them then But I do agree with you about how the car feels. Mine feels ****ing quick