BTCC

[camelspyyder]

Absolutely.  Its no different to back when Honda had really talented drivers and dominated.

WSR are doing a brilliant job, whilst some other teams are completely hamstrung by boost restrictions - Subaru 4mph slower at every speed trap.

 

I Just watched Oulton though. Matt Neal needs to stop his bullyboy tactics both on the track and afterwards.

He clearly used his bump and run tactic in race 2 on Moffat (and probably others off camera)

In race 3 he blamed Hill for their lap 1 collision at the hairpin when it was clear he (Neal) turned in on the Audi,

and then intimidated/tapped the Audi a couple of times whilst passing it down the start straight just prior to going off after the retaliatory nudge.

 

I 'm sure he was frustrated after the wheel fell off in race 1 but he really needs to control himself.

As usual, he's always happy to dish it out but not take it. 

 

I've lost count of the number of places he gained at the Oulton hairpin over the years without penalty - Teflon Team Dynamics are like the Ferrari of BTCC .

Edited 1 July, 2019 by camelspyyder

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, camelspyyder said:

intimidated/tapped the Audi a couple of times whilst passing it down the start straight just prior to going off after the retaliatory nudge.

OK, explain to me how that spin wasn't anything other than horribly dangerous, and everyone except JP got out of that smoke cloud unscathed by anything other than sheer luck.

[camelspyyder]

I agree it was a very dangerous situation but hardly looked deliberate. Neal was just slightly slow getting on the power (unless he was trying to back the kid into Plato?)

 

 

Edited 1 July, 2019 by camelspyyder

[KenONeill]

6 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

I agree it was a very dangerous situation but hardly looked deliberate. Neal was just slightly slow getting on the power (unless he was trying to back the kid into Plato?)

 

 

An hour ago it was "a retaliatory nudge", so what happened to change your mind?

[camelspyyder]

It looked like a nudge. it was dangerous. I haven't changed anything.

 

Matt Neal is a bully and got his just desserts for once.

Edited 1 July, 2019 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

Aiden Moffat to park Mercedes and race upgraded Infiniti instead:

 

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/144736/infiniti-to-return-to-btcc-grid-for-rest-of-2019

[Paul007]

Looks a nice motor. 

 

[camelspyyder]

Snetterton 300 - rubbish track for touring cars or not?

 

I was so bored watching race 2 that I spent the last third of the race on facebook, and then race 3 was just dire due to bad driving.

 

After all the talk about cleaning up driving standards, Plato thuggishly pushed off any car that broke through his slow Astra's defence.

 

I was amazed he actually got a penalty a few hours later.

 

Every year I get bored watching this round, whereas many of the tracks are really exciting.

[KenONeill]

20 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Plato thuggishly pushed off any car that broke through his slow Astra's defence.

That was my reaction too. And he's got previous for doing that going back to Super Touring days.

[camelspyyder]

It looks like Plato just cant handle the fact that Sutton destroyed him when in the same team, I don't think that's ever happened before.

 

But the other thing this weekend highlighted is the rubbish rewards for success in this series. The last 2 teams that built outstanding cars have been dumbed down to or beyond the level of everybody else.

 

The Subaru has been crippled by ride height and boost changes over the last 18 months, and now the BMW is getting the same treatment. However, anyone who can afford an old spec Honda Civic can be competitive.

 

Alan Gow should not be surprised if the works teams bugger off to WTCR instead next year.

 

Why does he think WSR /BMR would put all this effort in again to be made slower than the privateer teams once more?

 

 

Edited 5 August, 2019 by camelspyyder

[shyVRS245]

1 hour ago, camelspyyder said:

It looks like Plato just cant handle the fact that Sutton destroyed him when in the same team, I don't think that's ever happened before.

 

But the other thing this weekend highlighted is the rubbish rewards for success in this series. The last 2 teams that built outstanding cars have been dumbed down to or beyond the level of everybody else.

 

The Subaru has been crippled by ride height and boost changes over the last 18 months, and now the BMW is getting the same treatment. However, anyone who can afford an old spec Honda Civic can be competitive.

 

Alan Gow should not be surprised if the works teams bugger off to WTCR instead next year.

 

Why does he think WSR /BMR would put all this effort in again to be made slower than the privateer teams once more?

 

 

Success Ballast surely a complete contradiction. Why would you build a good race car and then throw in lumps of lead?

[camelspyyder]

Everybody in the series gets success ballast, but if you build a fast car you not only get a boost reduction but also have the centre of gravity moved upwards, negating whatever chassis advantages you've expensively engineered in. In the case of BMR they expressly chose to develop the Subaru because of it's layout advantages including a low CG so Alan Gow f**ked them for being so clever and they've been fighting a lack of speed on the straight ever since. BMW have already had a boost reduction this year, now they have the ride height raised and a simultaneous boost increase for all their opposition!

 

I can understand Balance of Performance rules in something like GT3 where huge Bentleys have to be equalised with lightweight Porsches and everything between, but in BTCC  with very proscribed rules, all the cars have similar dimensions and weights, the same suspension and in many cases the same engine, why? It's hardly worth even trying to build your own car if it gets pegged back like this. In a few years it'll be a one make series for the Honda Civic type R at this rate.

 

[shyVRS245]

Might as well change the reverse grid system and put Mark Blundell in the fastest car, that is guaranteed to slow it down and form a rolling roadblock.

[Copey]

I liked how everyone was saying how slow the subaru was yet it wasn't that far off the astra. They was close. Sutton just carnt pass cleanly to save his life 

[Paul007]

Fact is that three into one doesn't go. Sutton was on the outside and was never going to make the corner. I'll admit that JP's move on Smiley was not quite as smiley as it should have been, but that penalty is just rubbish. 

[camelspyyder]

34 minutes ago, Copey said:

I liked how everyone was saying how slow the subaru was yet it wasn't that far off the astra. They was close. Sutton just carnt pass cleanly to save his life 

 

The Astra is slow too. Plato was whining about that as well after the race. Sutton: except when he went side by side through turns 1 and 2 cleanly passing JP on the exit of 3.

 

27 minutes ago, Paul007 said:

Fact is that three into one doesn't go. Sutton was on the outside and was never going to make the corner. I'll admit that JP's move on Smiley was not quite as smiley as it should have been, but that penalty is just rubbish. 

 

Did you not see JP bash Sutton off at turn 4 after being cleanly passed earlier in the lap?

 

 

Edited 5 August, 2019 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

2 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Might as well change the reverse grid system and put Mark Blundell in the fastest car, that is guaranteed to slow it down and form a rolling roadblock.

 

And his car (the Audi) was fast enough to win at Oulton but for a questionable penalty.

 

Edited 5 August, 2019 by camelspyyder

[Paul007]

3 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

 

The Astra is slow too. Plato was whining about that as well after the race.

 

 

Did you not see JP bash Sutton off at turn 4 after being cleanly passed earlier in the lap?

 

 

 

No that was a "racing incident" I think the experts like to call it.

 

[tweenster]

Plato is well passed his best and even that wasn't great, but his arrogance is astonishing! I can't believe he is still earning a living in BTCC. Driving standards in Race 3 were poor although I must say I found myself thoroughly entertained! Proper car crash TV.

[KenONeill]

12 hours ago, Paul007 said:

 

No that was a "racing incident" I think the experts like to call it.

 

So you'd go back to the bad old days of "Super Touring", when Williams built JP a Renault Laguna out of panels that were bent in shunts that he was responsible for? This was reported in Autocar back in the day.

[camelspyyder]

3 hours ago, tweenster said:

Plato is well passed his best and even that wasn't great, but his arrogance is astonishing! I can't believe he is still earning a living in BTCC. Driving standards in Race 3 were poor although I must say I found myself thoroughly entertained! Proper car crash TV.

 

He's won a record 96 BTCC races and a couple of titles. I think his best was mega but it's long gone. 

After Sutton murdered him at Subaru he should have retired to GT's or Porsches like Tim Harvey did. Tim was too slow for BTCC by then but still won 2 Carrera Cup titles.

 

 

Edited 6 August, 2019 by camelspyyder

[Paul007]

As long as Mr Neal is there, I think JP will be as well.

[tweenster]

2 hours ago, Paul007 said:

As long as Mr Neal is there, I think JP will be as well.

Yes, both as bad as each other!

[tweenster]

9 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

 

He's won a record 96 BTCC races and a couple of titles. I think his best was mega but it's long gone. 

After Sutton murdered him at Subaru he should have retired to GT's or Porsches like Tim Harvey did. Tim was too slow for BTCC by then but still won 2 Carrera Cup titles.

 

 

Plato's record is outstanding, but I don't agree that he was 'mega' and he doesn't feature in my Top 3 BTCC drivers (which are Steve Soper, Andy Rouse and (controversially) Alain Menu). His first title came in a weakened series when the Vauxhall was the class of the field, and in 2010 the Chevrolet was (unbelievably because the road car was a dog) the class of field (based on their WTCC racer). Another discussion to be had over a beer sometime I think (if we ever meet!).

[camelspyyder]

21 minutes ago, tweenster said:

Plato's record is outstanding, but I don't agree that he was 'mega' and he doesn't feature in my Top 3 BTCC drivers (which are Steve Soper, Andy Rouse and (controversially) Alain Menu). His first title came in a weakened series when the Vauxhall was the class of the field, and in 2010 the Chevrolet was (unbelievably because the road car was a dog) the class of field (based on their WTCC racer). Another discussion to be had over a beer sometime I think (if we ever meet!).

 

I think Rouse is a great driver but his numbers are flattered by the fact that his second title was inherited due to politics  and his 4th was almost a given since he had the only turbocar in the top division. Cant deny 60 wins though. Also I don't value the multiclass BTCC titles as much as todays. Drivers often gained the championship by entering the weakest of 4 classes and dominating it - Chris Hodgetts or Frank Sytner for instance. Steve Soper is a great driver too but nearly all of his success was outside the UK. Menu won a good title at Renault but his second was that mega million Ford Mondeo v's the privateers season, absolutely zero opposition.much like Toyota vs the poor people at LeMans of late.

 

My top touring car racers that have done BTCC are probably Muller and Priaulx but again their big career successes were elsewhere.

Of the BTCC big 4 in the last 10 years,  Plato won the most races, but Neal, Turk and Flash took 3 titles each. I think Flash became the best of them despite the team favouring Matt for years, but now he's moved on (the world series does pay rather better - Rob Huff never came back to BTCC because he couldn't afford to).

But back to Plato. He brought so many new cars (Toledo Leon Lacetti MG6 Levorg)  to the series. Despite all the development work on them, he was in the championship top 3 something like 13 years out of 14, and his win numbers are massive compared with absolutely anybody else. I think that record stands against anyone, especially since its not difficult to see a pro-Honda bias in the BTCC he was up against during many of those years.